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News From Bree
spymaster@theonering.net
Feb 7 2012, 11:28pm
Post #1 of 22
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A speculative look: The end of the first 'Hobbit' film?
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 Where will The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey end? One of our own takes a speculative look for Movies.com:
Face-to-face conversations about The Hobbit with fans across the U.S. and New Zealand, and online from around the world, often lead to the same place: Where will the films break? Despite being on the minds and spilling out of the mouths of real people in real conversations, little has been written about it.
The production and the team adapting the book can’t be blamed for playing things close to the vest; the book, written by J.R.R. Tolkien, celebrating its 75th anniversary this year, is so well known that they need to keep their secrets so film fans can be surprised by something when they head to the cinema this December for The Hobbit: An Unexpected Party. With that in mind, there are speculative spoilers ahead and you have been warned.
The media, while writing a lot about the films, haven’t looked at the structure of these films too carefully. Today’s digital media environment often gets more clicks from a new still photo than it does from more complex content that requires more patience and so topics at the very core of these two films often get glossed over and ignored.
But not here in The Hobbit countdown! Here we skip past the catch phrase and empty headlines and peer a little deeper into news, rumors, lore and subterfuge to dredge up the best speculation and theory about just where the two films might break, a question that comes up in nearly any Hobbit conversation.
Here are five of the most common and best-defended theories: Read the rest at Movies.com
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easterlingchief1
Ossiriand
Feb 8 2012, 5:06am
Post #2 of 22
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I'd say it's somewhere in Mirkwood
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The Mirkwood chapters are roughly the halfway point of the book. Also, knowing Peter Jackson, he'd be smart and end both films on as emotional a note as possible (e.g. "Sam, I'm glad you're with me" at the ending of Fellowship). But he' also want to make the ending compelling enough plot wise so audiences would feel satisfied despite not getting to see the entire narrative (i.e. "We can get Her to do it" at the end of Two Towers).
I can definitely see the film ending after Bilbo has fought the spiders off and has freed the dwarves. It's an emotional turning point for the Hobbit, since it's when he really taps into his inner courage. Thus we have a complete character arc. Also, the dwarves' opinion about him change after the spider attack, meaning their perceptions of him have completely changed. More character/interpersonal arcs. And, if there is a mystery about what happened to Thorin, the film can end with the hobbit and dwarves searching for him, only for the search to resume in There and Back Again.
Though, since Evangeline Lilly mentioned that she'd be in film 1, maybe we'll be seeing the elves capture the dwarves? Hmm. I somewhat doubt al the moments in the Elven King's Halls would be shown in FIlm 1, if they're show at all. Bilbo breaking the dwarves from the dungeon and their daring escape via barrels would be a great way to inject some conflict/tension/action into the first act of the second film.
Those are my thoughts. What does everyone else think?
(This post was edited by easterlingchief1 on Feb 8 2012, 5:11am)
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Dzhon
Nevrast
Feb 8 2012, 6:58am
Post #3 of 22
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I also think the first film will end shortly after Bilbo arranges the escape from Mirkwood. We'll probably get our first "live" (as opposed to flashback) glimpse of the Lonely Mountain. That would fit best with the style of the trilogy (which PJ is trying to emulate). Neither FotR or TTT ended with a cliffhanger. Because PJ stated that the main reason there will be two films is because they're using "a lot" of appendix material, I also cannot see the White Council / Dol Guldur storyline ending in film one.
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blair85
Lindon
Feb 8 2012, 7:10am
Post #4 of 22
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My thought is that Bilbo fights the spiders freeing the dwarves, returns from the fight only to see them being captured by the elves. and cut with the Hobbit dismayed that his efforts were in vain. Pick up in the next film with the entry to the elf kings halls. I think that allows a cliffhanger for people to want more, picks up with some exposition of the elf king, a quasi-villain/hero for the battle of five armies, while allowing Bilbo to come into his own in an action sequence as the climax of the first movie. Also it allows the action to pick up quickly in the second installment.
