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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Nov 26 2012, 9:28pm
Post #1 of 41
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Where is Gandalf during the Trollshaws episode?
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Have we any clues from what we have seen so far?
He definitely isn't in the Tombs (as he had his sword for this) and somehow it doesn't seem very Jacksonian to simply have him disappear.
Do we have any hints we can pool?
LR
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Aitieuriskon
Menegroth
Nov 26 2012, 9:30pm
Post #2 of 41
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How do we know he has his sword for the tomb sequence?
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He appears only to have his staff in hand during those scenes, though I suppose he could have Glamdring sheathed beneath his robe.
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Nov 26 2012, 9:35pm
Post #3 of 41
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Assuming he isn't searching tombs, or talking to Radagast, there might be two options.
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1. Making sure the road ahead is clear. The abandoned farmhouse is an indication that something isn't quite right. Perhaps he goes ahead, to scout out the Wargs they later encounter, and failing to notice the Trolls just metres away?
2. Enters Rivendell, to warn Elrond of the Dwarves arrival?
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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Nov 26 2012, 9:37pm
Post #4 of 41
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If you watch it on a bright screen you can see it clearly.
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The sheath behind him, close to the wall on his left hand side.
Interstingly it made me realise how much darker my iPad is than my laptop.
LR
You might be able to see it here - if it works.
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a617/Lacrimaererum/Gandalf.png
(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Nov 26 2012, 9:40pm)
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Aitieuriskon
Menegroth
Nov 26 2012, 9:44pm
Post #5 of 41
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I con't think of what he could be doing other than scouting ahead, but that seems too repetitive given it'll likely be the excuse he gives when he wanders off in search of the crypt.
Do you think he'll be in the crypt while the Wargs attack the rest of the company? Perhaps he will arrive with the elves to save the day?
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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ShireHorse
Nargothrond
Nov 26 2012, 9:45pm
Post #6 of 41
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I have a vague memory of reading
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that he and Thorin have a serious argument over whether or not they should go to Rivendell. Obviously, Thorin has no desire to associate with all those elves. The argument is so bad that they part company.
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dave_lf
Mithlond
Nov 26 2012, 9:46pm
Post #7 of 41
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Then I would posit one of the following:
-That isn't a sword, it's just a fold in his cloak that looks like one
-That's a different sword that he uses before he finds Glamdring
-That isn't the tomb scene
He definitely has the Morgul blade at Rivendell, so if none of the above hold, then he must either leave straight for the tomb after retrieving Glamdring, or take a side trip there while the dwarves are resting in Rivendell.
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ForestPark
Ossiriand
Nov 26 2012, 9:55pm
Post #8 of 41
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Or are you just happy to see me ?
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Xanaseb
Dor-Lomin
Nov 26 2012, 10:15pm
Post #9 of 41
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Maybe he will just dissapear ... it's within the Jacksonian realm of possibility no? //
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--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--
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Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
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Aragalen the Green
Mithlond
Nov 26 2012, 10:15pm
Post #10 of 41
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Gandalf disapears as they're walking
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in the rain, near the beginning of the journey. The Company crosses a bridge, then they stop for supper and realize Gandalf isn't with them. They can't start a fire--"Just when a Wizard would have been most useful, too"--then the Troll adventure begins.
After the incident, Thorin asks Gandalf where he has been. "To look ahead" he replies.
I won't quote the whole portion of the conversation, but that's basically it.
Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."
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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Nov 26 2012, 10:23pm
Post #11 of 41
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Well it's definitively a sword
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I'm 100% on that. I don't think he has another sword prior to the trolls (as we don't see him with a sword prior to that point). And it is definitely the tombs as the recent WETA book spoilers confirm that.
I'm a bit puzzled by the hobbit storybook as that suggests that Gandalf is with the dwarves during the first warg attack.
Hmmmm......
LR
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ShireHorse
Nargothrond
Nov 26 2012, 10:45pm
Post #12 of 41
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Ah! Are we talking about what might have happened in the book
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or what PJ will suggest has happened in the film? I am talking about the film, where, I believe, PJ instigates an argument between Gandalf and Thorin.
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Aragalen the Green
Mithlond
Nov 26 2012, 10:53pm
Post #13 of 41
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You mentioned "reading" so I automatically went to the book.
An argument, you say?
Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."
