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Altaira
Superuser
Dec 14 2012, 9:14pm
Post #1 of 61
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Please post all Hobbit reviews within this thread. (Links to previous review threads within.)
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Thread 1
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Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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Ardamírë
Doriath
Dec 14 2012, 9:27pm
Post #2 of 61
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from a couple other posts.
As expected, I found the Bilbo/Frodo frame to be completely pointless and a waste of time. It added nothing to the story. To make it worse, the digital touching-up to Holm's face did not sit right with me. It made him look like a CG character, not like Holm from LOTR.
Speaking of CG, the entire film had far too much CG. It was so atrocious that even things I knew were real (like the actor playing Thror!) looked faked and cartoony. I blame much of this on the 48 fps and 4K. But it wasn't all just because of the new format. There were multiple times during the goblin tunnel sequences that I just cringed at the obvious CG spectacle. But possibly the worst use of CG comes in the form of Azog. He's completely CG and you can tell. Horrendous.
Besides these things, the story itself just did not feel like The Hobbit to me. Too many additions and changes. I was expecting them, of course, from reading most spoilers the past few years, but I don't think I liked them. Actually, I'm not so sure I didn't like them as much as I think it made the rest of the story slow down. The pacing was definitely an issue for me. Where were the scenes in the Shire that we've heard so much about? The market, the Took party, baby Bilbo. I thought we were getting a lot of that stuff to set up Bilbo's pre-adventure life. And I definitely expected to get a lot of that with three films! What about the scenes in Rivendell. We know there's one with Elrond and Bilbo, as well as one with Bilbo and Narsil. I wanted more of these, not endless warg scouts and stone giants. I've never before been so eager to get to the end of a film, but I found myself looking at the time quite a lot.
I dearly hope I'm able to enjoy the next two films much much more.
"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales
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Cave Troll
Ossiriand
Dec 14 2012, 9:42pm
Post #3 of 61
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Film 2 will make or break the trilogy.
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I dearly hope I'm able to enjoy the next two films much much more.
I really like PJ but I hope he takes some of this criticism to heart and plays to his strengths now - he's got a great cast, a great story, no doubt mounds of great footage... Kill off Azog asap, scale back the big CG set pieces and let's spend some quality time with the people we're meant to care about come the end of the third film.
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Ardamírë
Doriath
Dec 14 2012, 9:51pm
Post #4 of 61
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The cast is so good, but they were weighed down with too many action sequences. The CG also needs to be either cut down or done to perfection. None of this video game looking stuff anymore. Film is a visual medium; make it look stunning!
"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales
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Ardamírë
Doriath
Dec 14 2012, 9:53pm
Post #6 of 61
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up or down from the last time it was checked?
"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales
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Crunchable Birdses
Nargothrond
Dec 14 2012, 9:55pm
Post #7 of 61
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Anyway, the overall trend is that the negative bandwagon seems to be picking up so with 100+ more reviews still to come in, this can easily end up well in the Rotten category.
Of course all that matters is how the poor critical reception will affect the box office. One can only hope: not much, but I have no idea.
The school shooting might damage the weekend box office more than the reviews tbh.
* crunch *
(This post was edited by Crunchable Birdses on Dec 14 2012, 9:56pm)
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burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Dec 14 2012, 9:55pm
Post #8 of 61
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Yes what happened to Bilbo at home?
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Strange how PJ and co got almost all the technical decisions in LotR so wonderfully right- brilliant locations, brilliant gigatures, lots of traditional crafts, limited CGI with cool new motion capture- and yet in The Hobbit it feels so technically misjudged.
And yes, how could the film be so long and fail to give anytime to Bilbo's life in the Shire? How can the audience be expected to understand Bilbo dreaming of home when we don't experience what home is? In the book it comes up so often "dreaming of eggs and bacon", it was just such an essential story element to go for, and it was done very well in FotR.
I wish some brilliant u-turn can be performed before the next two films. Certainly changes in the editing room can happen. But many strange decisions in this adaptation are irreversible unfortunately.
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Elutherian
Nargothrond
Dec 14 2012, 9:55pm
Post #9 of 61
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I'm not going to assign a rating just yet, but it will surely be either a 9/10 or a solid 10/10.
