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Silmaril
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 9:08am
Post #1 of 57
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Any comment from Guillermo Del Toro on AUJ?
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did he watch the movie? what does he think about it? is anything of his work in the finished film? what would be different in his version?
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awepittance
Lindon
Dec 28 2012, 9:27am
Post #2 of 57
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i have no useful information about this
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but i can't help but feel like there might be a little bit of bad blood between him and Peter now. You would think he would have commented on the film already, especially since he has a writing credit.
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 28 2012, 10:00am
Post #4 of 57
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Let's face it, if he raved about it we'd have people saying "You can't trust what he says, he has to say that" and if he criticized anything, we'd have people saying "See, he hates it and thinks PJ ruined it!"
I think Guillermo is too wise to the ways of fandom and the media, as well as too much the gentleman, to put himself in the position of feeding into inevitable controversy. If he ever says anything, I think he'll be extremely careful about it.
Silverlode
(This post was edited by Silverlode on Dec 28 2012, 10:01am)
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awepittance
Lindon
Dec 28 2012, 10:08am
Post #5 of 57
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just a theory, i have no evidence to support my claim
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but I am surprised he hasn't said a single thing about the final product or the trailers before it was finished. I mean... has he? I'm not really up to date on these things, if he has commented/said *anything* on it I'm curious what he said.
I think you're right about the gentlemen thing as well, even if he was asked about he would probably find a way to respond completely neutrally (regardless of how he may or may not actually feel).
the last time i saw him do a casual Q&A interview was for the pacific rim screening at BNAT by aintitcoolnews, i don't remember harry or any of the fans asking him about The Hobbit.
(This post was edited by awepittance on Dec 28 2012, 10:11am)
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jtarkey
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 11:29am
Post #6 of 57
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It's certainly Odd that he hasn't said anything...
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If he wanted to be neutral, he could have mentioned that he saw it and enjoyed it...
I can't help but feel his version would have been totally different. He stated that he wanted to revolutionize animatronics in the same way LOTR revolutionized CGI. Obviously, pretty much the exact opposite was present in AUJ. CGI all over the place.
I have a strange feeling that there may be some hard feelings there. Not everything is professional and rosy in the world of film. We can really never know either way, unless GDT comments on the film. It can't hurt to speculate though.
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"
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dormouse
Gondolin
Dec 28 2012, 11:30am
Post #7 of 57
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If it's just your idea, with no evidence to support it...
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... which it is, then really it would be kinder and wiser not to say it at all. Why try to imagine trouble where none exists?
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jtarkey
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 11:37am
Post #8 of 57
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You don't know that trouble doesn't exist. No one outside of the production can ever have any idea, save if someone from the production mentions something. It's clear that GDT would have loved to direct these films. He put a lot of hard work into them before departing. I'm sure he has some sadness regarding what happened to a production that was supposed to be his.
Whether or not any of those feelings are directed towards PJ is up in the air. However, he's certainly wasn't thinking "it's so awesome that I don't have to work on these films anymore".
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"
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painjoiker
Hithlum
Dec 28 2012, 11:39am
Post #9 of 57
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Always you must meddle. Looking for trouble where none exists.
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Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse
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jtarkey
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 11:43am
Post #10 of 57
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I'm still waiting for the Thranduil meme to gain popularity (a GIF of him turining away from erebor with the text "aint nobody got time for that". Love it.
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"
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sharpened_graphite
Ossiriand
Dec 28 2012, 12:43pm
Post #11 of 57
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I think that GDT refrains to comment on the Hobbit...
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...because when you have worked on something for so long, you can't look at it with an unbiased view. It's difficult to enjoy something that's so very different from your own vision (for that matter, many of the problems I have with the movie come down to the fact that it doesn't match the version of the Hobbit I have in my head). And I suspect that Guillermo's opinion on the movie would be summed up to the fact that he'd do everything differently.
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stoutfiles
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 1:49pm
Post #12 of 57
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He stated that he wanted to revolutionize animatronics in the same way LOTR revolutionized CGI.
Now I really wish del Toro had directed.
“I would love to have seen the films Guillermo would have made,” Philipa Boyens says frankly. “It would have been amazing. And he certainly helped us by bringing fresh eyes to the Middle-earth because, of course, the biggest issue was making sure we weren’t remaking ‘Lord of the Rings."
Oh well.
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sycorax82
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 1:58pm
Post #13 of 57
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I still believe he walked away because he knew it would never fully be his vision
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I don't think he would have been able to make the movie he wanted to make. Studio pressure about 3D etc. and also a general reluctance all round around practical effects. I just wonder whether the studios were unhappy with the direction he was taking, with them wanting the films to be as similar to LOTR as possible, for familiarity.
Then there's the fact of Peter, Fran and Philippa in the background, having their say...
Ever since he had been announced as director I wondered how the heck it was going to work. Turns out, it didn't...and I don't believe that he had to leave simply because of the delays.
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BeornBerserker
Menegroth
Dec 28 2012, 2:23pm
Post #14 of 57
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Directors even in pre-production probably have a job that is near 24/7 and certainly it would be after production starts. At the point he backed away he had been on the project 2 years and still no green light. I think he lives in L.A. and I would imagine there is a limit to how much of your life you are willing to live away from with home(NZ half a world away) without a firm timeline and all the while bypassing other projects.
