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Magpie
Elvenhome
Feb 24 2007, 6:27pm
Post #1 of 30
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Car Talk LOTR puzzle
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My son was listening to Car Talk (a US public radio humorous, car repair show) and caught this week's puzzler which was about LOTR. He's working off memory, and Car Talk's website doesn't list the new puzzler until Monday, end of day.
What he remembers is that there is a word found in LOTR that's an old word (but English and in a modern dictionary) where none of the letters in the singular form of the word appear in the plural form. They also said something about two words that this is true for, but my son didn't catch if both were in LOTR or only one.
Once the puzzle is listed on their site, on can submit an answer online.
no longer just aMagpie... I'm now *the* Magpie
(This post was edited by Magpie on Feb 24 2007, 6:32pm)
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Annael
Elvenhome
Feb 24 2007, 6:55pm
Post #2 of 30
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I know this one! (SPOILERS INSIDE)
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Singular I, plural we; singular me, plural us.
But they're wrong about only two, and I'm betting the one in LOTR is cow/kine.
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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linkin-artelf
Menegroth
Feb 24 2007, 6:58pm
Post #3 of 30
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had to look that one up, it's a unit of weight used in islamic countries.
Cow and kine have no common letters.
Don't know if any of these were used in LOTR though. Maybe kine?
"I walk along the shore and I gaze
At the light that radiates down
Will it travel forth to you
Far across this shimmering sea?"
formerly linkinparkelf
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linkin-artelf
Menegroth
Feb 24 2007, 6:59pm
Post #4 of 30
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a and some
"I walk along the shore and I gaze
At the light that radiates down
Will it travel forth to you
Far across this shimmering sea?"
formerly linkinparkelf
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Magpie
Elvenhome
Feb 24 2007, 7:01pm
Post #5 of 30
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Well, we can't call them 'wrong'
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until we can get the actual puzzle w/o a second-hand, best memory thing.
I/we and me/us... work, if one is actually a plural of the other. I don't know if I'd totally buy that 'we' is a plural of 'I'... one is singular and the other plural, but is one the plural of the other. But that's very nitpicky. It also seems that one wouldn't need to invoke LOTR for I/we and me/us.
But cow/kine seems like a good fit. I had probably zero chance of figuring this out. And I hope you post your answer next week and win a tshirt or something. ;^)
no longer just aMagpie... I'm now *the* Magpie
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NottaSackville
Doriath
Feb 24 2007, 7:16pm
Post #6 of 30
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When I refer to both of me, I always use "we".
Notta
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a.s.
Doriath
Feb 24 2007, 7:54pm
Post #7 of 30
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it's in LOTR (spoiler...maybe)
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.
Cow and kine have no common letters.
Don't know if any of these were used in LOTR though. Maybe kine?
Appendix A: Footnote to "Heirs of Anorian/Stewards of Gondor":
'The wild white kine that were still to be found near the Sea of Rhun were said in legend to be descended from the Kine of Araw, the huntsman of the Valar, who alone of the Valar came often to Middle-Earth in the Elder Days. Orome is the High-elven form of his name."
a.s.
"an seileachan"
The Lost Mod Power: An Elegy (with apologies to Wordsworth)
What though the mod power which was once so bright
Be now FOREVER taken from my sight,
Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splendor in the stats, of glory in the power,
We will grieve not, rather find
Strength in what remains behind.
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Magpie
Elvenhome
Feb 24 2007, 8:00pm
Post #8 of 30
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yes... I was tempted to revert to old behavior... obsessive nitpicking. And then I realized that it worked very well to use 'we' as a plural for 'I' in cases like that. What's good enough for Gollum....
And inside me there's the obsessive, logical, perfectionist warring with the relaxed, humorous, flighty soul. So 'we' will not nitpick, no 'we' won't.
no longer just aMagpie... I'm now *the* Magpie
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 24 2007, 8:00pm
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I was trying to figure out what 'ROTL' was short for. "Rolling on the ... lawn?"
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Aerin
Hithlum
Feb 24 2007, 8:10pm
Post #10 of 30
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I doubt if they meant to include pronouns.
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They're probably just referring to nouns, in which case "cow" and "kine" would work, though "kine" in dictionaries is listed only as archaic (ME cou, kyn). I have no idea what other pair they might be thinking of, or whether "kine" actually is used in LOTR.
BTW, my American Heritage dictionary gives the plural of "I" as "I's"! "I" and "we" are considered to be different words (one singular and one plural), not singular and plural forms of the same word; the same would apply to the other pronouns.
And in the case of "a" and "some" (suggested below), these are different words and diffferent parts of speech (article vs. pronoun or adjective), not singular and plural forms of the same word.
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Aerin
Hithlum
Feb 24 2007, 8:12pm
Post #11 of 30
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Did you remember seeing this? I'm impressed!
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a.s.
Doriath
Feb 24 2007, 8:18pm
Post #12 of 30
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heck no, I just wanted to beat NEB!
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Did you remember seeing this? I'm impressed!
No, I just googled it. Seriously.
Although once I got a hit in Google, I realized I had heard the term "White Kine of Araw" before. Probably in the RR during some discussion of the Appendices.
