|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
AlatarielNoldo
Nevrast
Aug 30 2012, 3:07pm
Post #1 of 35
(8040 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Runes on Orcrist scabbard *possible spoiler*
|
Can't Post
|
|
I came across a photo on the Weta Collectors Forum that somewhat clearly shows the runes on the scabbard for Orcrist. Has anyone deciphered them yet? I did a search on the Internet and haven't really found anything.
Here's a link to the photo:
http://wetacollectors.com/...909&postcount=69
I believe it's in Angerthas, and this is what I've come up with so far.
H_RN * O * _ORW * ITHLUIG * UI * NI * MADWEG * A * SUIG
The only words I can make out in Sindarin are the following:
UI = always, everlasting, eternal
NI = I
MADWEG = gluttonous
A = and
I apologize if this has already been talked about.
But in Lindon Gil-Galad still maintained his power, and Sauron dared not as yet to pass the Mountains of Ered Luin nor to assail the Havens.
[The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]
(This post was edited by AlatarielNoldo on Aug 30 2012, 3:14pm)
|
|
|
elevorn
Menegroth
Aug 30 2012, 3:18pm
Post #2 of 35
(6755 views)
Shortcut
|
I may be way off here. But I have to ask, why is the inscription in runes? and why Sindarin? Does anyone know what would have been the writing language of Gondolin at the time these were made? I'm quite out of practice but could find those answers with some research, but can't until I get home from work. Maybe I am missing something here. WETA does a good job of getting things right, so I hate to question.
Great find!
"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com
|
|
|
DanielLB
Elvenhome
Aug 30 2012, 3:21pm
Post #3 of 35
(6759 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Perhaps the inscription is added after the Quest of Erebor?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
In a similar way as Sting?
|
|
|
elevorn
Menegroth
Aug 30 2012, 3:30pm
Post #4 of 35
(6695 views)
Shortcut
|
But is it "kosher" that they would release a post movie design before the movie comes out. Its a matter of preferrence I suppose but as a collector I would personally rather have the pre quest version from Gondolin, than the post quest version if that is what it is. However I know there are runes on Glamdring because I had the replica for a while. So really i don't suppose the runes are the problem, now its a question of proper language and translation. I love the design and now I am really regretting letting my sword replics go. I may have to ask for my Anduril back.
"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com
|
|
|
AlatarielNoldo
Nevrast
Aug 30 2012, 3:37pm
Post #5 of 35
(6683 views)
Shortcut
|
|
It does seem a bit odd to me too
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Gondolin was home of the Noldorin and Sindarin elves under Turgon. Even though they spoke Sindarin,Quenya was said to be spoken in the royal house and so I would expect it to be used for important things and for inscriptions.
Maeglin lived in Gondolin, and he was the son of Eol who had been friends with the dwarves of the Blue Mountains. Could Maeglin have had a hand in their making?
But in Lindon Gil-Galad still maintained his power, and Sauron dared not as yet to pass the Mountains of Ered Luin nor to assail the Havens.
[The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]
|
|
|
Earl
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 30 2012, 3:41pm
Post #6 of 35
(6691 views)
Shortcut
|
It looks like the runes continue off the scabbard and into the crescent shaped pommel.
I'm terrible at this sort of thing, but I know the specialists to consult  I've messages Ryszard from Gwaith-i-Phethdain/Elendilion with a link to your post.
He should be able to present this before some of the most knowledgeable audiences out there.
The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.
|
|
|
elevorn
Menegroth
Aug 30 2012, 3:42pm
Post #7 of 35
(6666 views)
Shortcut
|
I don't think so, he was so self absorbed that I don't think he would have been involved with that. I'm sick today and my memory is not working well, but who was the guy who made all the famous blades, was it Telko, Telkor? I may be way off and really need a nap. I would think the language written would be High Elvish, so maybe a more Quenya lexicon will provide the correct interpretation.
"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com
|
|
|
QuackingTroll
Doriath
Aug 30 2012, 3:43pm
Post #8 of 35
(6707 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Goblets they carved there for themselves
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I assume Erebor had some cutting and forging machinery, for the dwarves to create their treasures. Perhaps to test if it's all in working order they carve inscriptions into their weapons? I know, I'm wandering into fan-fiction again.
|
|
|
elevorn
Menegroth
Aug 30 2012, 3:47pm
Post #9 of 35
(6646 views)
Shortcut
|
This thought just occured, there wouldn't be added stuff on Orcrist, it was buried with Thorin, and unsheathed at that. So the inscription would need to be from Gondolin. The dwarves wouldnt have had the sword at the time they made the goblets.
"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com
|
|
|
Macfeast
Nargothrond
Aug 30 2012, 3:47pm
Post #10 of 35
(6650 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The inscription is there during the Quest.//
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
QuackingTroll
Doriath
Aug 30 2012, 3:49pm
Post #11 of 35
(6637 views)
Shortcut
|
Was that when Thorin and Co. get to Erebor, before the battle they'll want to check if the machines still work, so they scribe their weapons. Not a likely scenario, but it kinda works
|
|
|
AlatarielNoldo
Nevrast
Aug 30 2012, 3:50pm
Post #12 of 35
(6647 views)
Shortcut
|
He was a dwarf from the Blue Mountains and made Narsil and Angrist.
And you're right, Maeglin was probably too self absorbed to make anything for the high-elves under Turgon. Especially since it was him that betrayed Gondolin.
But in Lindon Gil-Galad still maintained his power, and Sauron dared not as yet to pass the Mountains of Ered Luin nor to assail the Havens.
[The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]
|
|
|
DanielLB
Elvenhome
Aug 30 2012, 3:52pm
Post #14 of 35
(6649 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Inscribed, and then placed in/on
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Thorin's tomb.