(This post was edited by BeornBerserker on Dec 28 2012, 2:27pm)
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Êleniel Tindome
Ossiriand
Dec 28 2012, 2:37pm
Post #15 of 57
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Its a shame that we dont have del Toros Animatronics. Now that I read the quote again it comes in to my mind, who wonderful animatronicswould have worked out for that movie which is spoiled with all the CGI in it.
(This post was edited by Êleniel Tindome on Dec 28 2012, 2:38pm)
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jimmyfenn
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 2:48pm
Post #16 of 57
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aside from presuming that del toro secretly hates peter jackson ! ( give me strength)
i personally feel the whole del toro vibe wouldnt have worked for me in the hobbit. though i love his style i think having the jarry mechanical puppetry type look would have lost the hobbits 'real' fantasy vibe.
on a side note pacific rim looks terrible, i could be wrong.
"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro
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Lindele
Mithlond
Dec 28 2012, 2:51pm
Post #17 of 57
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disagree more.
animatronics = cheesy and fake. way more so than CGI.
PJ was always the man for the job and del Toro's involvement was nothing than a quick influence on the story.
Thank God for his decision to leave.
Don't get me wrong, I like del Toro as much as anyone, but these are not his films.
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sharpened_graphite
Ossiriand
Dec 28 2012, 2:51pm
Post #18 of 57
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Actually GDT's approach is a mixture of both!
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Animatronics and suits provide the foundation while CGI is used to erase seams and add particle effecs such as dripping saliva and such. They both cover each other's weaknesses and what you get is something that's beyond either of the mediums alone.
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stoutfiles
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 2:52pm
Post #19 of 57
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Personally the "in-your-face video game CGI" takes me out of the movie, most notably at Goblin Town and the stone giant scene. That's just me, though.
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sharpened_graphite
Ossiriand
Dec 28 2012, 2:57pm
Post #20 of 57
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I'd argue that CGI under GDT's supervision is much better than Peter's.
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See the Golden Army and The Elemental in Hellboy 2, both completely CGI and both blow away everything in the Hobbit, and that's on a budget that's only around one fourth of the Hobbit's.
I love Peter's movies and I still think the effects in the Hobbit to be great, but in my opinion Guillermo has a better eye for what makes the marvellous appear real.
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jimmyfenn
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 2:58pm
Post #21 of 57
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saying that, i would still quite like have seen a full on puppet fest in the same vein as dark cyrstal/ labyrinth style. id be up for that!
"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro
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Êleniel Tindome
Ossiriand
Dec 28 2012, 3:01pm
Post #22 of 57
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Exactly - would have been great
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Animatronics and suits provide the foundation while CGI is used to erase seams and add particle effecs such as dripping saliva and such. They both cover each other's weaknesses and what you get is something that's beyond either of the mediums alone.
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stoutfiles
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 3:11pm
Post #23 of 57
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Can you name a del Toro movie that is "cheesy and fake"? I feel like you're imagining animatronics used in older theme parks and older movies. Animatronics are way more advanced than that, they just aren't used as much because total CGI is easier. Just ask George Lucas, he never had to leave his chair.
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unexpectedvisitor
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 3:24pm
Post #24 of 57
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the director has a very modest role in terms of the quality of CG in the movie, but GDT hasn't made a single movie with better CG than AUJ (or King Kong, for that matter). the examples you give may have been the best CG in that movie, but none even come close to the CG used for Gollum, and there are as many if not more examples of poor CG in that or any of GDT's movies than there are in AUJ.
in fact, if the trailer's anything to go by, GDT's new movie Pacific Rim looks to have considerably worse CG than AUJ. of course that stuff may be cleaned up a lot before the movie arrives but yeah, no, GDT's movies do not have better CG than PJ's.
it's fine if you don't like CG, that's just a matter of personal preference, but now we're venturing into the realm of ridiculous claims. Weta Digital is probably the best visual effects company in the world not named ILM and Pete's movies have consistently pushed the envelope of what digital images can look like and do, ever since The Frighteners.
for all those continuing to complain about the CG, it is a tool that the filmmakers use when they feel that is the best way to achieve a certain result. i've seen some hating on the CG here that basically boils down to "i don't like CG because it's CG" or "it doesn't look 100% real" (well, neither would the other techniques). a live-action LotR wasn't possible (at least not in a good way) without CG. i also have seen a lot of comments on here acting like Pete ditched all the sets and art direction and practical effects and NZ landscape shots in favor of CG...and that's simply not true. there is still a ton of all the "real" stuff involved with this movie.
opinions are subjective but people have started to complain about anything and everything when it comes to this movie and when they start dissing the technical aspects of the film...well, that gets my goat, because those are things that can be evaluated at a technical level, and the technical acumen of this film is as good as i've ever seen.
(This post was edited by unexpectedvisitor on Dec 28 2012, 3:26pm)
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unexpectedvisitor
Nargothrond
Dec 28 2012, 3:33pm
Post #25 of 57
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would absolutely not have worked for the Trolls, Gollum, the Eagles, the wider shots of Smaug, the Wargs in motion (and the close-ups of the Wargs being relatively still on Weathertop felt as real as animatronics would have), the stone giants, the list goes on and on.
could have worked for the Goblin King. a guy in make-up would have been better than animatronics for Azog.
but, yeah, the Goblin King is really the only CG character in the film you could make an animatronics argument for. i thought he was perfect, as is, though.
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