The prologue was epic, loved the Bilbo and Frodo framing device (hardcore nostalgia), Azanulbizar might just be my favorite scene in the film (along with Balin's speech about Thorin). All the stuff in the Shire, The Unexpected Party, all just wonderful. Loved Radagast and the Dol Guildur subplot. Loved The White Council and the Gandalf/Galadriel scenes. Rivendell never looked better. The stone giants sequence was fun, but thankfully brief. Goblin-Town was just as it should be, Gandalf showing up gave me chills. Riddles in the Dark was so perfect, especially Bilbo showing pity at the end. The last scene was epic and intense.
As far as acting: Ian McKellen, as always, IS Gandalf the Grey. Martin Freeman is now officially my favorite Hobbit. Richard Armitage does justice to Thorin Oakensheild. But I think my favorite performances were from Andy Serkis, Ken Stott, James Nesbitt, Sylvester McCoy, and of course Lee Pace (the man was only onscreen for a few seconds and completely stole the spotlight).
The tone was appropriately lighter, more humor, but also dark and mystical like the book. It was different from LOTR in exactly the way it needed to be, while conjuring up the proper amount of familiarity. The CG was excessive in parts, but for the most part was extremely well done. Also, I think the critics are full of it when they say the film is "too long." AUJ flew by! And I was never bored for a single second. Finally: The score was wonderful, as were the landscapes of New Zealand, and the cinematography had my jaw dropping on more than one occasion.
I only had 3 problems with the entire film:
1. Azog. Did not care for the design AT ALL. Thought his character was a bit thin as well.
2. Ian Holm's digital de-aging was somewhat distracting. They did a far better job on Christopher Lee.
3. The Goblin King's last line. The character really worked for me up until that point.
Other than those extremely minor complaints, the film was just fantastic. Can't wait until December 13th of next year!
The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...
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Ardamírë
Doriath
Dec 14 2012, 9:57pm
Post #10 of 61
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I cannot say I'm surprised. I think it will get more negative reviews partly because The Hobbit is naturally different from LOTR and many people aren't expecting that. Other negative reviews will come from the 3D 48FPS. And still others just won't like the adaptation (I fall in this group).
"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales
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Cave Troll
Ossiriand
Dec 14 2012, 9:59pm
Post #11 of 61
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but post-Bag End, the lighting also felt really off to me.
Let's have some dark darks, some mystery, some atmosphere!
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Crunchable Birdses
Nargothrond
Dec 14 2012, 10:01pm
Post #12 of 61
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"And yes, how could the film be so long and fail to give anytime to Bilbo's life in the Shire? How can the audience be expected to understand Bilbo dreaming of home when we don't experience what home is? In the book it comes up so often "dreaming of eggs and bacon", it was just such an essential story element to go for, and it was done very well in FotR."
Notice how pretty much all the negative reviews (and most of the "positive" ones) on RT are slamming the film for spending too long in the Shire. If there was anymore time spent here, I can't imagine what the reaction would have been.
I'm on your side though - I love all the Shire stuff.
But we are in a wierd world of critical backlash against this film where nothing makes sense anymore. I can only pray that the box office is not affected by this.
* crunch *
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Ardamírë
Doriath
Dec 14 2012, 10:02pm
Post #13 of 61
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I thought it bordered between acceptable and utterly cartoony. If nothing else, I was expecting to be blown away by the visuals, but sadly I didn't even get that. There were only a few times when I thought the visual were good - the Shire, Bag-end, and landscapes. Erebor and goblin town were both horrendously fake.
What I'd like to know is why those extra Shire & Rivendell scenes were filmed. Obviously, they were supposed to be in the two film adaptation, but somehow they didn't even make it in when it was stretched to three? I'm completely baffled by that.
"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales
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Elutherian
Nargothrond
Dec 14 2012, 10:02pm
Post #14 of 61
(1278 views)
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Because the lighting looked perfect in 24 fps.
The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...
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Ardamírë
Doriath
Dec 14 2012, 10:02pm
Post #15 of 61
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I'll look for it on my next viewing for sure.
"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales
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Kassandros
Nargothrond
Dec 14 2012, 10:06pm
Post #16 of 61
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I felt the movie was way too bright in 48 fps, but I noticed one of the times I felt this way, the company was outdoors in broad daylight. So it made perfect sense to be bright. Why was I so bothered by the brightness then? I'm not entirely sure. I think it might be due to trouble adapting to 48 fps. I'm withholding judgement till I've seen it again.
all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...
