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romance in middle earth.
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boldog
Rohan


Jun 5 2013, 10:56am

Post #1 of 55 (1076 views)
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romance in middle earth. Can't Post

hey everyone!
I am here asking a question, how many romances were in middlearth for all of its history. there are a lot, so if you can tell them all, your a legend Sly
what are your most favourite and beautiful?
I believe that Beren and Luthien, Idril and tuor, Melian and thingol, and Aragorn and arwen, are by far my favourite and the most popular. the most depressing relationships have to be gwindor and finduilas, Turin and Nienor, Elrond and Celebrian and finduilas and denethor.
what do you think?

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Jun 5 2013, 1:48pm

Post #2 of 55 (700 views)
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They are lovely depictions [In reply to] Can't Post

of adult relationships. That is why they resonant. So here are a couple more:
Sam and Rosie Cotton
Faramir and Eowyn
Celeborn and Galadriel

What you find in most of these romances is the sense of responsibility to each other and to the wider world. Rosie is willing to wait for Sam because Sam has something to do and she honors that commitment. Arwen shows the same patience with Aragorn. I liked that she made his standard for him so that when he went to battle he could have part of her with him.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 5 2013, 2:03pm

Post #3 of 55 (697 views)
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Adult and responsible [In reply to] Can't Post

You said it, IdrilofGondolin. Tolkien isn't writing some teen drama romance.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 5 2013, 2:39pm

Post #4 of 55 (718 views)
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All the romances we know of? [In reply to] Can't Post

Now there's a question. Let's see how many I can remember from heart. No peeking into Wikipedia!

Mutual love, including all established couples and tragic couples that never got their fulfillment:

1. Manwë & Varda
2. Aulë & Yavanna
3. Mandos & Vairë
4. Irmo & Estë
5. Tulkas & Nessa
6. Ossë & Uinen
7. Melian & Thingol
8. Finwë & Míriel
9. Finwë & Indis
10. Fëanor & Nerdanel
11. Fingolfin & Anairë
12. Finarfin & Eärwen
13. Turgon & Eledhwen
14. Aredhel & Eöl
15. Idril & Tuor
16. Finrod & Amarië
17. Aegnor & Andreth
18. Finduilas & Túrin
19. Finduilas & Gwindor (it was initially mutual)
20. Galadriel & Celeborn
21. Lúthien & Beren
22. Dior & Nimloth
23. Eärendil & Elwing
24. Elrond & Celebrían
25. Aldarion & Erendis
26. Húrin & Morwen
27. Barahir & his wife, what's her name again, Eme- something...
28. Amroth & Nimrodel
29. The Gondorian king and Vinugavia/ the Rhovanion princess whose marriage started the Gondorian civil war
30. The Gondorian king and Queen Berúthiel
31. Éomund and his wife who died of grief (counts because we see the aftermath in their children)
32. Éowyn & Faramir
33. Éomer & Lothíriel
34. Denethor & Finduilas
35. Finduilas' maiden who got lost in the White Mountains and married the ancestor of the princes of Dol Amroth
36. Aragorn & Arwen
37. Sam & Rosie
38. Drogo & Primula
39. Bungo & Belladonna
40. Merry & Estella
41. Pippin & Diamond
42. Otho & Lobelia Sackville-Baggins
43. Tom Bomdadil & Goldberry
44. Túrin & Niënor
45. Arathorn & Gilraen

One sided interest:

1. Melkor & Varda
2. Maeglin & Idril
3. Celegorm & Lúthien
4. Gríma & Éowyn
5. Brand & Niënor

What did I miss? What did I get wrong? And who was that lady of the Edain who after Nirnaeth Arnoediad went to die on the Hill of Slain? Was she Huor's wife?

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied

(This post was edited by Faenoriel on Jun 5 2013, 2:46pm)


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 5 2013, 2:42pm

Post #5 of 55 (677 views)
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Huor's wife, Rían. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 5 2013, 2:43pm

Post #6 of 55 (671 views)
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Thanks! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 5 2013, 2:46pm

Post #7 of 55 (664 views)
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No problem! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jun 5 2013, 2:54pm

Post #8 of 55 (676 views)
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Fangorn and Fimbrethil [In reply to] Can't Post

And the Ents and Entwives Heart
Their story is both beautiful and sad.

