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Carne
Dor-Lomin
Nov 15 2012, 5:01pm
Post #27 of 46
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Depends on what you count as an army
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I suspect orcs and goblins from Dol Guldur, Gundabad and Misty Mountains will show up at the battle as one army.
(This post was edited by Carne on Nov 15 2012, 5:02pm)
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Oin K
Ossiriand
Nov 15 2012, 5:06pm
Post #28 of 46
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Beorn might still be in film 1
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I would not be shocked to see the Great Bear show up near the end to kick some warg and goblin tail. It could happen just as the battle takes a turn for the worse and it looks as if the dwarves are about to be burned and then eaten by the wolves, and right before the Eagles arrive. No explanation required beyond Gandalf mentioning that the bear must be no friend to the goblins. And Beorn need not be aware of the party huddling up in the trees as he charges in. I strongly suspect also that Radagast will be involved in this altercation, and since Beorn knows him, this would be where Radagast finally touches base with Gandalf, perhaps riding in on an Eagle to rescue him.
If it happened this way, it would be a cool surprise and a nice setup for the next film.
"The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their snouts were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a snoutless Dwarf - unless he were rhinoplasted in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have snouts from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..." (History of Middle Earth, volume 11, The War of the Truffles, p. 205)
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Sinister71
Dor-Lomin
Nov 15 2012, 5:25pm
Post #30 of 46
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Beorn needs to not know whether to trust Gandalf and the dwarves till he goes out and finds out the truth for himself.
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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Nov 15 2012, 5:53pm
Post #31 of 46
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But I feel awkward injecting any facts into the discussion.
LR
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Sinister71
Dor-Lomin
Nov 15 2012, 6:04pm
Post #32 of 46
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fact is he did say something of the sort in Empire magazine. It was actually 5 legions war was the quote, but whatever. I know you'll disagree just to do so I still think Jackson will change things just because he can. People can worship PJ all they want, and think his films are great but they are no where near the caliber of Tolkien which he still makes a mockery of, by making changes to what was masterfully written by changing it to mindless action for the masses IMO.
(This post was edited by sinister71 on Nov 15 2012, 6:04pm)
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Fardragon
Nargothrond
Nov 15 2012, 6:16pm
Post #33 of 46
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Which is the critical qualifier.
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for the masses IMO.
Yes, you could do an extremely high brow adaptation, but you would have to do it on a much lower budget because you wouldn't get much of an audience for it.
PJ's changes are needed - to pay the bills.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Nov 15 2012, 6:21pm
Post #34 of 46
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You can find the actual quote easily, as you now so ably demonstrate. So no mention of "seven" after all. Glad to have cleared that up.
LR
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Sinister71
Dor-Lomin
Nov 15 2012, 6:22pm
Post #35 of 46
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Just from reading the story of the Hobbit there is a way to make just as entertaining film of the events of the book without having to add just as much or more material than the actual story Tolkien wrote and published as the Hobbit. Which would appeal to the mass market as something with a large amount of made up fan fiction content based on vague notes.
All the additions Jackson is adding aren't needed they are his ego "wanting" to put them in there nothing more. He is telling the story "HE" wants to tell instead of just telling Tolkien's tale 
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Sinister71
Dor-Lomin
Nov 15 2012, 6:31pm
Post #36 of 46
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I guess I don't worship Peter Jackson's vision of middle earth like you do. and seem to have to defend him at every turn. But I was mistaken I remember him saying something about legions war and wasn't sure if it was 7 or 5.
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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Nov 15 2012, 6:40pm
Post #38 of 46
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I'm not sure worship is required.
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Just access to google and the ability to type coherently. They seem to do the trick.
LR
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Tim
Dor-Lomin
Nov 15 2012, 7:20pm
Post #39 of 46
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After watching the making-of docs I think he's driven more by the need to make a good movie. So perhaps it's just changes he feels he needs to make to deliver a good movie. Not all changes we agree with (I certainly don't agree with all of them), but that doesn't mean he's ego-driven.
-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.
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starlesswinter
Menegroth
Nov 15 2012, 7:26pm
Post #40 of 46
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Peter and Co. clearly love Tolkien's work or they wouldn't put so much effort into the making of these films. They just don't happen to agree with every choice Tolkien made. And why should they? Does everyone here love 100% of what Tolkien did? I know I don't, yet I still enjoy and respect his work all the same. As Tim said, they're making decisions they feel will work better with audiences and contribute to a better film.
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Tim
Dor-Lomin
Nov 15 2012, 7:26pm
Post #41 of 46
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and seem to have to defend him at every turn. .
"At every turn"... it seems you're not picking up on the correlation with your negative statements. You say something negative, that prompts something positive. By all means be politely negative, but expect a response. There's a whole lot of people out there who liked the films.
-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.
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tolktolk
Menegroth
Nov 15 2012, 7:28pm
Post #42 of 46
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It took two seconds to find his actual quote. At that point he was clearly not au fait with the plot:
" I’m playing Smaug through motion-capture and voicing the Necromancer, which is a character in the Five Legions War or something which I’m meant to understand. "
I see Peter Jackson is being psycho-analysed again - it is amazing how people who have never met the man and are never likely to can be so intimate with the inner workings of his mind. What a gift - Derren Brown would be green with envy!
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starlesswinter
Menegroth
Nov 15 2012, 7:31pm
Post #43 of 46
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People forget sometimes that film is far more of a financially-driven medium than literature. As much as we would like movies to be 100% artistically-driven, there's a balancing act at work. Money is enormously important to what the filmmakers can actually put onscreen. Little details that fans would love to see can cost thousands of dollars. The studios then have to earn that money back and make a profit from it, which involves making some decisions that will bring audiences in.
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SirDennisC
Gondolin
Nov 15 2012, 7:58pm
Post #44 of 46
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Nah, just the Battle of Five Armies and Friends. //
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Nov 15 2012, 8:02pm
Post #45 of 46
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That sometimes, investments in risky projects is well-rewarded financially, and that those films sometimes go down in history as the best of all time.
I don't see why we should settle for mediocrity when it comes to an adaptation of such a classic story. Let's advocate boldness and risk, and let the studios do the apologizing.
Yes, there are financial considerations at play. But visionaries can turn quality into money.
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Fardragon
Nargothrond
Nov 15 2012, 8:26pm
Post #46 of 46
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when the initial outlay is relatively low (Star Wars for example).
When it gets expensive, it's more often a flop (Heaven's Gate, Ishtar, Waterworld, Golden Compass), that leaves the studios facing liquidation, rather than apologising.
As often as not, visionaries just turn money into less money.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
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