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Intergalactic Lawman
Nargothrond
Jan 5 2013, 10:05pm
Post #1 of 17
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Where are Azog and his wolf pack from??
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Question... Where are Azog and his wolf pack from?
The Wargs are from Gundabad...we know that. "Those are Gundabad Wargs" -Gandalf
Now the first we see of Azog he is at Moria, and then we see him carried back inside after getting injured by Thorin. The dwarves win that battle -but they do not retake Moria. So I assume he stays at Moria...?
The reason I ask is that Elrond refers to the orcs that they confront as "Orcs from the south" ...so they must be still living in Moria? Gundabad is clearly to the north and Moria to the south.
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YaznegSouth40
Ossiriand
Jan 5 2013, 10:19pm
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Gundabad originally I believe ....but during the time of the War versus the dwarves Azog had moved into Moria. His son Bolg I believe is at Dol Guldur until the time of the Battle of Five Armies he goes to the orc stronghold at Gundabad where he can gather the largest colonies of orcs and march to battle.
(This post was edited by YaznegSouth40 on Jan 5 2013, 10:22pm)
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Jan 5 2013, 10:51pm
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Perhaps this is a movie error?
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Wouldn't be the first time an Elf got their geography wrong in PJ's movies!
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MouthofSauron
Dor-Lomin
Jan 5 2013, 11:20pm
Post #4 of 17
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i thought bolg was at gundabad?
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dol-guldur didn't seem very occupied when radagast went there.
take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty, oh will you please take me home!!
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Roheryn
Dor-Lomin
Jan 5 2013, 11:32pm
Post #5 of 17
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Azog clearly has good taste in Wargs.
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I figured from Gandalf's comment "But these are Gundabad Wargs!" that there must be a number of different breeds of Wargs -- which, as an aside, suggests the Orcs must be breeding them for particular traits, which in turn suggests a whole 'nother aspect of Orc culture I'd never thought about. So maybe the Dol Guldur Wargs are bred for extra nastiness, and Moria Orcs are bred for maneuverability in tight dark places, and Gundabad Wargs are the thoroughbreds of the Warg world: lean mean running machines. So Azog need not be from Gundabad himself; he's just selected his stable of Wargs from there.
Just my idle speculation. 
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Vaire
Lindon
Jan 6 2013, 12:03am
Post #6 of 17
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When Balin is describing the battle, he does refer to Azog as a "Gundabad orc".
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Retro315
Ossiriand
Jan 6 2013, 1:08am
Post #7 of 17
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Gundabad definitely seems to be used (fairly and logically, I think) to indicate a 'northern origin'. The Gundabad-based Wargs are more wolf-like, and I guess that would make the previous Wargs of TLOTR "Southern" or "Mordor Wargs", which would explain their hyena-appearance. Gandalf knew they must have come from Gundabad because that location was the capitol of Orc-kind and pretty much the only place they could send a party into Eriador from (Angmar/Gundabad/Ettenmoors).
And Azog is a Gundabad Orc. But Azog's white Warg Chieftain is also different from the G. Wargs, so perhaps it's from even further north? (Forodwaith? Utumno?!) or more likely, I think, it is a holdout, a last survivor of the special breed of white wolves that The Witch-king loosed upon Arnor during the Angmar Wars. (I think there are absolute ties being established between the Northern Orcs and The Witch-king, and bolstering 'His' reputation by making him the perceived threat (and maybe 'believed to be Necromancer') will actually help build Sauron's reputation in the long run, if his chief servant is regarded as a potential Enemy-to-All.
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Oin's parasite
Ossiriand
Jan 6 2013, 1:37am
Post #8 of 17
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That Peter Jackson made Gundabad orcs the mega-orcs of Middle Earth. Besides Azog (whom is the most dangerous and titanic Orc we have seen in all the films) all the other orcs we saw at the gates of Khazad-Dum were HUGE, and looked like they could mop the floor with any Mordor or Isengard Orc/Uruk-hai.