Clutching straws?
|
|
|
AlatarielNoldo
Nevrast
Aug 30 2012, 3:52pm
Post #15 of 35
(6637 views)
Shortcut
|
Hopefully his group can help shed some light on this. 
But in Lindon Gil-Galad still maintained his power, and Sauron dared not as yet to pass the Mountains of Ered Luin nor to assail the Havens.
[The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]
(This post was edited by AlatarielNoldo on Aug 30 2012, 3:53pm)
|
|
|
Macfeast
Nargothrond
Aug 30 2012, 3:56pm
Post #16 of 35
(6654 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The promo shots have the inscription present.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Like this one, or this one.
Now, even if we leave those shots out on account of the potential misleadingness of pure promotion material, the picture of Thorin from this thread (a picture which now unfortunately is not available) had the inscription present, and that picture was most definitely genuine from Quest of Erebor-footage.
(This post was edited by Macfeast on Aug 30 2012, 4:06pm)
|
|
|
QuackingTroll
Doriath
Aug 30 2012, 3:58pm
Post #17 of 35
(6595 views)
Shortcut
|
|
If it was buried unsheathed...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Then the sheath may not have been buried at all. So where's the problem? 
|
|
|
elevorn
Menegroth
Aug 30 2012, 3:59pm
Post #18 of 35
(6568 views)
Shortcut
|
Its hard to think with stuffed up head. Daniel has the most likely scenario(if they were added), maybe with a clearer picture one could make out the runes better and then we would have a more concise answer.
"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com
|
|
|
elevorn
Menegroth
Aug 30 2012, 4:13pm
Post #19 of 35
(6625 views)
Shortcut
|
|
This link had some neat stuff too
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Not sure if this helps anyone and it is from another blog, can't remember the policy on linking other sites at the moment but I'm sure the mods will correct me properly if I am wrong. Also some really good shots of Thorin (Armitage).
Link here
apologies ahead of time if this violates the rules, its my first attempt at a link.
"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com
|
|
|
DanielLB
Elvenhome
Aug 30 2012, 4:17pm
Post #20 of 35
(6570 views)
Shortcut
|
|
It shouldn't be a problem at all
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
This is DarkJackal's blog (a regular TORn user).
|
|
|
AlatarielNoldo
Nevrast
Aug 30 2012, 4:28pm
Post #21 of 35
(6555 views)
Shortcut
|
The photos at Heirs of Durin are very clear, just not big enough to zoom in on the detail. Maybe DarkJackal has a higher res photo of the scabbard?
But in Lindon Gil-Galad still maintained his power, and Sauron dared not as yet to pass the Mountains of Ered Luin nor to assail the Havens.
[The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age]
|
|
|
DarkJackal
Nargothrond
Aug 30 2012, 7:45pm
Post #22 of 35
(6462 views)
Shortcut
|
I have nothing that comes close to the image you link to in your first post. Very clear that is! Wonder if both sides of the scabbard have the same runes.
|
|
|
Elthir
Hithlum
Aug 30 2012, 8:03pm
Post #23 of 35
(6492 views)
Shortcut
|
The names Glamdring and Orcrist are Sindarin, and runes were used to inscribe things anyway (generally speaking). The scabbard kind of matches I guess.
I'm not sure the form Orkhrist/Orchrist (found in Etymologies) needed to be employed on Orcrist (for the film), since Orcrist was published by Tolkien with no real indication that this was an alteration of what was actually written on the sword. But Orkhrist would still mean 'Goblin cleaver' in any case.
In the external scenario (at the time Tolkien wrote The Hobbit) the Exiled Noldor did not bring Quenya from Aman. They ultimately spoke Noldorin in Middle-earth and these names would be considered Noldorin. In the updated scenario these names 'become' Sindarin by default in any case.
This probably also explains why Frodo seems to say that the name Elbereth reveals High Elves. This name was Noldorin as well, and when it became 'Sindarin' Frodo's statement then seems to refer to 'High Elves' as in Eldar rather than Noldor.
|
|
|
Elthir
Hithlum
Aug 30 2012, 8:30pm
Post #24 of 35
(6451 views)
Shortcut
|
By the way I'm somewhat simplifying the external scenario with respect to Gnomish and Noldorin during the period in which Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, using Noldorin for simplicity (Gnomish generally refers to an even earlier form [externally earlier] of the language that would ultimately become Sindarin)...
... but the main point is that these Sword names never began as Quenya and become some sort of Sindarin after Tolkien somewhat drastically revised the history of the Elvish tongues. Glamdring cannot be Quenya due to its initial sound for example, and in any case Gnomish and later 'Noldorin' (or phases of these languages) were the external precursors of the language that would later become Sindarin.
Confusingly enough
(This post was edited by Elthir on Aug 30 2012, 8:34pm)
|
|
|
Elthir
Hithlum
Aug 30 2012, 9:06pm
Post #25 of 35
(6421 views)
Shortcut
|
Correction: I should not have said, with respect to an earlier rejected scenario even, that the Exiled Noldor did not 'bring' Quenya from Aman, but rather that they spoke Noldorin in Aman (which became changed in Beleriand by the influence of 'Ilkorin') and that Quenya was a high book-tongue brought from Aman by the Noldor as well. It's just that they spoke Noldorin at this point, as their main, living language.
In the ultimate scenario the Noldor brought Quenya from Aman and spoke it as a living language, adopting Sindarin in Middle-earth and so on. Although even the scenario in the 1930s changes and is rather confusing to easily explain...
... especially when edit abilities expire. Sorry for three boring posts that I have taken off topic somehow all by myself. LOL!
Carry on
(This post was edited by Elthir on Aug 30 2012, 9:08pm)
|
|
|
|
|
1