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


(This post was edited by Aragalen the Green on Jun 5 2013, 3:02pm)


Maciliel
Valinor


Jun 5 2013, 3:21pm

Post #9 of 55 (678 views)
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some more [In reply to] Can't Post

 
melkor & melkor

gollum & the precious

smaug & the treasure of erebor

lobelia & silver spoons

pippin & elevenses


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Arannir
Valinor


Jun 5 2013, 3:38pm

Post #10 of 55 (677 views)
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Arranged Marriage [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
33. Éomer & Lothíriel


Somehow I always pictured that to be an arranged marriage... but of course I have no proof, just a feeling ;)



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


acheron
Gondor


Jun 5 2013, 3:56pm

Post #11 of 55 (678 views)
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I think maybe the most realisticly depicted [In reply to] Can't Post

as I've said before, is Aldarion and Erendis. Kind of depressing I guess, but most Tolkien romances that are depicted in any detail are tragic in some way, aside from Beren and Luthien. Or Sam and Rosie, I guess. And of those, Aldarion and Erendis's is tragic in the most realistic way -- differences not arising from a curse, or an inherent difference in nature (Aragorn and Arwen), but just from a personality difference that you've probably seen among a couple you know.

(Aldarion might disagree, there is a note that he believed the root of their difficulties lay in the fact that Erendis was not from the "line of Elros", but I don't believe him.)

For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much -- the wheel, New York, wars, and so on -- while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man, for precisely the same reasons. -- Douglas Adams


CuriousG
Half-elven


Jun 5 2013, 3:56pm

Post #12 of 55 (653 views)
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*chuckles and grins* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 5 2013, 4:00pm

Post #13 of 55 (654 views)
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Aldarion and Erendis [In reply to] Can't Post

Certainly the most realistic tragedy. I absolutely love that story, because of Tolkien's ability to paint such vivid characters who act like real people. It's not the idealized romance of Beren and Luthien or Aragorn and Arwen. It's the real people you know from down the street or in your own romance. They are the epitome of the real-life failed relationship. So very sad.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




dik-dik
Lorien


Jun 5 2013, 4:04pm

Post #14 of 55 (663 views)
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For each kind of romance I have a different favourite :) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
what are your most favourite and beautiful?
I believe that Beren and Luthien, Idril and tuor, Melian and thingol, and Aragorn and arwen, are by far my favourite and the most popular. the most depressing relationships have to be gwindor and finduilas, Turin and Nienor, Elrond and Celebrian and finduilas and denethor.what do you think?


Except the tragic ones such as Túrin and Nienor, as I don't like tragic endings.
- For the ones that didn't work out in the end, I am intrigued by Fëanor and Nerdanel
- For the bittersweet ones, I'd pick Galadriel and Celeborn
- For the happy ending ones, it's definitely Finrod and Amarië, as I cannot see them not being together after Finrod is released from Mandos - a "through Mandos to find joy" sort of thing ;)
- for the sweet ones, my favourite is Sam and Rosie.
- for the heroic ones, my vote goes to Arwen and Aragorn over Idril and Tuor or Beren and Lúthien
- for the onesided ones, it has to be Gimli's affection for Galadriel

... and my overall favourites are Faramir and Éowyn. :)

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


CuriousG
Half-elven


Jun 5 2013, 4:09pm

Post #15 of 55 (658 views)
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Wow. Repeat: Wow. [In reply to] Can't Post

What awesome memory powers to create such a thorough list, Faenorial!! I'm not sure if Dorlas and his wife would count (I think she got some dialogue but was never named). How about the parents of Aragorn, whose time was brief, or the parents of Gilraen, who both had foresight about her marriage to Arathorn (hubby said Arathorn would die young, wife said a new hope would be born from them, so let them marry anyway).

Thanks for compiling this list!

My favorite is Beren & Luthien, least favorite is Turin and Nienor.


