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Brethil
Gondolin
May 22 2013, 2:44pm
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SCOD: Pippin and the Last March of the Ents
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Welcome to the second installment of this week's SCOD!
Here we see Pippin, having quickly thought up a way to get Treebeard involved in the War, of the Ring seeing the Ents begin what may be their last march.
Pippin has a very dramatic character arc in these films, perhaps one of the most dramatic.
Compare this look on his face, and in his eyes, to the Fellowship Pippin asking Aragorn about Second Breakfast.
Do you think PIppin looked this far ahead, to potentially the loss of the Ents, when he took the step to get Treebeard involved?
Is Pip finally catching up to Merry here in terms of understanding the bigger Middle Earth picture? Or does he have more to go?
Enjoy! And any other comments of course are always welcomed! 
Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
May 22 2013, 6:22pm
Post #2 of 9
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Not the last last march into certain death
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Compare this look on his face, and in his eyes, to the Fellowship Pippin asking Aragorn about Second Breakfast.
Pippin has seen the elephant, though he has not as yet seen the oliphaunt.
Do you think PIppin looked this far ahead, to potentially the loss of the Ents, when he took the step to get Treebeard involved?
When has Pippin ever looked this far ahead?
Is Pip finally catching up to Merry here in terms of understanding the bigger Middle Earth picture?
Getting there, but this isn't the last last march into certain death for Pippin.
Or does he have more to go?
He still has to confront his own mortality with the “far green country” scene in ROTK, but I think the final end of his arc is at The Black Gate, when he (and Merry), out of all the Rohirrim, Gondorians, Elves, Dwarves, and Wizards, is the very very first one to follow Aragorn into certain death “For Frodo.”
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I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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Loresilme
Doriath
May 22 2013, 6:48pm
Post #3 of 9
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Is Pip finally catching up to Merry here in terms of understanding the bigger Middle Earth picture? Or does he have more to go?
I think he's on the way, but not there yet. Here particularly he may be remembering Merry's words, "The fires of Isengard will spread. And the woods of Tuckborough and Buckland will burn..." and he's seeing that kind of reality right in front of him. And he may also be reacting to Treebeard personally at this moment, that Treebeard lost friends, and he can relate to that. At this point he may be getting more involved and on his way to a mature understanding, but he's still thinking a simplistic solution will suffice, not realizing yet just how complicated and dire the bigger situation really is. IMO, Pippin doesn't really start growing up and getting the big picture until he's separated from Merry in ROTK.
This is a great cap, especially as it ties into this recent thread. We needed another Pippin Appreciation Post ! You hit it on the head, to compare the Pippin of "Yes, but what about second breakfast?" to this TTT Pippin -- and ultimately, to the ROTK Pippin of "No, Merry, I'm going to take care of you." A very dramatic arc across the three films, indeed.
Thanks for SCOD this week, Brethil!
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Brethil
Gondolin
May 22 2013, 10:57pm
Post #4 of 9
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Or does he have more to go?
He still has to confront his own mortality with the “far green country” scene in ROTK, but I think the final end of his arc is at The Black Gate, when he (and Merry), out of all the Rohirrim, Gondorians, Elves, Dwarves, and Wizards, is the very very first one to follow Aragorn into certain death “For Frodo.”
Indeed he does...this is just that first step along the path for Pippin really, as I think while Merry started out a bit more grounded in the first place Pippin was a bit on a 'Hobbit walking party" for most of the trip. As you say Darkstone, he hasn't ever really thought ahead (past the next meal or mug) - but now he can see that big and dark things may be coming, and he has a part in them.
Maybe the toaster-oven in his head, as it were, has 'dinged' for the first time. 
Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."
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Brethil
Gondolin
May 22 2013, 11:11pm
Post #5 of 9
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Is Pip finally catching up to Merry here in terms of understanding the bigger Middle Earth picture? Or does he have more to go?
I think he's on the way, but not there yet. Here particularly he may be remembering Merry's words, "The fires of Isengard will spread. And the woods of Tuckborough and Buckland will burn..." and he's seeing that kind of reality right in front of him. And he may also be reacting to Treebeard personally at this moment, that Treebeard lost friends, and he can relate to that. At this point he may be getting more involved and on his way to a mature understanding, but he's still thinking a simplistic solution will suffice, not realizing yet just how complicated and dire the bigger situation really is. IMO, Pippin doesn't really start growing up and getting the big picture until he's separated from Merry in ROTK. I think he has taken a step here, but when he is separated from Merry I think he has to grow up very quickly.
