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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Erebor theme in LotR

Turnip Head

Feb 1 2013, 7:10pm

Post #1 of 20 (3078 views)
Erebor theme in LotR Can't Post

I'm watching RotK now and one can clearly hear the Erebor theme playing as Sam is looking down at Frodo's body after he is stung by Shelob. It's probably just coincidence since the scene has nothing at all to do with the Lonely Mountain, but it makes me wonder if Howard Shore liked the arrangement and decided to reuse it for something grander.


Feb 1 2013, 7:29pm

Post #2 of 20 (2031 views)
Here is what Doug Adam's book has to say: [In reply to] Can't Post

about that moment:

"Sam weeps while elegiac strings and cor anglais mourn his loss, the Shire theme in E minor stained by the hobbit's tears."
(p 317, "The Music of the Lord of the Rings Films")

Perhaps someone here on the boards with musical knowledge can enlighten us with an analysis of the Erebor theme in relation to an E minor version of the Shire theme.


Feb 1 2013, 8:00pm

Post #3 of 20 (1941 views)
It's not the Erebor theme... [In reply to] Can't Post

However, it's a little similar to Thorin's theme when he enters Bag End- which is a mix of the Erebor and Shire theme, which is explained by Adams in that it was done to show how Bilbo gives Thorin hope that he may succeed in his quest. I hear more of a lonely shire them in the music when Sam finds Frodo, but I heard a few notes that sound similar (but only for a few seconds).


Feb 1 2013, 11:43pm

Post #4 of 20 (1746 views)
I have a feeling 'Erebor' won't be heard in the films at all [In reply to] Can't Post

It just doesn't seem to fit with any imagery of Erebor or the Dwarves we've seen, and I'm guessing PJ agrees.


Feb 1 2013, 11:58pm

Post #5 of 20 (1731 views)
I was disappointed [In reply to] Can't Post

...that the majestic Dwarrowdelf theme hasn't been used. I wonder if it will crop up later.


Feb 2 2013, 12:46am

Post #6 of 20 (1678 views)
Hmm [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess it's because "Dwarrowdelf" is about Moria, and The Hobbit movie(s) have not ventured there. Yet.

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Feb 2 2013, 1:27am

Post #7 of 20 (1673 views)
you're right, I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a quote from this scene that is nearly identical to some music heard in AUJ. I could be totally off base, but I believe the theme in question is chiefly related to Thorin. As somebody has already mentioned, it plays as Thorin enters Bag End, and I believe it also plays (in a very heroic, epic manner) in the prologue scene as Thorin leads the dwarves into battle against Smaug. It appears in other places in AUJ, no doubt.

I don't think there is any significance, just a coincidence. I think I read somewhere (on Doug Adams' site), that Thorin's theme and Bilbo's theme are supposed to be linked. Bilbo's theme is a variation on Shire themes, just like the music heard during the Shelob scene is a variant on Shire themes. Maybe that has something to do with it.


Feb 2 2013, 2:52am

Post #8 of 20 (1642 views)
Isn't it weird [In reply to] Can't Post

to have music on a soundtrack that isn't in the films? I thought the point of soundtracks was so that fans could own the music from what they heard in the films.

I honestly don't know if this a common practice but I can't recall such a thing before.

It's also weird because I much prefer the songs of the soundtrack to what was actually used in the film (particularly for Thorin and Azog's showdown at the end.)

Davy Jones could've been Bilbo...I mean he was a Brit with a sense for adventure, singing & dancing. And think of the costs it would've save with forced perspective: he was ACTUALLY 5'3. He also hung out with a grumpy tall dude in a hat (Mike Nesmith.) While we're at it let's just have Micky Dolenz and Peter Tork as Merry & Pippin.

(This post was edited by hutch on Feb 2 2013, 2:53am)


Feb 2 2013, 3:03am

Post #9 of 20 (1624 views)
Yeah I agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

It is very weird. I agree that there are a lot of soundtracks that were better in OST, but I think it sorta balances out with some of the other songs. The eagle rescue song, for instance IMO is much better than the one in the soundtrack.

"I have found it is in the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keep the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I am afraid, and he gives me courage." - Gandalf the Grey.

