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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Brown Wizard Revealed! (Major spoilers following)
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Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 10:01pm

Post #76 of 131 (708 views)
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I don't think I understand this [In reply to] Can't Post

In principle, how is that any different from his exit halfway through FOTR and failure to turn up in the rest of the LOTR story?

LR


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:07pm

Post #77 of 131 (728 views)
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I was assuming that Radagast simply went back to his home [In reply to] Can't Post

rather than an explicit statement of him refusing to help ever again. If that's the case, then it would be fine. But if he just goes home and is never mentioned in the LOTR trilogy, then would seem very out of place. Everyone will be asking where he is.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 10:11pm

Post #78 of 131 (721 views)
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Nope - maybe it's me [In reply to] Can't Post

But why isn't this a question people are asking themselves when reading the latter two and half books of LOTR?
And if it isn't a question there...why would it be here?

LR


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:13pm

Post #79 of 131 (749 views)
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Because it is explained! He's missing! [In reply to] Can't Post

All I'm saying is that if Radagast is shown happily returning home, rather than a) refusing to ever help again, b) die or c) go missing, then it will look odd.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 10:22pm

Post #80 of 131 (785 views)
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Well he's out when the scouts call [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know if that constitutes missing! I'm often not at home when the postman calls but I'm not sure that's an indication that I've gone missing.

Surely it's the same for Beorn? And Dain?

LR


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Aug 22 2012, 10:25pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:27pm

Post #81 of 131 (698 views)
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You miss the postman because you go shopping, or go to work. [In reply to] Can't Post

Since Radagast wasn't there, and no-one had any indication of where he was, that's missing in my books.

He hadn't gone to the off licence to get some fags. He wasn't there, couldn't be found (either didn't want to be, or captured), and thus, missing.

And Beorn and Dain are very different. Beorn had died before the War of the Ring, and Dain was busy defending Erebor.


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 22 2012, 10:29pm)


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 10:38pm

Post #82 of 131 (697 views)
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Well that's one reading [In reply to] Can't Post

but all it actually says is "Radagast was not there". It doesn't say that he couldn't be found. It doesn't actually say anyone looked for him. I don't know about shops or fags but I would imagine him out walking and communing with nature rather a lot (rather than sitting in waiting for the doorbell perhaps).

And I know where Beorn and Dain were but I thought the thesis was that characters who appear in TH will cause confusion if absent from LOTR. So I was checking if you thought specific sick-notes would be needed for these guys as well?

LR


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Aug 22 2012, 10:42pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 10:43pm

Post #83 of 131 (681 views)
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they could play it off as something I am sure [In reply to] Can't Post

one sentence of dialogue could take care of anything they come up with either way Wink. but according to what Tolkien wrote they went to get his help and he was gone. If they play him off as a nomad and someone who could just wander off at anytime it would work fine. Gandalf shows up and he's simply gone, Gandalf tosses it up to he's out wandering.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:47pm

Post #84 of 131 (749 views)
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They're pretty rubbish scouts if they just knocked on his door [In reply to] Can't Post

and walked away if no-one answered. I'm sure more happened than what was written. If Elrond had sent scouts to find Radagast, then I'm sure they looked! For all purposes, Radagast was missing., because we don't know where he is. Whether he was actually "missing" or not is a different matter. He may have not wanted to be found.

No, not all characters need a sick note. Because we know where they are. I'm simply saying he cannot happily leave whoever/wherever, and live happily ever after in Rhosgobel.

But anyway, I'm not sure you're ever going to get my point. I don't know whether that is because of my point, or that I'm not explaining it good enough ....


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 22 2012, 10:49pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Aug 22 2012, 10:50pm

Post #85 of 131 (689 views)
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I don't recall them saying he "couldn't be found." [In reply to] Can't Post

Only that he "wasn't there."

Just because he's not actively involved in the human affairs, it doesn't mean he didn't have other duties and interests. Maybe he was out making the rounds of his animal friends, to get news, or to see if any of them needed care.

Unless he's under house arrest, I don't see why him not being there implies that something is wrong.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:51pm

Post #86 of 131 (691 views)
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His house doesn't look like he's a nomad / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:54pm

Post #87 of 131 (692 views)
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That's if you simply read the text as it is on the page [In reply to] Can't Post

You really think the scouts turned up, knocked on his door, then walked away? I doubt it - they would have searched and looked for him, try to find any indications where he was, and stayed more than 5 minutes to see if he showed up. Elrond sent scouts to find him.

He's missing because no-one (apart from himself) knows where he is. Whether he was actually missing or not is a different matter. For all purposes of the story, he wasn't there, and therefore missing!


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 10:59pm

Post #88 of 131 (677 views)
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Well don't worry [In reply to] Can't Post

It's the purpose of the board to talk after all!

But I also don't think Elrond sent scouts to find Radagast, as you put it. Why do you think that? The scouts were sent in every direction to seek for signs of the enemy's forces (especially the Nazgul).

