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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Sep 26 2012, 1:57am
Post #1 of 77
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I am happily convinced Gandalf won't be captured with the dwarves, but now I worry if he will be with the company at all when the attack happens
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I am not looking for trouble, but I really love that whole scene, and while the concern of Gandalf being erroneously captured with the dwarves and Bilbo was a false alarm, it occurs to me and not for the first time, that I have yet to see any evidence of Gandalf being with the company on the mountain pass, during the Stone Giant attack, or in the cave prior to the ambush. What gives?
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Fàfnir
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 2:27am
Post #2 of 77
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and he just happens to show up and kill the great goblin right when the dwarves were about to be executed, he could nearly beat the eagles in the deus ex machina middle earth championship
(This post was edited by Fàfnir on Sep 26 2012, 2:28am)
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dave_lf
Mithlond
Sep 26 2012, 4:12am
Post #3 of 77
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Thorin suspects him of eating their food
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and sends him home in tears.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Sep 26 2012, 4:32am
Post #4 of 77
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Apparently, this is also precipitated by Gandalf's offer to help carry Orcrist for Thorin. According to Quint's forthcoming set report, due next week, Gandalf states (in slo-motion, a skill he learned in acting class):
"I could carry it for a while" followed by another statement in slo-motion; "shaaare the looooad."
Thorin flies into a rage, and then...what you said.
It provides a nice parallel to a scene from LOTR, though I can't remember which, as there are parts of it that have been surgically removed from my memory.
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Milknut
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 5:45am
Post #5 of 77
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I come bearing proof.
I believe this scene from trailer 1 (at about 1:38) is the scene in the cave before they go to sleep and get taken by the goblins.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Sep 26 2012, 5:55am
Post #6 of 77
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Shows Gandalf and company resting in a forested area, which looks nothing like the Misty Mountain pass we have seen from the trailer...
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Sep 26 2012, 7:07am
Post #8 of 77
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It is inevitable that this scene, from their arrival in the cave right until they all escape, will be changed. Gandalf might not be captured with the Dwarves, but I doubt this part of the film will end up exactly like the book.
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titanium_hobbit
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 7:51am
Post #9 of 77
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I suspect this is when Bilbo wakes first and just manages a squeak with the horrible wall crack nightmare (precursor to the recent Doctor Who theme?)
trailer 2: 2:13
Also, what does Bifur have in his hand- it's some sort of bird toy? if you scrub slowly through you can see it's wings flap.
Hobbit firster, Book firster.
Have you explored all of TORN's forums?
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Milknut
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 7:52am
Post #10 of 77
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I'm mystified as to why this is even a concern. What possible reason is there to change the events? It works in the book so what reason is there to change it?
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Sep 26 2012, 7:54am
Post #12 of 77
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Because they're making the films, and not us ;-)
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We already know that Bilbo ends up fighting a Goblin. That's a change right there!
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Milknut
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 7:55am
Post #13 of 77
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Maybe that was all part of an elaborate dream sequence!
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The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___
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titanium_hobbit
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 8:08am
Post #14 of 77
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There appears to be both blue moonlight and yellow lamp light in the scene.
This niggles at me a little because I know that Bilbo's sword isn't taken from him by the Goblins because it's hidden in his breeches.
Hobbit firster, Book firster.
Have you explored all of TORN's forums?
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Milknut
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 8:10am
Post #15 of 77
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Do you think the fight is taking place in the cave, not Goblin-Town?
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___
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titanium_hobbit
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 10:10am
Post #17 of 77
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yes- that it's Bilbo's heroics before the abduction
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seems very non-canon and I think, unlikely.
I agree Daniel, might not be moonlight.
Hobbit firster, Book firster.
Have you explored all of TORN's forums?
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Fardragon
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 10:21am
Post #18 of 77
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Bilbo will be a little less incompetent and whiny than he is early in the book. Otherwise a portion of the audience might find too irritating to identify with.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
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Milknut
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 10:34am
Post #19 of 77
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Martin Freeman, remember? 
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___
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dave_lf
Mithlond
Sep 26 2012, 12:18pm
Post #20 of 77
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What heroics? He just stands there trying not to get stabbed. Could be some dwarf takes out the goblin a moment later just before Bilbo bites it.
There is actually good reason to suppose the spider will be retained as his first kill. The alternate trailer ending made a big deal out of the fact that Bilbo's sword didn't have a name because it hadn't seen battle, which by Chekov's law means the writers will make a big deal out of him giving it one once it finally does. I believe we've already had a glimpse of that scene, occurring right where it should.
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Sep 26 2012, 8:58pm
Post #21 of 77
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I was thinking about this shot too, Milknut, but I keep wondering if this is in the cave shot
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or elsewhere? There is a tree in there for one thing. A tree could grow in a cave, but I cannot tell if this pic is entirely enclosed, or just near a rocky overhang of some sort. I hope you are right. I think this is a great shot. But in one of the clips where Bifur is shown playing with a Dwarvern toy, and they are clearly in a cave, there is no sign of this tree, nor of Gandalf, and I've not seen him in any of the shots on the path up into the mountains. I come bearing proof. I believe this scene from trailer 1 (at about 1:38) is the scene in the cave before they go to sleep and get taken by the goblins.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Sep 26 2012, 9:15pm
Post #22 of 77
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This is the picture I was talking about.
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And I see no sign of tree or of Thaumaturge (Wizard) in it, which concerns me. I suspect this is when Bilbo wakes first and just manages a squeak with the horrible wall crack nightmare (precursor to the recent Doctor Who theme?)
trailer 2: 2:13
Also, what does Bifur have in his hand- it's some sort of bird toy? if you scrub slowly through you can see it's wings flap.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Carne
Dor-Lomin
Sep 26 2012, 9:27pm
Post #23 of 77
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The tree is at the front of the cave though, Bilbo could be in the back
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And only Bifur and Balin can be seen, but that doesn't mean the others aren't there.
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Sep 26 2012, 9:34pm
Post #24 of 77
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That is exactly why it is a concern. Because it is a great scene which doesn't need
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any alteration. Indeed, alteration could ruin a great scene. Yet just because a scene doesn't need to be tinkered with does not mean it is warded against the possibility of busy hands messing with it just the same.
Three things occur to my mind. One is how grudging Jackson is towards allowing Gandalf's magic to shine through, and the others are the business of The Wizards search of Dol Guldur, along with Jackson's comment that "in the book, Gandalf keeps dissapearing" which is actually only half true. Gandalf only parts ways with the company twice. Once before the Trollshaws and again on the edge of Mirkwood. For him to leave them more than once in the first film, if the first film never makes it to Mirkwood, would be a departure.
If the troll scene only allows enough time for a visit with Radagast, then it is not impossible that Jackson might have Gandalf leave the company prior to reaching The Misty Mountains, only returning, perhaps after some dramatic encounter in Dol Guldur, to save the company from The Goblins at the last minute.
I'm mystified as to why this is even a concern. What possible reason is there to change the events? It works in the book so what reason is there to change it?
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Sep 26 2012, 10:08pm
Post #25 of 77
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Although we can only see four of the party in that shot in total.
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I assume the others are out of shot.
LR
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