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QuackingTroll
Doriath
Mar 17 2013, 7:12pm
Post #2 of 22
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Woah. Wish they expanded on this a bit more in the film
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More things to hope for in EE and other films!
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QuackingTroll
Doriath
Mar 17 2013, 7:45pm
Post #3 of 22
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Interesting that when he talks about the sickness, he doesn't mention the dwarven ring
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Either it's nothing to do with the ring. Or there's a surprise coming regarding the ring. It does play a vital role in the Necromancer's interest in Thrain.
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Mar 17 2013, 7:46pm)
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DarkJackal
Nargothrond
Mar 17 2013, 8:07pm
Post #4 of 22
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We know in the film Thror has it at Erebor (same design as from the LOTR's prologue, so it is surely supposed to be a Ring of Power). Don't know where it may go after that. Can't tell if Thror or Thrain are wearing it at Moria.
The Hobbit Photo Gallery
(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Mar 17 2013, 8:07pm)
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QuackingTroll
Doriath
Mar 17 2013, 8:17pm
Post #5 of 22
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Good to know it's the same design :)
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I also noticed Kili say "we're the youngest so we can see the funnier side" But in the film the Great Goblin points at Oin and says "start with the youngest" ...but I guess the Great Goblin doesn't know everything...
Thanks BTW, for sharing this and taking the time to do screen-caps. 
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Mar 17 2013, 8:20pm)
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IdrilofGondolin
Nargothrond
Mar 17 2013, 8:35pm
Post #6 of 22
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The dwarf rings were something of a disappoint to Sauron. Most rings gave Sauron the power to manipulate the wearer, but Tolkien tells us that the dwarves were untameable by these means. At most the dwarf rings might encourage the baser instincts of greed in the wearer and that is likely what happened to Thror. The dragon sickness was amplified by his possession of a ring.
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DarkJackal
Nargothrond
Mar 17 2013, 9:09pm
Post #7 of 22
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Dwarf ring comparisons, and who is the youngest dwarf
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Here's an image of Noble Collection's dwarf ring made years ago.
And the one from The Hobbit
Who is the youngest between Fili, Kili, and Ori is inconsistent for sure, but most of the movie material supports the Great Goblin, while Appendix A in ROTK says otherwise :)
The Hobbit Photo Gallery
(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Mar 17 2013, 9:15pm)
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ByThorinsBeard
Nargothrond
Mar 17 2013, 9:19pm
Post #8 of 22
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thank you for posting Dark Jackal
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and I agree Quacking Troll, I hope this will appear on the EE blu ray.
Perhaps there will be a scene or two in the EE(s) that explain a bit more about the Durin heirs. I hope so...
"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you anywhere." - Albert Einstein.
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Mar 17 2013, 9:30pm
Post #9 of 22
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I'd been wondering where you were, with your excellent photo shares et al. Glad to see ya.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Mar 17 2013, 9:48pm
Post #10 of 22
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Ah! You noticed that too! And you saying it makes it absolute for me,
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as I know you study a lot more still shots than I do. lol. We know in the film Thror has it at Erebor (same design as from the LOTR's prologue, so it is surely supposed to be a Ring of Power). Don't know where it may go after that. Can't tell if Thror or Thrain are wearing it at Moria.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Mar 17 2013, 9:53pm
Post #11 of 22
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The Malice of Sauron and related ill luck seemed also to follow the bearers.
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They were far more susceptible to greed and wrath over greed (like the dragon sickness), to the point of folly bordering on madness (Thror's venture to Moria or, in the film, attempt to reclaim it, Thrain's wandering towards Erebor etc). And ill luck followed the bearers. . . The Balrog slew Durin and Nain, the gold the Ring amassed drew the attention of Dragons, from the cold Drake that slew Dain I to Smaug The Magnificient, and the long hunting and misfortune of Thrain etc. The dwarf rings were something of a disappoint to Sauron. Most rings gave Sauron the power to manipulate the wearer, but Tolkien tells us that the dwarves were untameable by these means. At most the dwarf rings might encourage the baser instincts of greed in the wearer and that is likely what happened to Thror. The dragon sickness was amplified by his possession of a ring.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Mar 17 2013, 10:06pm
Post #12 of 22
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Durin and his heirs. . . part of what has me stuck on this Balrog business. lol
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It is true though. Loved the lineage they showed, as in the appendices, from Durin to Fili and Kili in unbroken chain of decent. Durin is THE Dwarf. the Father of the House and Eldest/most venerable of the race. It is hugely significant that Durin (Durin's House, Durin's Heir, Durin's Line, Durin's Beard) is slain by The Balrog, who desecrates Khazad-Dum and sends its people into exile (scaring much of Lothlorien's Elf population to flight as well), leaves it open to the invading orcs, makes it impossible for the dwarves to reclaim it, and remains there as a master of terror until Gandalf arrives. In these films, so heavily focused on The Dwarves and their history, and also now serving as connectors to the other films in what is to be a larger series, I very much hope that this essential piece of Dwarven history at least gets a mention, and certainly that they point out in this next film the relationship of Thorin to his nephews. It really surprised me that it wasn't mentioned in the first film. It could have been managed as easily as establishing Balin (another Moria connection) and Dwalin as brothers. More things to hope for in EE and other films!
