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Radagast-Aiwendil
Mithlond
Aug 4 2012, 9:35am
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(If) A remastered LOTR is made, what will we see?
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I know that this has been talked about before, and I know that the chance of this occurrence is highly unlikely, but if it did happen, what would you like to see?
Some of my ideas:
Brief addition to prologue mentioning Sauron's rise and fall in Mirkwood.
Gandalf meets Radagast on the way to Saruman, and asks him to send help to Isengard. Therefore, the moth is sent to Orthanc by Radagast, and Gandalf then sends for Gwaihir.
Possible additions of 'Hobbit' Dwarves in the background at The Council of Elrond.
Possible flashback of Balin in Moria (If not included in The Hobbit).
More references to Hobbit-related characters in general.
However, even if this was done I could only see it being done with FOTR, as it wouldn't be all that relevant in TTT or ROTK.
"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Aug 4 2012, 9:53am
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would be the war in the North during the final events of the War of the Ring (i.e. Dale, Mirkwood, Erebor etc, and the destruction of Dol Guldur [assuming we don't get that in the new films]).
The other things I would like to see are scenes that would add more to the characters - such as Denethor's madnes and the relationship between Faramir and Eowyn. I always thought that they should have shown Grima poisoning Theodred. The Paths of the Dead scenes *need* to be changed ...
The problem also is, that one could get carried away with adding new (and/or altered scenes) to the trilogy. You could add Bombadil and the Old Forest, you could add Radagast, you could change the Council of Elrond, you could add Glorfindel etc ... but it would change the trilogy dramatically. It would be a massive task to do.
And to be honest, I'd rather just have a new adaptation, rather than a overhaul of the trilogy.
A comment about your suggestion:
Gandalf meets Radagast on the way to Saruman, and asks him to send help to Isengard. Therefore, the moth is sent to Orthanc by Radagast, and Gandalf then sends for Gwaihir.
Gandalf didn't suspect Saruman, why would he ask Radagast to send for help when he didn't know what Saruman was doing until he got to Orthanc. If anything, it should be like the book.
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Radagast-Aiwendil
Mithlond
Aug 4 2012, 1:28pm
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I am referring to when Gandalf says to Radagast: "We shall need your help, and the help of all things that can give it. Send out messages to all the beasts and birds that are your friends. Tell them to bring news of anything that bears on this matter to Saruman and Gandalf. Let messages be sent to Orthanc."
"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Aug 4 2012, 1:35pm
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I thought you meant Gandalf was expecting trouble. 
Carry on!
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Radagast-Aiwendil
Mithlond
Aug 4 2012, 1:41pm
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I agree very much with you about additions such as The Battle of Erebor, Mirkwood, Lorien etc. I had quite overlooked that side of things, and they would certainly be nice additions to The Return of the King.
"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.
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Hanzkaz
Nargothrond
Aug 4 2012, 4:23pm
Post #6 of 59
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would be the war in the North during the final events of the War of the Ring (i.e. Dale, Mirkwood, Erebor etc, and the destruction of Dol Guldur [assuming we don't get that in the new films]).
- They may decide to skip the Dol Guldur part of the War of the Ring (especially if the Necromancer's fortress gets destroyed during the Hobbit Trilogy). The War in the North may be shown as a series of 'Middle-Earth under siege' -type scenes. Instead of these various battles leading to the second Battle of Dol Guldur, they could just show the various places under attack being 'saved' by the destruction of Sauron's Ring.
(Lorien, Rivendell, Dale (assuming it hasn't already been overrun) and Erebor are surrounded by countless hordes and darkened skies. Suddenly the clouds part and the sun shines through. A great and terrible fear comes upon the minions of Sauron and they flee.....etc, etc.)
I suppose it is possible that 'The Return of the King' could somehow be re-edited as a two-parter.
(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Aug 4 2012, 4:27pm)
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Aug 4 2012, 4:29pm
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I hope they don't mess with timelines
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Even though Sauron had fled to Barad-dur, Dol Guldur was still an important threat.
If Dol Guldur is destroyed before the War of the Ring, then the forces that attack of Lorien and Mirkwood must come from Mordor. Yes, it could still work, but it is a needless change.
They can semi-destroy it in The Hobbit, but I don't think it should be a total destruction.