"I have parasites as big as me arm!"
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Aitieuriskon
Menegroth
Jan 6 2013, 1:57am
Post #10 of 17
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They did come from the south (at least at the moment the elves encountered them)
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The hunting party was following the dwarves. The dwarves were approaching Rivendell from the South. Ergo, the elves did indeed disburse an orc pack which was approaching from the South. Where they originally came from is seemingly insignificant to Elrond, who seemed to side with Saruman in the "orc-pack not a big deal" argument.
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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Oin's parasite
Ossiriand
Jan 6 2013, 1:59am
Post #11 of 17
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Lots of people keep saying that but...
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I think it is just another Orc with a beard...
"I have parasites as big as me arm!"
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triptrap
Menegroth
Jan 6 2013, 11:41am
Post #12 of 17
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i guess the reason is found in elrond not caring much about the orc pack's "political" background. they came from the south to attack the dwarves, but it isn't important where they originated from or who rules them etc.
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triptrap
Menegroth
Jan 6 2013, 11:49am
Post #13 of 17
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That Peter Jackson made Gundabad orcs the mega-orcs of Middle Earth. Besides Azog (whom is the most dangerous and titanic Orc we have seen in all the films) all the other orcs we saw at the gates of Khazad-Dum were HUGE, and looked like they could mop the floor with any Mordor or Isengard Orc/Uruk-hai. they are not the mega-orcs of middle-earth at all. most of them were hardly or only little bigger and taller than dwarves. and their weapons and armor were completely primitive(being mostly fur). no comparison to the heavily armored gorgoroth troops or uruk-hai of helms-deep. i hope desperately that the one's we're going to see in BOFA are bigger bad-asses
(This post was edited by triptrap on Jan 6 2013, 11:51am)
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Aitieuriskon
Menegroth
Jan 6 2013, 4:09pm
Post #14 of 17
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There were definitely some more large "pale orcs" in the background chaos of the Azanulbizar sequence. I think we will definitely see more of them in the next two films, though I think the hunter-orc type will continue to be more common (as they should be - we can't have Middle Earth rife with uber-orcs, it would detract from Saruman's orc-breeding scenes in TTT)
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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triptrap
Menegroth
Jan 6 2013, 4:13pm
Post #15 of 17
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and they should give them some more decent clothing, cause the weird bone and fur stuff in the movie didn't do it for me
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YaznegSouth40
Ossiriand
Jan 6 2013, 7:16pm
Post #16 of 17
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something serious in comparison to the "hyenas" from TTT! That huge white warg is AWESOME and a match for Azog to stride into battle on! I hope the Bridge Direct does a figure of them as a beast pack..that would be a must have! I like the striping on the white warg as well! The white warg seems to be more ferocious as well!
(This post was edited by YaznegSouth40 on Jan 6 2013, 7:17pm)
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Jan 7 2013, 12:16am
Post #17 of 17
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The Official Visual Companion to the movie states, in keeping with the novel, that the Wargs
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of The Hobbit are an independent, evil race/can, of wicked, demonic wolves. They aid the orcs out of mutual wickedness but are not of the orcs specific breeding, though the Gundabad line does suggest otherwise. Though not necessarily. They might just be from the region surrounding Gundabad. I figured from Gandalf's comment "But these are Gundabad Wargs!" that there must be a number of different breeds of Wargs -- which, as an aside, suggests the Orcs must be breeding them for particular traits, which in turn suggests a whole 'nother aspect of Orc culture I'd never thought about. So maybe the Dol Guldur Wargs are bred for extra nastiness, and Moria Orcs are bred for maneuverability in tight dark places, and Gundabad Wargs are the thoroughbreds of the Warg world: lean mean running machines. So Azog need not be from Gundabad himself; he's just selected his stable of Wargs from there. Just my idle speculation.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Oh and while we are on the subject of Bolg...I noticed that Sharku (leader of the Warg riders from TTT) has similar leather straps on his face to those of Bolg! 