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Crunchable Birdses
Nargothrond
Dec 14 2012, 10:07pm
Post #17 of 61
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To give him more options in the editing room.
I'm worried now that because of the atrocious critical reception to the "slow start" of AUJ, that we might get shortchanged with the Beorn stuff in film 2, so the film can slam quicker into the Mirkwood action. That would be horrible if true.
* crunch *
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burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Dec 14 2012, 10:08pm
Post #18 of 61
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For me I would have cut a lot of other things.
I didn't think any Ian Holm or anything related to Lord of the Rings belonged at the start, it had no dramatic purpose at all. I'd also have had no prologue, it just served no purpose before the characters have been introduced. A shorter section hinting at Smaug when we see the map would have been fine.
Also I'd have cut just about every other addition- White Council, Radagast, Dol Guldur, Azog... Only things that push forward the Bilbo and Smaug story would stay.
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Crunchable Birdses
Nargothrond
Dec 14 2012, 10:14pm
Post #20 of 61
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The Old Bilbo/Frodo thing was an indulgence that fell completely flat for me and probably contributed a lot to the (imo rather misguided) feeling of "bloat". I would have removed it also.
However, I will defend everything else about the film - I thought it all worked really well.
* crunch *
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Artemis Roach
Nevrast
Dec 14 2012, 10:14pm
Post #21 of 61
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I truly think the critical backlash is warranted.
And what do you say of the people who absolutely love it?
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Cave Troll
Ossiriand
Dec 14 2012, 10:17pm
Post #22 of 61
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in 3D. Not sure if that had something to do with it...
It was just all so, well, bright. Even Rohan in TTT was darker than Dol Guldur.
I don't dispute the brightness was largely suitable but Sauron's hideout? A subterranean goblin town? Gollum's cave? Those are appropriate places to dim the lights and create some atmosphere.
I swear Bag End had more interesting shades and shadows than any of those places...
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Crunchable Birdses
Nargothrond
Dec 14 2012, 10:21pm
Post #23 of 61
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"I truly think the critical backlash is warranted"
You say that, but then you also say:
"but I also think the film would benefit from more time there. It doesn't really make sense"
No it doesn't make sense in my mind because I strongly feel that the critical backlash is (I would say) 70% to do with the slow start before the action kicks in, and 30% to do with HFR. Unless you think the backlash concerns other issues?
Just to illustrate, a new review has come up on RT (a "positive" one), yet it contains this, which is going to sound like a stuck record:
"A prolonged and labored dinner party presents the 13 dwarves who will accompany Bilbo and the wizard Gandalf (Ian McKellen) in an attempt to take back Erebor from Smaug. The dwarves display little individual personality apart from their cranky, suspicious leader Thorin (Richard Armitage). And when they break into vaguely Celtic song, The Hobbit threatens to sink into a Middle-earth parody."
Again, this registers as an overall positive review but I have read this critique a hundred times now. Basically the critics are not on the same page as Tolkien fans - what Tolkien fan in their right mind would want the dinner scene cut, or the songs cut?
* crunch *
(This post was edited by Crunchable Birdses on Dec 14 2012, 10:31pm)
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burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Dec 14 2012, 10:31pm
Post #24 of 61
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The pacing and HFR did put many reviewers off, e.g. Bradshaw in the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/dec/09/hobbit-an-unexpected-journey-review
But there's also been a deeper critique from some that the whole adaptation is flawed and misjudged, e.g. New York Times:
http://movies.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/movies/the-hobbit-an-unexpected-journey-by-peter-jackson.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
I'm more with the second group, but I could definitely do with another viewing in 2D normal frame rate at some point, as I did at least enjoy Martin Freeman's performance very much.
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ZackB
Lindon
Dec 14 2012, 10:36pm
Post #25 of 61
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I'm going to have to see it again because I am not sure if I liked it or not.
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I can list some things I hated. The azog hunting party storyline. It just seemed so forced and unnecessary. It was so damn annoying along with radaghast. Every time he came on screen I could not wait until his scenes were over. the stick bug scene was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen in my life. Second movie will have to save the trilogy. I hope to god, smaug looks good and azog is not in the rest of the movies! Or radaghast. I wouldn't have minded him if he wasn't so damn stupid, if they slacked off on the weirdest I would have been cool with it but it was so distracting.
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