(This post was edited by CuriousG on Jun 5 2013, 4:13pm)


dik-dik
Lorien


Jun 5 2013, 4:10pm

Post #16 of 55 (648 views)
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I agree with Aragalen, Treebeard & Fimbrethil ought be be in the list as well... [In reply to] Can't Post

... their story is moving. Unsure And also the one-sided crush of Gimli for Galadriel, that's incredibly sweet. Evil

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 5 2013, 4:11pm

Post #17 of 55 (647 views)
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The Maedhros & Fingon bromance is by far the best love story in all of fiction. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 5 2013, 4:15pm

Post #18 of 55 (643 views)
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Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

The line between a character and a mere name is sometimes very thin in Legendarium, as is the line between a story of its own and an offhand mention.

I notice now I got many names wrong... Brand is Brandir and so forth... well, you can't remember everything.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Maciliel
Valinor


Jun 5 2013, 4:19pm

Post #19 of 55 (650 views)
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great post : ) [In reply to] Can't Post

 
great post, dik-dik.... i like the way you break down the romances into different types.

i'm curious as to why, for heroic romance, you prefer arwen and aragorn over the others. i have no preference, i think, but would still love to know your reasoning anyway.

i love faramir and eowyn, and -- really -- andreth and aegon needed to get together, because if you look at the gender assignments in all of the elf-edain romances, the male is always edain and the female always eldar. i think that sticks out as contrivance and author construction, and strange in a story landscape that is so realistic otherwise.

i'll also add that i suspect i'm one of the few people who find turin and nienor's story boring (am i allowed to say that in a tolkien forum?). i find turin a bit much, and the whole brother-sister thing does not interest me at all. i also find the story of siegmund and sieglinde boring. turin and nienor's tale is a tragedy, but it doesn't really speak to me in any way.


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 5 2013, 4:25pm

Post #20 of 55 (633 views)
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How could I forget!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Brethil
Half-elven


Jun 5 2013, 4:34pm

Post #21 of 55 (642 views)
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For sheer coolness of name.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Barahir and Emeldir, the man-Hearted, who is so brave and loyal to an equal spouse (I do love when JRRT forays into writing about strong women).

Romantically I think Eowyn and Faramir are a nice melding of two sort of cracked people, that perhaps can mend each other.

Do Ungoliant's and Shelob's romances account as romance or dinner? Or both?

My absolute favorite will of course be your inspired creation, Telpmairo: Brethil and the King Under the Mountain. Wink

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."


CuriousG
Half-elven


Jun 5 2013, 4:38pm

Post #22 of 55 (675 views)
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Random tangent [In reply to] Can't Post

Does Tolkien ever call a man "woman-hearted" or the equivalent? It seems his men are always manly, and many of his women are sorta manly too. Just a random thought over lunch.


Maciliel
Valinor


Jun 5 2013, 4:40pm

Post #23 of 55 (635 views)
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don't think [In reply to] Can't Post

 
don't think i wasn't thinking that, brethil tengwadil! : )

(and was also thinking along similar lines re ungoliant!)


cheers : )

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Brethil
Half-elven


Jun 5 2013, 4:58pm

Post #24 of 55 (636 views)
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One big locker-room? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Does Tolkien ever call a man "woman-hearted" or the equivalent? It seems his men are always manly, and many of his women are sorta manly too. Just a random thought over lunch.




Well, the girly-girls like Arwen I suppose would need their own space...just because I don't like him I can imagine Caranthir screaming a bit like a girl. That would be great, BTW.

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."


Maciliel
Valinor


Jun 5 2013, 5:05pm

Post #25 of 55 (636 views)
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he does often [In reply to] Can't Post

 
ascribe a female character's strong points to a more masculine nature.

1. galadriel
mother name = nerwen (man-maiden).

2. nerdanel
root "ner" = "man"

lots of references to "[insert desirable attribute] as a man."

i can't think of any way he does the reverse... ascribing positive qualities in his male characters to "feminine" qualities (e.g., "elrond was a great and sensitive healer, as great as any elf-woman."). something's lacking there, in the balance. those other comparisons seem a bit like back-handed compliments.

cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo

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