This is a great cap, especially as it ties into this recent thread. We needed another Pippin Appreciation Post ! You hit it on the head, to compare the Pippin of "Yes, but what about second breakfast?" to this TTT Pippin -- and ultimately, to the ROTK Pippin of "No, Merry, I'm going to take care of you." A very dramatic arc across the three films, indeed. So true! And as Darkstone posted he becomes the brave warrior of Gondor who follows Aragorn as King, charging the Orcs (without much hope) first among all. Yes, I love that line too, when he finds Merry, they have really come full circle haven't they? I saw the Pippin thread, and as I had really liked this cap I thought it might tie in nicely. He is such a sweet-natured character, even later, after his transformation in the War, and he remains a braver but still adorable Pip. But I agree with much said in that thread, that his arc in the films is very dramatic: that sort of little-village Second Breakfast Pippin (clueless about almost everything, and unable to comprehend how everyone doesn't live like a Hobbit) to here, with that fearful gaze forward and knowing change is coming and that others have things to lose as well as he does. Thanks Loresilme!
Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
May 23 2013, 1:41pm
Post #6 of 9
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As Boyd said in an interview, Pippin doesn't think of heroics or the big picture. To him it's all about his friends. He joins his friends, he follows his friends, he fights for his friends. He is the epitome of shortsightedness, but in a very admirable way.
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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elaen32
Mithlond
May 23 2013, 2:00pm
Post #7 of 9
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I always had a soft spot for Pippin..
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You just want to mother him don't you (well, if you're female )? Pippin starts out not having a clue where he's going or why, in the film (he's definitely a bit more with it in the book). Even after encountering Ringwraiths, fleeing to Rivendell and overhearing talk of a threat to the existence of Middle Earth, he still asks "where are we going?"! More traumas later, including the truely horrifc one of seeing Boromir murdered before Pippin is then carried off by orcs, and Pippin is a little more clued up. But, in true Hobbit fashion, after a good long drink and a sleep, his optimism is back and his insight gone into retirement again. Then, the epiphany when Merry tells him "there won't be a Shire Pippin" and the look on his face is almost heartbreaking as the realisation dawns. However, I always get the impression that by the time Pippin and Merry have seen Treebeard and the Ents decide to go to war, they are back to their old Hobbit optimism again- +oh well, there's a plan now, so everything's OK+ Of course Merry is still always one step ahead of Pippin, I think, until Pippin arrives in Minas Tirith.
And at the end of his coming of age, when he finds Merry and then when the two of them take off behind Aragorn before the Black Gate, well, it would take somebody very hard-hearted not to be affected by this IMHO!!
PS I would have loved to have seen Merry & Pippin taking charge of the Shire in the Battle of Bywater. I always liked the fact that these two and Sam, effectively ended up "ruling" the Shire as the Master of Buckland, the Thain and the Mayor of Hobbiton respectively. So sad that Frodo was not there with them
"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"
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Loresilme
Doriath
May 23 2013, 2:45pm
Post #8 of 9
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"PS I would have loved to have seen Merry & Pippin taking charge of the Shire in the Battle of Bywater. I always liked the fact that these two and Sam, effectively ended up "ruling" the Shire as the Master of Buckland, the Thain and the Mayor of Hobbiton respectively. So sad that Frodo was not there with them."
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I agree, by the end of ROTK even though we've seen them change a great deal, we don't see the change in the way they are regarded by other Hobbits back in the Shire, we don't have any indication of their new standing there. It's one thing for Merry and Pippin to go from sheltered halflings of the Shire to courageous warriors, but another that they go beyond that and become respected leaders back in their own homeland. It would have been great to see that too :).
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Brethil
Gondolin
May 24 2013, 3:29pm
Post #9 of 9
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You are right - It would have been nice
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I know the Scouring in quite another mini-film in itself, (so I understand its elimination, but I sigh!!!) but yes to see them more regarded among their own would have been great; we sort of see them in a vacuum just with each other (though SPJ captured that post-war 'otherness' and distance form everyday life well). I do love that glimpse of Pip and (presumably) Diamond, after he catches the bouquet...a great Pip moment.
And to see Sam as Mayor...and Merry as the Master, in full form. Alas!
Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."
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