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Joe20
Menegroth
Dec 8 2012, 2:57pm
Post #1 of 40
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*potential spoilers* Gandalf's Staff
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I was watching the clips and the 13 minute documentary (again), and saw this. It looks as though Gandalf perhaps takes Radagast's staff at some point.
In the first image, Gandalf has his normal staff and Radagast has his. Yet in the second it appears as though Gandalf has Radagast's.
http://i46.tinypic.com/t5rt55.png
http://i45.tinypic.com/282m8g1.png
I have only been following the production closely in the past couple of months, but have I missed something? Do we know anything about this?
(This post was edited by Joe20 on Dec 8 2012, 2:58pm)
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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Dec 8 2012, 2:59pm
Post #2 of 40
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I dont think we have any answers as of now, though.
LR
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gareteld
Lindon
Dec 8 2012, 3:38pm
Post #3 of 40
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many have said that perhaps radagast dies
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but i dont think he will! i reckon he chooses to leave the istari and become one with nature and hands over his staff to gandalf whose staff i presume will be broken when the white council challenge the necromancer at dol gudur
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Radagast-Aiwendil
Mithlond
Dec 8 2012, 3:40pm
Post #4 of 40
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An interview with Sylvester McCoy drops quite a large hint....spoilers!
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HC: And you get to carry a staff…
SM: If you know your “Lord of the Rings,” you might recognize it. You’ll have to wait and see what happens in the next three years. You’ll find out about that staff. It’s quite important eventually. It’s a mystery. I don’t want to give it all away.
Now if that ain't proof that Raddy is going to die, I don't know what is....
"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.
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Joe20
Menegroth
Dec 8 2012, 3:41pm
Post #5 of 40
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haha yep that pretty much confirms it.
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Aragalen the Green
Mithlond
Dec 8 2012, 4:11pm
Post #8 of 40
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As I mentioned in a previous post...
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Radagast's staff has a crystal, while Gandalf's does not seem to in AUJ. However in FOTR Gandalf uses a crystal in his staff to light the way in Moria. So either he ends up with Radagast's crystal or possibly his staff.
Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."
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Elenorflower
Mithlond
Dec 8 2012, 4:16pm
Post #9 of 40
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does indeed become the Moth. It ties in nicely with LOTR. How else could Gandalf have talked to a moth on Orthanc? surely the power to talk to animals was Radagasts domain? Radagast for whatever reason could be attacked by the Necromancer, and to save himself he turns into the Moth, but cant change back. Gandalf promises to take the staff and Radagast promises to help when he can. Part of this new affinity Gandalf has with animals comes in useful and helps Gandalf meet Shadowfax and he is able to communicate with Shadowfax to ask for help. This way, Radagast does not actually die, which would be hard to take in a 'kiddies' film, him being so cute and all.
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Aragalen the Green
Mithlond
Dec 8 2012, 4:24pm
Post #11 of 40
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Staff with crystal. Although, didn't Gandalf take the crystal out from somewhere (a pocket?) and then place it in his staff in Moria?
Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."
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MTT Gandalf
Nevrast
Dec 8 2012, 4:35pm
Post #12 of 40
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It's like the second staff of Gandalf in FOTR, not like the first. Gandalf takes this after the escape from Orthanc.
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Aragalen the Green
Mithlond
Dec 8 2012, 4:36pm
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It would take a lot to do in Radagast I think, being a Wizard and all; although admittedly Saruman was killed relatively easily (in the books anyway) by Wormtongue. However Saruman had been stripped of his powers and his staff broken by Gandalf the White.
Besides, Radagast is indeed sure cute  . I'm enjoying the clips with him worrying about his trees and critters, and admiring the fact he goes into Dol Guldur apparently by himself.
Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."
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Aragalen the Green
Mithlond
Dec 8 2012, 4:44pm
Post #14 of 40
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Here's an image of the crystal
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in Moria.
From this site: http://www.tk421.net/lotr/film/fotr/20.html
Photos and dialog.
Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."
(This post was edited by Aragalen the Green on Dec 8 2012, 4:46pm)
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fotr1014.jpg
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Radagast-Aiwendil
Mithlond
Dec 8 2012, 4:44pm
Post #15 of 40
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Good ideas but I still think that the "death" or "moth" theories are the answer.
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Being able to transform into a moth would certainly fit Radagast's character. Sailing into the West would contradict Tolkien, given that Gandalf was the only one to return, plus Raddy would have to return in shame having not completed the task of the Istari, even if he had completed Yavanna's task.