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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DarkJackal
Nargothrond
Mar 17 2013, 10:28pm
Post #13 of 22
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Of course I said "surely" it must be a ring of power because the design is the same, but I suppose there's a chance it isn't, and Thror just likes that design. But if it is, then it would be going against the mention in Appendix A that the dwarves keep it secret until their deathbed, and pass it on only then (or when they think they aren't coming back from a mad mission). But that would be a small change compared to many already made.
The Hobbit Photo Gallery
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Mar 17 2013, 10:40pm
Post #14 of 22
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There is always the hiding in plain sight argument.
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Amidst the other heirloom rings upon his finger, it could go unnoticed easily enough, especially if only members of the king's own extended royal family knew of it. And even they might assume he would not wear it openly (The Elf Rings couldn't be seen by average eyes, even when they were worn, unless the wearer willed it), and thus would not imagine that it was one of the several rings displayed on his fingers.
Better, in terms of lore adherence, that he have the Ring in sight on his finger than that he not have it at all. Also, to go through the trouble of making it identical to the previously featured Dwarf Rings only for it to be a big "Psych, it is just an imitation Thror had made", would be apallingly poor humour. lol Of course I said "surely" it must be a ring of power because the design is the same, but I suppose there's a chance it isn't, and Thror just likes that design. But if it is, then it would be going against the mention in Appendix A that the dwarves keep it secret until their deathbed, and pass it on only then (or when they think they aren't coming back from a mad mission). But that would be a small change compared to many already made.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Mar 17 2013, 10:43pm)
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TheSexyBeard
Menegroth
Mar 17 2013, 11:18pm
Post #15 of 22
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Thanks for the link, quite an interesting article. Props on the screen grabs as well, there some of the best shots of Thrain we probably have now. Anyone notice He seems to be struck in the back whilst fighting? Maybe that's how he gets captured.
Found this image pretty cool; http://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/untitled-72.png
It's father, son and grandson fighting side by side, I missed that in the movie.
Yes, my username is terrible.
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marillaraina
Nargothrond
Mar 18 2013, 12:47am
Post #16 of 22
(1137 views)
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I also noticed Kili say "we're the youngest so we can see the funnier side" But in the film the Great Goblin points at Oin and says "start with the youngest" ...but I guess the Great Goblin doesn't know everything... Thanks BTW, for sharing this and taking the time to do screen-caps.
I just think it's weird to make Ori the youngest, when he doesn't even LOOK the youngest. I know Adam Brown is younger than Dean O Gorman but in the film I still think both Kili and Fili look younger than Ori. It's almost like they finished filming and Peter came up with the not-so-bright idea of "hey why don't we make Ori the youngest?". I mean all they'd have to do is edit in a shot they probably already had of his looking frightened and boom, he's the youngest.
And how would the Great Goblin know who the youngest was anyway? I sincerely doubt he'd settle on Ori if he was trying to guess, Kili has so little facial hair he'd be the natural assumption for any "outsider". I can only assume it was his death glare, lol, and relative calm during that situation that would have caused the Goblin King to pass over him, might have made him appear more experienced thus older than a perhaps more nervous Ori.
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Old Toby
Hithlum
Mar 18 2013, 5:36am
Post #17 of 22
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I really enjoyed watching this!
"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)
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Roheryn
Dor-Lomin
Mar 18 2013, 8:46am
Post #18 of 22
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I love hearing the actors describe the relationships between Fili, Kili, and Thorin. Particularly where RA says Thorin can't really be a father to them -- but that he does try. I would bet that that weight sits heavily on Thorin's shoulders too, wanting to be (or thinking he ought to be) a better father to them, but unable to do so given the other burdens he carries. I so can't wait to see their relationships developed more, hopefully in the EE but also in DOS and TABA. I really hope PJ gives us these character moments, and quite a few more of them than we got in AUJ. The end of TABA is going to be so hard to watch. *sniffle*
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Arthael
Menegroth
Mar 18 2013, 3:22pm
Post #19 of 22
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So much to look forward to in the EE, I hope Jackson has the good sense to put it in! I can understand why he may have cut some of the Thorin/Kili/Fili stuff from the theatrical, as the movie is about Bilbo's story, but fleshing that out on the DVD will be perfect. I can't wait!
"There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go."
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namarie
Nargothrond
Mar 18 2013, 4:11pm
Post #20 of 22
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I really, really want to see that piece of dialogue
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between Fili and Thorin in the AUJ EE edition. I hope they will not let it out.
Also in the Bag End scene when Kili and Fili arrive, they show Fili giving his weapons to Bilbo but they don't show Kili giving him his weapons even though Bilbo is already carrying them.
I hope they will show this too in the EE.
Thanks for the video and screencaps D.J.
“The world is not in your books and maps. It's out there!”
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Mar 18 2013, 4:25pm
Post #21 of 22
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Technically, neither Thror nor Thrain would have had the dragon-sickness
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The dragon-sickness was a malady/curse associated with coming into direct contact with a dragon's hoard. As others have noted, though, the effect of the Dwarven Ring of Power on its bearer fostered a greed that was probably just an intense, if more general in nature.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Silmaril
Nargothrond
Mar 18 2013, 7:25pm
Post #22 of 22
(885 views)
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Love such documentaries. Put it on disc WB!!!
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i want more of this stuff!
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