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Mauricio
Nevrast
Oct 2 2012, 2:22pm
Post #2 of 23
(961 views)
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Or is it just me?
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Bombadil
Gondolin
Oct 2 2012, 4:37pm
Post #4 of 23
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The one Great piece of news he said here..
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Is he is setting up a Mo-Cap studio in England!
If anyone could train people how..it's
GOLLUM, KING KONG, CEASUR?
Rock on..Andy
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Oct 2 2012, 4:38pm
Post #5 of 23
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Giving the 2nd unit to someone with such limited directing experience...
Hopefully, he proves to be a genius!
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Tim
Dor-Lomin
Oct 2 2012, 5:34pm
Post #6 of 23
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He had quite a few people directing in LOTR
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For my tastes, he pulled it off. Thus letting Serkis direct doesn't concern me as PJ is overseeing the whole thing.
King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.
Tim: Quite.
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Owain
Dor-Lomin
Oct 2 2012, 5:53pm
Post #7 of 23
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Andy Serkis has been in the industry for 23+ years and over the past 10 has spent an intensive amount of time studying the technical aspect of movie making (particularly motion capture).
To me he is an inspired choice as someone who has been there and is going back again. I think he garners a certain amount of instant respect from the cast he would be directing and already had that from the returning crew.
With the incredible team of professionals that would be supporting him, I think his leadership will shine. The production diaries have given us a glimpse of that.
Middle Earth is New Zealand!
"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."
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There&ThereAgain
Nargothrond
Oct 3 2012, 12:44am
Post #8 of 23
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Like 10 people directed Lord of the Rings:
Geoff Murphy (wonderful NZ director, see Quiet Earth)
Barrie Osbourne
Fran Walsh
Phillipa Boyens
Rick Porras
Alex Funke (Miniatures/Bigatures!)
Jim Rygiel
and I'm sure a few others had a hand in directing a scene or a handful of scenes!
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Oct 3 2012, 12:46am
Post #9 of 23
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There is a highly inconsistent style across the three films, and that may have to do with the different directors.
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There&ThereAgain
Nargothrond
Oct 3 2012, 12:57am
Post #10 of 23
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as much as I love watching the behind the scenes, knowing little facts like that don't really spoil my enjoyment of the final product. I got used to it being that I am in the business myself and I still want to like watching things I work on! 
The film's are pretty consistent stylewise, any outliers are usually in the interpretation of the material on a grander scale (paths of the dead and the corsairs being obvious ones), but I can't really think of any acting I would consider inconsistent. Cinematography-wise Andrew Lesnie and the coloring-team manage to succeed in tying together a diverse landscape into something that feels real.
I'm curious to hear some observations to things you find inconsistent as I can only think of the two things listed above!
PJ's style as a filmmaker is really invisible which works fine for something like Lord of the Rings. Imagine someone like Tim Burton directing LOTR, gross. 
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
(This post was edited by There&ThereAgain on Oct 3 2012, 12:58am)
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Black Breathalizer
Nargothrond
Oct 3 2012, 1:06am
Post #11 of 23
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Owain wrote: Andy Serkis has been in the industry for 23+ years and over the past 10 has spent an intensive amount of time studying the technical aspect of movie making (particularly motion capture).
To me he is an inspired choice as someone who has been there and is going back again. I think he garners a certain amount of instant respect from the cast he would be directing and already had that from the returning crew.
Completely agree.
The truth of the matter is that Serkis probably knows PJ and his tastes better than any director the production crew could have possibly brought in. For those who don't understanding the art of film making, there is a reason why the LOTR end credit said: Directed by: Peter Jackson. The films were his vision, period. When it comes to second (or third or fourth) unit directors, it's never about their eye, artistic flare, or creativity. The notion they would bring their own style to filming a scene is ridiculous. It's all about giving PJ the shots he wants.
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There&ThereAgain
Nargothrond
Oct 3 2012, 1:10am
Post #12 of 23
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and inconsistencies can be edited out. 
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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Black Breathalizer
Nargothrond
Oct 3 2012, 1:19am
Post #13 of 23
(770 views)
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If first you don't succeed, try, try again...
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There&ThereAgain wrote: there's also editing and inconsistencies can be edited out.
Yep. You can be assured that what you see on film has been PJ-blessed and approved--whether it's a second unit shot, the background music, or your view of Laketown on film or characters like Smaug or Beorn.
Howe and Lee are fantastic artists but it's safe to assume (particularly since they're quoted as saying they did thousands of drawings) that they didn't deliver the exact images and scenes PJ wanted on their first attempts.
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marcuspaine
Nevrast
Oct 3 2012, 1:26am
Post #14 of 23
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The LotR films were remarkably consistent when you consider how often other series - Harry Potter, etc - changed hands with new directors and their visions
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PJ may have had other directors working with different units - be honest here, any production the scale of the trilogy would - but the ultimate product is his vision and any "inconsistencies" certainly aren't from competing visions/styles. That's nonsense.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Oct 3 2012, 1:37am
Post #15 of 23
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Of course PJ directed the films
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However, he cannot control everything. He has limited time and resources. If a 2nd, or 10th unit director filmed a bunch of stuff that he has to use, for story-telling reasons, and it just happened to not be wholly consistent with the style he was aiming for, he would need to compromise on that consistency a bit. That's real life.
There are numerous examples of big budget films suffering this problem of too many cooks (ADs) in the kitchen. No matter how strong your vision is as a director, or how strong your control over the film-making process is, there are bound to be bumps that cannot be ironed out. There are bound to be one or two or three ADs that, being human, want to put a little bit of their own stamp on things, and hope that PJ will like it enough to overlook the inconsistency.