If he was kicked from the order by Saruman as you suggest, then surely Gandalf and the others would have a reason to dislike and therefore possibly suspect Saruman, provided of course that they knew about it? As long as Radagast stays out of Saruman's way then I don't think the White Wizard is too bothered about him. Besides, if Saruman could do that, Gandalf would have probably suffered the same fate in FOTR, as Saruman never liked him either (though it was jealously as opposed to scorn).
Giving his staff to Gandalf would work but I think that's a little too undramatic for PJ. In terms of leaving the order, he could perhaps turn his back on it, but surely he couldn't technically leave it, unless he sailed away, died or was banished from it?
It may not be "Game of Thrones" (Which I've never seen, sadly) but PJ certainly seemed to think that it was in TTT when he "killed" Aragorn, and then proceeded to kill Haldir.
"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.
(This post was edited by Radagast-Aiwendil on Dec 8 2012, 4:46pm)
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Mithlond
Dec 8 2012, 5:03pm
Post #16 of 40
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I can see it...
Perhaps Radagast gives his staff to Gandalf at the end of TABA.
Gandalf already having his own staff taking Radagasts to Rivendell and leaves it there.
Something happens to Gandalfs AUJ-staff we do not know yet.
After he returned from Orthanc where he loses his first (or second after the AUJ one) staff to Saruman he takes Radagasts one which he left in Rivendell... it would make sense to me.
Later he loses this staff in his battle with the Balrog.
Returning as Gandalf the White with a new white staff (perhaps from Lothlorien as a gift from Galadriel).
He breaks Sarumans staff after his defeat.
He loses his new white staff during his confrontation with the Witch King.
In the end of ROTK Gandalf leaves Middle-earth with a new white staff...
Wow... what a waste of staffs... man I wouldn't borrow Gandalf my staff if I were a wizard he would ask me ;-)
But wasn't there a quote of Saruman from the books chapter The Voice of Saruman: "Later! Yes, when you also have the Keys of Barad-dûr itself, I suppose; and the crowns of seven kings, and the rods of the Five Wizards, and have purchased yourself a pair of boots many sizes larger than those that you wear now." - There we have it. Gandalf wants to have all staffs. Perhaps he already used the staffs of the blue wizards? Think about it  I think PJ took this quote very serious.
"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."
(This post was edited by Lieutenant of Dol Guldur on Dec 8 2012, 5:04pm)
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Aitieuriskon
Menegroth
Dec 8 2012, 5:32pm
Post #19 of 40
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Those words of Saruman will finally carry some weight if we end up seeing Gandalf take up Radagast's staff. Another good example of connective tissue between the two tales that is neither as overblown nor glaringly obvious, though I suppose we will not know for certain until we have finished watching these films, as that scene will likely occur in There and Back Again if it happens at all.
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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Elenorflower
Mithlond
Dec 8 2012, 6:04pm
Post #20 of 40
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that Gandalf gets his staff destroyed by the Necromancer in the Battle of Dol Guldur. Maybe at that time the Necromancer/Sauron and Gandalf were more evenly matched in strength. Maybe they fought more on an even playing field in the time of the Hobbit. Something happens to Radagast (moth theory) and Gandalf takes Radagasts staff as a result.
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Radagast-Aiwendil
Mithlond
Dec 8 2012, 8:12pm
Post #22 of 40
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I know it's not proof, but it could be proof..besides, the likelihood of him either
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dying or becoming the moth, is agreed by most to be the most predictable option.//
(subject line edited for possible spoilers)
"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.
(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 8 2012, 9:41pm)
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sauget.diblosio
Dor-Lomin
Dec 8 2012, 8:20pm
Post #23 of 40
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I do not like it, and i doubt that's even close. Sounds kind of silly.
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Radagast-Aiwendil
Mithlond
Dec 8 2012, 8:23pm
Post #24 of 40
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I agree that it seems quite silly, but lots of people on this forum,
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myself included, think it's possible simply because it would connect Raddy to LOTR, without needing to kill him//
(subject line edited for possible spoilers)
"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.
(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 8 2012, 9:42pm)
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utku
Ossiriand
Dec 8 2012, 8:40pm
Post #25 of 40
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So after the battle, the grey wizard sees Radagast's staff on the ground, next to his hat. Saddened by the realization of the passing of his colleague, he picks up the staff. Right at that moment a moth appears and flies away as Gandalf smiles.
Yes it's silly and perhaps over the top dramatic but it leaves things to viewers imagination and thus we can all be happy. People finding it stupid can just ignore the connection and those who look for it will get the LotR connection.
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Radagast had a confrontation with a Ringwraith ... Maybe Gandalf needs his staff for something? 
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