I know that book readers know where Dain/ Beorn were, but film-only viewers won't, so I'm interested that you don't think that would be a problem but you do think Radagast would.

LR


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Aug 22 2012, 10:59pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 10:59pm

Post #89 of 131 (670 views)
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I guess I'm under the assumption [In reply to] Can't Post

that he got tired of dealing with men and elves and dwarves, other wizards and society in general and just picked up and went away. Rather being alone with nature and the animals. Who knows Maybe to the same place the Blue wizards went. But I think he just would rather have been alone with his animals and not deal with others of the humanoid persuasion. I'm sure he could have been found if he wanted to be Wink


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Aug 22 2012, 11:01pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:03pm

Post #90 of 131 (701 views)
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That's why epilogues can be good things [In reply to] Can't Post

And another reason why they should have had Gandalf explain what had happened in The Return of the King.

You're right that Elrond hadn't sent the scouts to specifically find Radagast, my mistake. But my point still stands.

If I go to someone's house, and they are not in, leave no indication where they are, I cannot contact them or find them, and don't show up while I am there, then from my point of view, they are missing.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:06pm

Post #91 of 131 (690 views)
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I'm not disagreeing with this [In reply to] Can't Post

Like you say, he needs an "end", and not just to dissapear off screen.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 11:09pm

Post #92 of 131 (652 views)
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Well I kind of think [In reply to] Can't Post

That my original point was it probably doesn't need an epilogue as it doesn't cause anyone a great worry in the book. He plays a part but it's finite.

I'm not quite sure what to say to your second bit! Missing like you'd call the police missing? If you called round unexpectedly and they weren't in (and hadn't left a note on the door saying where they were) ?

LR


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 22 2012, 11:15pm

Post #93 of 131 (722 views)
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Not to mention Väinämöinen . . . [In reply to] Can't Post

Prof. Tolkien had studied the Kalavala . . . some believe he was another influence on Gandalf, or maybe Saruman, or both.


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:16pm

Post #94 of 131 (681 views)
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The general audience probably won't care at all what happens to Radagast, Beorn or Dain. [In reply to] Can't Post

And obviously, I wouldn't call the police. Mainly because I wouldn't turn up unexpectedly (without any prior notice), and they'd probably be down that off licence buying fags.

But from the person's point of you, whether it is me, you, the Queen of Sheba, or the Elven scouts, if they cannot find the person they are looking for, then from that person's point of view, they are presumed missing. The person may in fact not be missing - they may be on holiday, out for a walk, buying fags, kidnapped, dead, hiding and/or somewhere else, but for the person on the doorstep they do not know this.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Aug 22 2012, 11:16pm

Post #95 of 131 (683 views)
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Actually, it does say that Radagast was sought for... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
but all it actually says is "Radagast was not there". It doesn't say that he couldn't be found. It doesn't actually say anyone looked for him. I don't know about shops or fags but I would imagine him out walking and communing with nature rather a lot (rather than sitting in waiting for the doorbell perhaps).

LR



Several scouts from Rivendell had gone specifically seeking after Radagast:


Quote

Many had gone east and south; and some of these had crossed the Mountains and entered Mirkwood, while others had climbed the pass at the source of the Gladden River, and had come down into Wilderland and over the Gladden Fields and so at length had reached the old home of Radagast at Rhosbobel. Radagast was not there; and they had returned over the high pass that was called the Dimrill Stair.



The implication is that the scouts searched the area for him, at least for a while. It's unlikely that they just knocked on the door and simply left when there was no answer. If Radagast had turned up later, one would think that it would have at least received a mention in the Appendices. Saruman may have had him assassinated; he may have gone into hiding. Tolkien leaves his disappearance as an unsolved mystery.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 22 2012, 11:21pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 11:17pm

Post #96 of 131 (633 views)
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as it should be IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

"Tolkien leaves his disappearance as an unsolved mystery."Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:21pm

Post #97 of 131 (614 views)
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Yes, they should leave it as a mystery [In reply to] Can't Post

But as I've been trying to say, there should be some indication that he didn't go back to live there happily ever after.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 11:24pm

Post #98 of 131 (637 views)
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Don't think I agree with that. [In reply to] Can't Post

If you read the next paragraph it details the results of (and thus reasons for) the scouting - discerning whether it was safe for the ring to leave.

I would also suggest that your take is less likely an explanation because
1. We have no idea why Elrond would be mounting such a large scale search for Radagast
2. We are not told of any implications of not finding him after such a large search
3. If they were searching for him all over why only mention that he wasn't at Rhosgobel and not say they could not find him anywhere.

I don't think that stacks up to me.

LR


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 11:25pm

Post #99 of 131 (635 views)
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Maybe they will show Gandalf and Bilbo stopping by on their way home after its all over and the place will just be vacant and empty... [In reply to] Can't Post

its a thought anyways Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:27pm

Post #100 of 131 (624 views)
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Yup, that would be fine with me [In reply to] Can't Post

And get across to the audience that he doesn't want anymore to do with wars, battles and baddies.

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