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Ardamírë
Valinor
Jun 26 2013, 2:37pm
Post #2 of 67
(1806 views)
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His scene with Ian Holm is probably my least favorite of AUJ.
"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel
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Imladris18
Lorien
Jun 26 2013, 2:49pm
Post #3 of 67
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I thought it was a nice little touch.
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Jun 26 2013, 3:08pm
Post #5 of 67
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I thought it was awkward, overindulgent, unnecessary, and completely stopped the film dead in it's tracks. I could handle everything else if it meant getting rid of this scene. That's how much it bothers me.
And just so we're clear, it has nothing to do with either of the actors. I loved them in their roles in LOTR, but they were completely out of place in this film.
"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel
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Elessar
Valinor
Jun 26 2013, 3:29pm
Post #6 of 67
(1574 views)
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Would be the case. I really enjoyed that part in AUJ but I am totally ok wit no more.
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sycorax82
Rohan
Jun 26 2013, 3:37pm
Post #7 of 67
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This makes sense, but we'll probably be seeing/hearing Ian Holm again
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While the scene with the two of them probably should have been EE-exclusive, Ian Holm's voice was perfect for the Prologue and hope we get to hear more narration from him at some point. I'm guessing TABA will end with him.
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Jun 26 2013, 3:41pm
Post #8 of 67
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He's got a good voice for it, and the sense of awe and wonder in his voice as he described the fall of Erebor was fantastic.
"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel
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malickfan
Gondor
Jun 26 2013, 4:06pm
Post #9 of 67
(1531 views)
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No offense to Elijah Wood but I found his cameo utterly pointless and a waste of screentime, mind you I'm biased as I never really liked him much as Frodo. Ian Holm though I could see returing in a bridging sequence as a young Frodo is dropped on his doorstep folling the death of his parents (I believe Ryan Gage playing Alfrid was originally cast as Frodo's father) I'm still not sure who was the better Bilbo out of him and Freeman.
Hopefully this will allow more time fro Thorin and Company in DOS and TABA
This is not a very interesting signature is it?
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nhui06
Rivendell
Jun 26 2013, 4:22pm
Post #10 of 67
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I loved his brief appearance in AUJ, but I also loved his exit (going to surprise Gandalf). It was nice to see a familiar face before we dove into our new adventure.
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joec_34
Rivendell
Jun 26 2013, 4:33pm
Post #11 of 67
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It was nice to see a familiar face before we dove into our new adventure.
I agree. The intro helped pull me back into the ME of LOTR on some mental level. It makes sense not to end with a similar epilogue; hopefully it will be some foreboding nod to Sauron back at Barad Dur and his One Ring at Bag End.
"Happy painting and God bless, my friend." - Bob Ross
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Jun 26 2013, 4:53pm
Post #12 of 67
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Ian Holm's appearance was the biggest problem.
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It told all those who were new to the films that:
Bilbo survives
He finishes his adventure in one piece
He returns home
He lives a fairly long healthy and prosperous life afterward.
Which takes any sense of danger out of his character's experiences - which is particularly bad in something that's being presented as an epic tale.
There was an easy way round this - he could still narrate, or even appear in the opening scenes, but not let the audience know who he is. That uncertainty would put back some of the tension in the - so far very not tense - battle and danger scenes, as new audiences would wonder whether the old man at the beginning is Bilbo, or a friend or relative, who's telling a story about how foolish young Bilbo went on an adventure and was never seen again. That approach could have satisfied both LOTR first and Hobbit first people, if done carefully.
Of course that doesn't fit in with the current idea that audiences are so thick that they need everything handed to them on a plate, with 'this way up' printed on it.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Jun 26 2013, 5:05pm
Post #13 of 67
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How many people watching the film have ...
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Read the book, and know Bilbo survives; or have seen The Lord of the Rings film trilogy, and know Bilbo survives?
I'm guessing that's the majority of the audience. The minority probably aren't bothered that they know he survives.
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Imladris18
Lorien
Jun 26 2013, 5:06pm
Post #14 of 67
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At the same time, anyone who knows anything about LotR (films or books) knows that he survives.
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RosieLass
Valinor
Jun 26 2013, 5:08pm
Post #15 of 67
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The Prologue was fine, and it worked for me.
But he has no place in the rest of the films.
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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DanielLB
Immortal
Jun 26 2013, 5:12pm
Post #16 of 67
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While I've been clutching on to straws for a long time, I guess that the Drogo cameo is completely gone now. I know Gage was re-cast as Alfrid, but I was still hoping for a cameo.