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Foromir
Ossiriand
Feb 8 2012, 9:42am
Post #5 of 22
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Why seem people so keen on having a cliffhanger in these films? I think that is just an unsatisfactory tease and reminds me too much of cheap tv episodes structure. If the first film is a success, then who would NOT want to see the conclusion in the second film even without a direct cliffhanger?
(The only cliffhanger I rembemer working in a major movie was in The Empire strikes back, but that was an exception in many ways rather than the rule.)
I would really prefer the break to be after the escape from the Elven king's realm. That would give us a satisfying sense of accomplishment both for the story and also for Bilbo and it could still tease us with that ominous shot of the lonely mountain in the distance, as a reminder that the main antagonist still has to be dealt with.
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Xanaseb
Dor-Lomin
Feb 8 2012, 12:01pm
Post #6 of 22
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and great theories ( I had never heard of the Ring Bling one (which is a bit premature)
But it didnt cover -every- theory/possibility I don't think.
:)
"I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama"
___________
Let us then continue Tolkien's Legendarium!
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Xanaseb
Dor-Lomin
Feb 8 2012, 12:03pm
Post #7 of 22
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Precisely Foromir!, I (and many others) have been arguing for that ending too :)
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and you're right, it certainly doesnt have to be a stereotypical cliff-hanger.......a tiny bit of one yes....but not a complete one.
For example there is a form of cliff-hanger at the end of FotR, with Merry and Pippin being taken away.....
:)
"I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama"
___________
Let us then continue Tolkien's Legendarium!
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Feb 8 2012, 12:15pm
Post #8 of 22
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I hope it doesn't end in Mirkwood after the dwarf capture
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For two reasons:
1. On a narrative level, it would be rather unsatisfyingly negative.
2. I don't want to end the film with likely one hour of dark, fake, psychedelic forest. If what we have seen so far of Mirkwood is the way it looks on screen, it will be aesthetically disappointing, and I wouldn't want to be left for a year with that visual note.
I'm still holding out for a stunning yet slightly ominous shot of the barrels on the river, panning up to the Lonely Mountain.
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Kangi Ska
Gondolin
Feb 8 2012, 1:43pm
Post #9 of 22
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The mystery is not how "The Unexpected Journey" will end (That is obvious.) The Real conundrum is how the movie will start.
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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QuackingTroll
Doriath
Feb 8 2012, 1:54pm
Post #10 of 22
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I hold on to the idea that they'll use Gandalf like FotR and TTT...
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Gandalf leaves them at Mirkwood and we don't see him again (like the Balrog). Then film 1 ends with Bilbo on the Barrel looking at Lonely Mountain (In the book it says at this point something like "Bilbo didn't know it, but Gandalf was just finishing his other business")
Film 2 opens with What Gandalf got up to after his departure and as he finishes his business we cut back to Bilbo waking up on the barrels or at the raft-area before heading off to Laketown.
"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
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blair85
Lindon
Feb 8 2012, 5:13pm
Post #11 of 22
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It's all just speculation and opinion
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I never said my ideas would be best, but that's how I think PJ will do it. I think that barrels out of bond would be an excellent way to begin action in the second film, and ramp up excitement as the film being more epic than the first as opposed to the slow start if it were to begin with the arrival to Laketown followed by feasts and merriment, journey to the mountain, puzzling on the doorstep, etc. Either way, that's how I think PJ will do it, but certainly, I can't know until I actually see the film.
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Feb 8 2012, 10:51pm
Post #12 of 22
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Theory #s 2 and 5 seem most credible to me...
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I was originally a proponent of Theory #5, but (in reverse of the OP) I eventually changed my mind in favor of Theory #2. Guillermo del Toro indicated that, when he was still directly involved in the process, the films would break at a point where Thorin & Co, would rest and recuperate; and without naming it, he seemed to think that there was only one place in the story where that could occur. The way that I see it, about one-quarter of the combined films will be made up of the material taken from the Appendices, with the bulk of it showing up in There and Back Again. I'm not really in favor of the assault on Dol Guldur taking place in the second film, but I think that this is how it will play out.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost.