Of course, we all could have waited for NEB, who has every word of LOTR catalogued in his inimitable way. but this was more fun.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
The Lost Mod Power: An Elegy (with apologies to Wordsworth)
What though the mod power which was once so bright
Be now FOREVER taken from my sight,
Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splendor in the stats, of glory in the power,
We will grieve not, rather find
Strength in what remains behind.
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GaladrielTX
Dor-Lomin
Feb 24 2007, 8:36pm
Post #13 of 30
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Okay, but where is the word (*spoiler*)
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"cow" in LOTR?
~~~~~~~~
I used to be GaladrielTX, but then TX seceded.
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Aerlinn
Menegroth
Feb 24 2007, 8:43pm
Post #14 of 30
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And was surprised when I actually focused.
 | TheOneRing.net – where everybody knows your name!
And J.R.R. Tolkien’s middle names… and the name of his publisher’s son … and the name of Aragorn’s great-great-great- grandfather on his mother’s side… and what Frodo’s name almost was… |
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a.s.
Doriath
Feb 24 2007, 8:47pm
Post #15 of 30
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OK, you know this one, just think about it
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"cow" in LOTR?
It's in a poem. Recited by Frodo.
You'll get it!!
a.s.
"an seileachan"
The Lost Mod Power: An Elegy (with apologies to Wordsworth)
What though the mod power which was once so bright
Be now FOREVER taken from my sight,
Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splendor in the stats, of glory in the power,
We will grieve not, rather find
Strength in what remains behind.
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GaladrielTX
Dor-Lomin
Feb 24 2007, 8:49pm
Post #16 of 30
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The cow throws the ring into the volcano.
Thanks! ;o)
~~~~~~~~
I used to be GaladrielTX, but then TX seceded.
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linkin-artelf
Menegroth
Feb 24 2007, 8:51pm
Post #17 of 30
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'that was quite a cow' and 'those were quite some kine'. Don't the words have the same meaning even if the dictionary calls them different things?
"I walk along the shore and I gaze
At the light that radiates down
Will it travel forth to you
Far across this shimmering sea?"
formerly linkinparkelf
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Magpie
Elvenhome
Feb 24 2007, 8:55pm
Post #18 of 30
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I was trying to figure out if it was
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ROTFL ... or ROTK... and I just kind of set there stupidly for a long time. I have been online and on my computer too long!
no longer just aMagpie... I'm now *the* Magpie
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linkin-artelf
Menegroth
Feb 24 2007, 8:58pm
Post #19 of 30
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I just cut and pasted the words, not thinking to take off the caps.
"I walk along the shore and I gaze
At the light that radiates down
Will it travel forth to you
Far across this shimmering sea?"
formerly linkinparkelf
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Reptile
Ossiriand
Feb 25 2007, 4:43am
Post #20 of 30
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I know this is cheating, but...
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I've also listened to the Car Guy's quite a bit, and it's just like them to cheat. How about rabbit and coneys
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Aerin
Hithlum
Feb 25 2007, 7:33am
Post #21 of 30
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Words can have the same meaning,
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but that doesn't make them the same word. It has to do with their etymology. The words "a" and "some" have different origins. "A" is from the Old English word "an," meaning "one." "Some" is from the Old English word "sum," meaning "a certain one" or "a certain way of being"; as a suffix, it means having a particular quality (as in "troublesome"). The same word is used to mean an uncertain or indefinite quantity of something. The fact that "a" indicates just one of something and "some" can indicate more than one of something doesn't make "some" the plural form of the word "a." "A" doesn't have a plural form.
In your example, though, "some" doesn't even refer to number; you could just as well say, "That was quite some cow." In this (informal) usage, "some" functions an adjective meaning "remarkable", as in "That was some cow!"; "quite" just intensifies "some."
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Feb 25 2007, 11:24am
Post #22 of 30
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The word 'kine' is in LOTR, at any rate:
'"That is the horn that Boromir always wore!" cried Pippin.
"Verily," said Denethor. "And in my turn I bore it, and so did each eldest son of our house, far back into the vanished years before the failing of the kings, since Vorondil father of Mardil hunted the wild kine of Araw in the far fields of Rhûn..."'
'Pippin could see all the Pelennor laid out before him, dotted into the distance with farmsteads and little walls, barns and byres, but nowhere could he see any kine or other beasts.'
(Both from the chapter Minas Tirith)
I think you're right that pronouns aren't eligible. If there is a second noun, I can't help thinking that it will have to start with c-/k- as well. That's the wrinkle that makes this possible - 'c' is normally softened to an 's' sound after an 'i', which is why the initial sound (which is the same in both singular and plural) has to be written differently.
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Feb 25 2007, 11:33am
Post #23 of 30
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before posting mine.
And just for the record, I did recall that 'kine' were mentioned in the description of the lands around Minas Tirith, although I had to hunt for the actual examples.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Feb 25 2007, 12:24pm
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Happy Birthday, Sean! I hope you celebrate the day with family, good food and good friends... and lots of ICE CREAM!!! :D
Cheers, dear sir!
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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hatster
Nargothrond
Feb 25 2007, 12:37pm
Post #25 of 30
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but I have to admit that Annael gave me the idea with cow and kine
I have lost the dwarves and I have lost the wizard, and I don't know where I am; and I don't want to know, if only I can get away.
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