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Hanzkaz
Nargothrond
Aug 4 2012, 5:12pm
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If they want to keep things relatively simple -
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If Dol Guldur is destroyed before the War of the Ring, then the forces that attack of Lorien and Mirkwood must come from Mordor. Yes, it could still work, but it is a needless change.
- they might have to keep Dol Guldur out of new 'War in the North' scenes. Otherwise, they might as well just make an entirely new movie. They would also have to try and avoid the 'Battle of Dol Guldur Ver 2.0' effect and ensure both battles at the Necromancer's fortress aren't virtually identical.
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Aug 4 2012, 5:42pm
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Although I think (cinematically) it would be quite easy to structure both attacks/battles differently. The first is discovering the identity of the Necromancer, the second is the destruction of the stronghold.
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Spaldron
Ossiriand
Aug 5 2012, 1:51am
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So stop talking like its going to happen when its not. PJ will never do "a Lucas" and re-do The Trilogy.
"A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities."
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guitarzankansasfan
Menegroth
Aug 5 2012, 4:22am
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I don't think PJ is inclined to do what Lucas did to Star Wars, thank goodness. Lucas has his own reasons for doing stuff, and PJ isn't him.
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Lurker in the Dark
Lindon
Aug 5 2012, 4:25am
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Taking another tack, could we have a re-mastered Extended Edition in 3D? My thoughts on that:
To go with my Extended Edition LotR on DVD I bought a 47" LG LCD 'Smart' TV, on which it looks beautiful. The TV comes ready for 3D, with bi-colour specs, but can also do 2D to 3D.
I can't say that 2D to 3D is brilliant but it does work after a fashion, better in some scenes than others. LG is coy about how their system works but there is apparently some algorithm running in real-time that takes the 2D representation frame by frame, tries to select what is foreground and what is background and pixelates it into 27 levels of 'depth'. My perception is that it works best when the camera is panning with a distant, panoramic backdrop and contained action in the foreground, and I suspect that part at any way of the algorithm uses the relative motion of pixels to establish 'distance' - shots like the four Hobbits fleeing from Farmer Maggot towards the bluff, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas running over Rohan and the charge of the Rohirrim on the Pelinnor are spectacular, tighter shots don't work as well and static shots, such as the view of Helm's Deep before the refugees arrive, don't work at all.
It also takes time for the algorithm to have an effect - if it's going to work there is an almost immediate effect but I'd say it takes a full second or more for the full perspective to develop so it's only for relatively long scenes that it really has an impact, and overall it can be rather disconcerting as the 'depth' visibly appears - rather like Frodo looking down the lane before the Black Rider appears.
On the TV it only works in real time but I've a feeling that with the necessary processing power, memory and the ability to replay the DVD and run certain scenes through several times, perhaps slowed down, to build up a '3D version' on hdd it would be possible even with this relatively simple algorithm and some basic software, to produce an acceptable 3D version of much of the three films - leaving not too much to be done 'manually'. From this I would say that if New Line wanted to, it has the technology and the genius in New Zealand to re-master the existing LotR footage into an acceptable 3D version without spending a fortune.
But is there any point?
From what I've seen on LotR using fake 3D, filming in real 3D as PJ is doing for the Hobbit is a whole new ball game requiring a whole new approach to directing. Where the fake 3D works a cut in the scene to a new perspective is a much bigger shock to the system than it is in 2D. With 3D you are 'in' the scene, so physically moving to a new point of view is like being moved around a room, or a cave, in the blink of an eye and the brain has to 're-build' the location of everything you are looking at in 3D space to make sense of it. I've a suspicion - and what I've seen from the production blogs doesn't counter this - that shots in the Hobbit in 3D are going to be longer in duration and changes in perspective are going to be carried with camera motion rather than cutting between cameras so as to maintain 3d 'continuity'. I also suspect there will be far fewer close-in face-to-face-to-face exchanges as per the Frodo-Sam-Gollum exchanges on the stair to Cirith Ungol on RotK, as in 3D it's like sticking your face right into the character's for a hongi.
For these reasons the existing LotR footage really isn't happy in 3D as it wasn't made with 3D in mind, so I doubt there would be any point remastering it in 3D.
I believe in the Appendices to the Extended Version having finally delivered the finished RotK Peter Jackson vowes never to do three films at once again. Well, he's now not only doing it, but doing it subject to a whole brand-new set of rules, limitations and possibilities arising from 3D. Talk about boldly going where no man has gone before.