Wood/Frodo not appearing I'm not bothered about. Ian Holm will always Bilbo to me - I hope he appears one more time.
(Does that mean that the prologue isn't a bookend scene, since there's only one of them?)
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jun 26 2013, 5:25pm
Post #17 of 67
(1391 views)
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(And agree with everything you've said.)
No offense to Elijah Wood but I found his cameo utterly pointless and a waste of screentime, mind you I'm biased as I never really liked him much as Frodo. Ian Holm though I could see returing in a bridging sequence as a young Frodo is dropped on his doorstep folling the death of his parents (I believe Ryan Gage playing Alfrid was originally cast as Frodo's father) I'm still not sure who was the better Bilbo out of him and Freeman.
Hopefully this will allow more time fro Thorin and Company in DOS and TABA
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Jun 26 2013, 5:29pm
Post #18 of 67
(1413 views)
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When I read the book, at the age of 7 or 8, I had no idea what was going to happen on the next page. Likewise for LOTR. I'm sure that there are many children now, and in the future, who will come to The Hobbit first, knowing nothing about the story. OK, the story is now so famous that it's become part of the folklore, but there is a difference between being vaguely aware of the outcome of a tale, and having it presented to you at the very start.
Also, there's a neat little trick that a lot of people use when they read or watch a story they already know - they pretend to themselves that they don't know the outcome - or choose to forget it. Bunging in the answer at the outset makes that much harder to do.
Anyway, as I pointed out, all that was needed was a tiny change in the script - that would provide enough doubt to keep newcomers guessing a bit.
Plus - you'd be surprised what people don't already know - there was a grown-up 'business man' on the Apprentice the other day who didn't know what a carrot was. Also, some of the Hobbit cast themselves, were completely unfamiliar with the plot of The Hobbit at the start of filming. I doubt that Billy Connolly has a clue what's going on, even after filming.
Read the book, and know Bilbo survives; or have seen The Lord of the Rings film trilogy, and know Bilbo survives? I'm guessing that's the majority of the audience. The minority probably aren't bothered that they know he survives. |
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Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Jun 26 2013, 5:44pm
Post #19 of 67
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what was he doing there in the first place?
Absolutely nothing, i think.
Fan service? Making a comeback for the sake of elijah and memories?
I may appreciate his on screen cameo, but whats his purpose there...
Old Bilbo was enough for me.
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
(This post was edited by Lusitano on Jun 26 2013, 5:44pm)
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malickfan
Gondor
Jun 26 2013, 6:16pm
Post #20 of 67
(1356 views)
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I doubt that Billy Connolly has a clue what's going on, even after filming
'I cannae Understand wha yar saying Mister Jackson...'
In addition to his ignorance/indifference to the book, I seem to remember Connoly saying he had a terrible memory for learnind dialogue. I guess there could be some pretty funny outakes as he tries to get to grips with Khuzdul...
This is not a very interesting signature is it?
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Jun 26 2013, 6:19pm
Post #21 of 67
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And the apparent need to shoehorn in as many references to the LOTR trilogy.
"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Jun 26 2013, 6:21pm
Post #22 of 67
(1358 views)
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It's not always about suspense and the final outcome. Often it's just about the journey. That's why I like to reread or rewatch my favorite stories - because I like the characters and the journey they go on.
"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel
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Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Jun 26 2013, 6:25pm
Post #23 of 67
(1374 views)
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which only shows how little confidence jackson has with TH as a story, and its ability to stand on its own, if hes constantly inserting references to his previous films, IE living in the shadow of them.
Im guessing we might come back to old bilbo, but not to frodo.
Fine by me.
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Jun 26 2013, 6:28pm
Post #24 of 67
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And it could be argued that the Bilbo prologue makes us curious about that journey, not only giving us tantalizing glimpses of things brought back as Frodo rummages through Bilbo;s stuff, but also by presenting us with the contrast of Bilbo and Bag End, 60 years apart. What experiences did Young Bilbo have, that caused him to grow into Old Bilbo and no longer care about his mother's doilies  ?
Not that I am a fan of this scene...I did feel it slowed the start of the movie.
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Jun 26 2013, 6:42pm
Post #25 of 67
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Did you see the article today where Jackson said he's enjoying deviating from the story? That was very disappointing to me, and quite a blow. I wish someone with more faith in the story and the character of Bilbo would have adapted this book.
"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel
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