That's why I find the following statement a little unrealistic:
The notion they would bring their own style to filming a scene is ridiculous.
The notion that an AD, a professional artist with ambitions and desires for creative fulfillment, would never, ever bring any of their own style into a scene, is, IMO, ridiculous.
On a large project like this, the Director is in absolute control only in theory. For the most part, he is more of a juggler, keeping everything in the air, generally keeping the juggling act as planned (his style), yet occasionally dropping a ball here or there, or getting inspiration from somewhere, and changing things up a bit.
That said, I have no good reason to believe that Serkis isn't a very competent professional. For all I know, the scenes he shot will look great. In fact, I know he shot that brief bit in the trailer, with the dwarves in the foreground, and the snowy mountains in the background. And, IMO, its one of the best shots in the trailer. Likely story-boarded by PJ already? Sure. But execution can make a big difference.
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There&ThereAgain
Nargothrond
Oct 3 2012, 1:45am
Post #16 of 23
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the auteur theory is very problematic and it's unrealistic to believe that PJ literally controlled every aspect of the production. That's what producers (like me) are for 
John Gilbert who edited Fellowship of the Ring mentions quite casually that Peter never saw a final edit of Boromir's death scene. He and his AE cut the scene together and it was in the film as is. Now PJ directed the scene, and saw dailies and picked the best takes, but he literally did not see the finished edit until after it was in the can, says Gilbert.
Again I think the trilogy is very consistent for having a lot of creative hands in it, but like SA is saying, only in a perfect world does a director have complete control.
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Oct 3 2012, 1:46am
Post #17 of 23
(781 views)
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Of course it all had PJ's blessing and approval
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But on a production of that size, which had millions of moving pieces, and had to stay on a strict filming schedule, you sometimes had to work with what you had.
Take the warg designs, for example. PJ didn't like them. But in the chaos of production and post, and all the other priorities that existed, he had to accept the designs. It was a compromise decision borne of reality.
That's my only point here. PJ is not a God. As much as he tried to control his vision and his creation, things would not always turn out as planned, whether that was because of studio pressures, resource and time constraints, or too many competing priorities.
In the busy professional world, the art of prioritizing is key. And PJ certainly had to prioritize. That means that there were certain things that he likely accepted (such as the wargs, the most obvious example), even though they weren't ideal, or perfectly consistent with his vision.
(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Oct 3 2012, 1:47am)
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There&ThereAgain
Nargothrond
Oct 3 2012, 1:50am
Post #18 of 23
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I'm sure it's all hindsight, but PJ and Fran and Philippa really felt like TT got the shaft in terms of redrafting and planning. Personally TT is what got me hooked into Middle-Earth (I read the books once before but wasn't sold), but I can understand why they feel that way.
They are pragmatists, and they make the best with what they got. They aren't afraid to refilm whole scenes, change arcs and erase characters, but "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
(This post was edited by There&ThereAgain on Oct 3 2012, 1:51am)
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Oct 3 2012, 1:52am
Post #19 of 23
(755 views)
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Which is why, IMO, the auteur theory is much more appropriate for the world of indie film-making, where small budgets, less studio pressure, and a more manageable film-making infrastructure exists. In that smaller world, it is much easier for a director to play an infallible God.
That said, PJ certainly pushed his vision through more often than not. LOTR is, very much, a Peter Jackson film, characterized by an operatic style, big emotions, and both sweeping vistas, and intimate emotional arcs.
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There&ThereAgain
Nargothrond
Oct 3 2012, 1:57am
Post #20 of 23
(761 views)
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I like to think of the LOTR films as the blockbuster version
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of these engrossing historical fiction novels I do love so much.
I wonder if someone ever attempted a LOTR tv-series, or a a low budge remake, or Wes Anderson's LOTR?
the possibilities are endless. 
but yes I agree with you 100% that the auteur becomes more accurate as the world surrounding a film production gets smaller!
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Oct 3 2012, 2:01am
Post #21 of 23
(724 views)
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The first half of TTT (along with the Shire scenes in FOTR) to be the best segments of all three films.
PJ and company may have felt that TTT got the shaft, but it was a better film than FOTR and ROTK, IMO.
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Black Breathalizer
Nargothrond
Oct 3 2012, 2:13am
Post #22 of 23
(778 views)
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There&ThereAgain: Again I think the trilogy is very consistent for having a lot of creative hands in it, but like SA is saying, only in a perfect world does a director have complete control.
I don't recall saying a director has "complete control" over every aspect of the film. I did say that the director's vision is what appears on screen. He's the boss. While PJ might not have seen an edit or heard a piece of music until it was finished--he was responsible for giving it the final okay. As Howard Shore discovered, if the director doesn't like what he sees or hears, it's not going to end up on screen.
What I was responding to in my earlier post was the ludicrous notion that second, third, and fourth unit directors in the LOTR films were off doing their own thing thus accounting for 'inconsistent styles' one fan perceived in the LOTR films. I'm sure it has happened in a film before, particularly one with a poor director who has lost control. But certainly not films directed by an Oscar winner like a Steven Speilberg or a Peter Jackson.
(This post was edited by Black Breathalizer on Oct 3 2012, 2:15am)
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There&ThereAgain
Nargothrond
Oct 3 2012, 4:15am
Post #23 of 23
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you're both right! 
Ultimately it rests on PJ's shoulders. Even if Rick Porras was goofing around with Andy Serkis or Barrie Osborne was telling how the three trackers should run, like you said PJ's name is the only name under the director title.
filmmaking is a goofy artistic medium.
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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