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Aitieuriskon
Menegroth
Nov 26 2012, 11:05pm
Post #14 of 41
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I had forgotten, but various interviews have suggested an increasingly combative relationship between Gandalf and Thorin
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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Aitieuriskon
Menegroth
Nov 26 2012, 11:06pm
Post #15 of 41
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Yep your screenshot leaves me without a doubt
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I have a feeling the chronology of the film's first hour and a half will be a bit of a mess.
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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dave_lf
Mithlond
Nov 26 2012, 11:10pm
Post #16 of 41
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then Gandalf must simply be scouting ahead during the troll episode, and maybe it is the presence of the trolls or the contents of their hoard that clues him in that something Nazgul-y is going on. Maybe he returns just in time to save them from the wargs, though that would make three such incidents in the first film alone.
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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Nov 26 2012, 11:16pm
Post #17 of 41
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I'm not sure it can be during the wargs
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As the storybook quotes him at the start of the warg attack ("Arm yourselves!") and at the end when they enter Rivendell.
I can't quite concieve of Gandalf nipping off to the tombs mid-fight.
LR
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ShireHorse
Nargothrond
Nov 26 2012, 11:18pm
Post #18 of 41
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I'm thinking back and I'm sure that some journalist (from Empire?) was allowed on set right at the beginning of filming and he saw PJ directing a scene between Thorin and Gandalf. Gandalf wants to take refuge in Rivendell and Thorin refuses. Tolkien gives no real reason for Gandalf's disappearance so PJ invents (quite a good) one, IMO.
We've been told recently that Thorin's relationship with Gandalf deteriorates.
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Kangi Ska
Gondolin
Nov 27 2012, 12:34am
Post #19 of 41
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He ran back to Bree for a pint at the Prancing Pony.
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Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Captain Salt
Dor-Lomin
Nov 27 2012, 12:55am
Post #20 of 41
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Option 1 seems likely to me, however
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wasn't there someone who recently said the WETA books states the King's Tomb is searched before the Trollshaw episode?
Perhaps Gandalf originally has a different sword, which he later trades in for the identical Glamdring? 
My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!
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Aitieuriskon
Menegroth
Nov 27 2012, 1:00am
Post #21 of 41
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The tomb sequence which the writers seem to have invented specifically for the purpose of explaining Gandalf's absence in the Trollshaws now doesn't appear to fit into that time slot. Another sequence expanded upon in the movie will be the Thrain-Gandalf encounter in Dol Guldur, which should really happen in flashback to show Gandalf retrieving the key and map, now looks like it may be pushed back to film two, since Gandalf has Orcrist in both of these scenes.
I guess we won't really know how all these things fit into the bigger picture until the release!
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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Captain Salt
Dor-Lomin
Nov 27 2012, 3:36am
Post #22 of 41
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-Gandy goes scouting ahead, finds the abandoned farmhouse or other evidence of the Trolls, returns to save the Dwarves from Bill, Tom & Bert
-Raddy catches up to them outside the Trollshaw/troll-hoarde, fills Gandy in on what's happening in Mirkwood, Gandy has just obtained Glamdring, he convinces Thorin to seek refuge in Rivendell, Gandy and Raddy go off to investigate the King's Tomb...though this doesn't gel with some of the described footage such as Raddy popping up unexpectedly in the tomb, Gandy going "Oh, it's you"...perhaps footage from the tomb and Dol Guldur were spliced together in the Comic-Con presentation? Another possibility is that re-writes/re-shoots/editing have greatly changed this sequence of events, so what was screened will differ from the final film (this seems somewhat inevitable, IMO).
-Gandy finds the Morgul blade in the Tomb, realizes evil is afoot, returns to the Trollshaw as the Wargs arrive, yells his "Arm yourselves" line, the Company are pursued to Rivendell and saved by Elrond's riders?
Another possibility is simply that Gandy trades in swords at the Trollshaw. Maybe he likes Glamdring better...? That would mirror Thorin's "Axe Or Sword" decision.
My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!
(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Nov 27 2012, 3:41am)
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Fardragon
Nargothrond
Nov 27 2012, 7:53am
Post #23 of 41
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Maybe Glamdring won't be found in the troll horde?
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He might actually find it in the nazgul tombs.
Or he may have had a sword at the start, but kept it in the baggage, rather than wearing it. Dwarves may turn up to a party in the Shire fully armed, but a wizard knows better.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Nov 27 2012, 9:58am
Post #25 of 41
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Good thought but he definitely
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Finds it in the troll treasure - we have had multiple confirmations of that.
LR
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