"Do not be afraid Mithrandir. You are not alone. If ever you should need my help, I will come." -Lady Galadriel.

Turnip Head

Feb 2 2013, 5:37am

Post #10 of 20 (1607 views)
Oh [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't have the soundtrack, so I assumed it was the theme for Erebor since it seems to be heard every time the Lonely Mountain is mentioned or seen. My bad.


Feb 2 2013, 6:07am

Post #11 of 20 (1571 views)
No problem :) [In reply to] Can't Post

It's quite complex without the notes. Erabor's theme is at the end of the extended soundtrack- it's very regal sounding.


Feb 2 2013, 10:02am

Post #12 of 20 (1824 views)
Erebor theme [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually the Erebor theme is that heard when we first see Erebor in the film, and which plays repeatedly throughout, often accompanying Thorin's theme.

The track 'Erebor' is somewhat different. I have seen it interpreted as a heroic statement of 'Bilbo's Adventure', which we first hear in 'The World Ahead'. That track also contains a brief passage very similar to part of 'Erebor'. I hope beyond hope that we hear at least some of 'Erebor' in the films at some point though I fear this may have been an alternative main theme for the company, perhaps not intended to feature in its current form.

Tol Eressea

Feb 2 2013, 12:32pm

Post #13 of 20 (1524 views)
indeed. No moria though.... I am hoping for it though, yep // [In reply to] Can't Post


--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--

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Tol Eressea

Feb 2 2013, 4:37pm

Post #14 of 20 (1515 views)
agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

the soundtrack version of the showdown between ugly face and the hot dwarf is much better and feels appropriate.

On a related note, did anybody catch the little music that plays when Gandalf visits bilbo in the beginning of the fellowship and picks up the map? I did Smile

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

Lily Fairbairn

Feb 2 2013, 6:49pm

Post #15 of 20 (1457 views)
Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

It's the same "map music" we hear in FotR. I expect this theme to be developed further once we actually get to the Lonely Mountain.

Addressing the thread in general, not just your specific question, I've been listening to the special edition soundtracks with great pleasure---and with several little starts of recognition when a particular phrase reminds me of a similar moment in the LotR soundtracks.

I don't mean the deliberately repeated themes, like the Rivendell theme or the Hobbit theme, or even the brief snatches of familiar melody such as the militant elf music when the elves appear to chase away the wargs and orcs. I mean just a few notes, or the treatment of those few notes, which my semi-conscious mind will continue with some theme from LotR only to have the soundtrack go off in another direction.

It's just a bit disorienting at times. Tongue


Feb 2 2013, 8:44pm

Post #16 of 20 (1444 views)
I think they are just there for fun [In reply to] Can't Post

Often bands will include demos and b-sides as bonus tracks on their album and the extra tracks on The Hobbit OST are just that. I think they are great and provide a little insight into Shore's process even if they don't end up in the movie.

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas

Tol Eressea

Feb 3 2013, 2:48pm

Post #17 of 20 (1372 views)
I got chills when i heard it. [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with you. I experience the same thing. All over the soundtrack. This soundtrack shall require months of listenig to. Wink

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Feb 3 2013, 3:49pm

Post #18 of 20 (1375 views)
I absolutely love this soundtrack... [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a rather long drive to and from work (45-90 minutes each way depending on traffic) and I can listen to it the entire way (there and back again, haha) and again in the evening at home. Before LOTR, I'd never felt like my soul had been enchanted by any music. But it was then. And again by the music from the first two Narnia movies. And now, more than ever by The Hobbit. I can't explain it. It's just captivating. It never gets old. I can listen to the same song 10 times in a row and it's just as magical to my ears as it was the first time I heard it.

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:

Tol Eressea

Feb 3 2013, 5:21pm

Post #19 of 20 (1359 views)
Indeed [In reply to] Can't Post

how many songs and music that after youve hear them a million times, still have a hold and magic over you?

Foundations of stone gave me the chills the other day.

One of the best elements of these movies is the music.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

Tol Eressea

Feb 3 2013, 5:33pm

Post #20 of 20 (1920 views)
Shall i bite you? [In reply to] Can't Post


Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


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