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Nightingale
Nargothrond
Aug 5 2012, 10:06am
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remastering the 'theatrical release' to tie in with the material of 'the Hobbit' films. Apart from the whole Gandalf/Radagast thing, I can't think of anything specific. To be honest, I don't think this needs to happen just for the sake of continuity, and I wouldn't want to see the films become too unwieldy.
However, if it was marketed purely as an 'extended extended edition'. there is loads of material which I would like to see, in particular:
- Hama suggesting that Eowyn could lead those left behind as a lady of the house of Eorl.
- Eowyn and Faramir's wedding - I believe there was some talk by a costume lady (can't remember names sorry!) that this was one of the scenes she was most proud of.
-Frodo's dinner with Gloin and evening in Rivendell
-Ioreth!
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
"That line between the earth and sky came beckoning to me..." - Laurie's Song
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Patty
Elvenhome
Aug 6 2012, 9:07am
Post #14 of 59
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We are getting a TV that does 2D to 3D conversion, and I wondered how that will look. Not brilliant, huh?
Permanent address: Into the West
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Spaldron
Ossiriand
Aug 6 2012, 4:11pm
Post #15 of 59
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I really hope we don't get a 3D conversion
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I'm sceptical enough about proper 3D but converting old films into the format is a crime and a pure cash grab IMO. It will just make the film look dark and blurry and serve no purpose at all. LOTR was shot in glorious 35mm and should stay that way.
No 3D for LOTR period!
"A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities."
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Celedor
Ossiriand
Aug 7 2012, 12:35pm
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I agree that it's unlikely Jackson will change The Lord of the Rings like Lucas with Star Wars. If he was going to do so, the first thing he would probably do would be to replace Gollum in The Fellowship of the Ring with the finalized design from The Two Towers. The fact that they didn't do this for the Blu-ray version means that either Jackson has decided to leave it alone or he was too busy. (Although I guess in a way Fellowship of the Ring was changed, considering the often talked about green tint.)
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Aug 7 2012, 12:37pm
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Or because you can hardly tell?
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I can't tell it's a slightly different design when watching it. Only if you pause, get close to the screen, and then compare it with another picture of Gollum. 
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Oscarilbo
Menegroth
Aug 7 2012, 5:40pm
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If PJ does it, it won't be a "Lucas" but a "Peter Jackson", and that means done it right. And he would not be changing anything integral but only adding (with the exception of the definitive Gollum design in FOTR).
He mentions in the commentary of ROTK that he would have loved to have more time and money and be able to show other realms of Middle Earth also in battle, so we as public could understand that this thread was all over ME.
Maybe Now he is doing The Hobbit he may think more scenes like the ones he mention could be even more justified. Personally I think they could work just fine mainly because they are not changes at all, but only quick additional moments that could bring even more depth.
"The World is Changed, I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air"
(This post was edited by Oscarilbo on Aug 7 2012, 5:45pm)
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Patty
Elvenhome
Aug 8 2012, 1:04pm
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I thought I was the only one, Daniel...
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I often hear folks talk about this, but I can't tell a big difference, myself.
Permanent address: Into the West
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Aug 8 2012, 3:49pm
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I prefer the design of prologue Gollum to the one we finally got in TTT...
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stoutfiles
Nargothrond
Aug 14 2012, 7:34pm
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-Replacing FOTR Gollum with the CGI model used in TT and ROTK.
-Replacing Ian Holm with Martin Freeman finding the Ring using a scene from The Hobbit.
I think that's about it. Any references to what the Dwarves do after their quest should be wrapped up in The Hobbit, not dragged into LOTR.
I believe Radagast will be killed in Dol Guldur as PJ likes to have someone important die in all his battles. He even put characters in battles they weren't at so someone important would die (Haldir).
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kzer_za
Menegroth
Aug 14 2012, 7:51pm
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RotK EE already has a line referencing the dwarves going to war //
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JWPlatt
Hithlum
Aug 15 2012, 12:34am
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One hopes they will correct The Green Tint problem on the Extended Edition Blu-ray, to which, by their silence, Warner Brothers and Peter Jackson (if he is not muzzled) continue to refuse to address. I say that as a fan of his work on the Lord of the Rings films.
(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Aug 15 2012, 12:36am)
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Patty
Elvenhome
Aug 15 2012, 3:27pm
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Here, here./ (or is it hear, hear?)/
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Permanent address: Into the West
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