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TheCoon
Menegroth
Feb 8 2012, 11:00pm
Post #13 of 22
(1028 views)
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THorin Oakensheild
son of thrain
son of thror
king under the mountain
I HAVE RETURNED!!!!!
*roll credits*
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Feb 8 2012, 11:04pm
Post #14 of 22
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Assuming that Bard is being introduced earlier, this may depend on if he appears at the end of the first film or in the beginning of the second.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost.
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Rostron2
Mithlond
Feb 8 2012, 11:51pm
Post #15 of 22
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Elves capture the dwarves, so we get a nice unexpected turn after their battle with the spiders
Bilbo is left alone to figure out what to do next. Maybe he'd even see where they were taken right away. The Ring obviously helps him avoid capture in some way.
The barrrels and the escape is a good start for Film 2.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Feb 9 2012, 1:48am
Post #17 of 22
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barrels bobbing down the River. To me, it's such a great place where the story changes from the Mountain/Mirkwood struggles to the watery struggle with the River and Lake-town physically changing the feel of the Company's challenges. From land-based to water-based... from Forest creatures to a Dragon... from elves to men.
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes
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Briza
Nevrast
Feb 9 2012, 2:52am
Post #18 of 22
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I feel the first film would end with the assault on Dol Guldur, at least the main battle, confrontation and Saurons escape. At the same time Thorins expedition would arrive at Lake Town.
The first film does not have a major battle, while the second film would have several. That is way I feel the assault would take place in the first.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Feb 9 2012, 3:31am
Post #19 of 22
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An excellent way of putting it
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This would give the two films their own very distinctive feel.
Earth and Water.
Such subtle, aesthetic "tonal" elements are very important, in the end.
Great comment.
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Milknut
Nargothrond
Feb 10 2012, 6:13pm
Post #20 of 22
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I too think it's going to be barrels bobbing down the river (and as many have speculated, a view of the lonely mountain in the distance). That's a much better credit punch than Orlando Bloom's face. In fact I would be SO DISAPPOINTED if they cut to credits from Bloom. It makes him WAY more important than he is and is needlessly pandering. Luckily I trust SPJ to have better sense than that. It would be tasteless and crass film-making.
However, I think this article's option 4 has some merit. I think that much as Helm's Deep was intercut with the ents and Pelennor was intercut with Frodo/Sam/Gollum, I think the final scenes will somehow play the Dol Goldur battle off of the escape of the dwarves. Or something to that effect!
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___
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Milknut
Nargothrond
Feb 10 2012, 6:14pm
Post #21 of 22
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I think barrels in the water would be much more powerful than actually arriving.
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Arriving at LT is a new beginning and would be better suited for film two.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___
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jjcote
Registered User
Feb 10 2012, 6:55pm
Post #22 of 22
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If I were doing this, I would put the break earlier. The arrival at Beorn's house provides an obvious opportunity to reintroduce the characters, and therefore would make a convenient place to open the second film. That means that the linear narrative of the first film would conclude with the party being deposited at the Carrock. That's only 37% of the way through in my copy of the book, but the first movie could be fattened up by showing us glimpses of what's going on in Laketown and Mirkwood, with backstory, and with the goings-on pertaining to Dol Guldur. But in addition, although I would leave Bilbo, Gandalf, and the Dwarves at the Carrock, I wouldn't end the movie there. I'd change things around so that we didn't see what happened with Gollum while it was happening, but only in a flashback, as related by Bilbo to the others (his inaccurate version from the original edition, and this would have to be shifted to an earlier point in the story). All we would see in "real time" is a confusing scene where the goblins think something unidentified is sneaking out of the cave. Then after the eagles leave everyone off safely, there would be a flashforward to Bilbo back in the Shire, talking to Frodo (the bit seen in the trailer), where he says, "I may not have told you everything". At this point, he would divulge the actual Riddles in the Dark episode, culminating with his escape, and the film would end with Bilbo fleeing up trhe passage as we hear, "Thief, thief, thief! Baggins! We hates it, we hates it, we hates it forever!" (fade to black, roll credits)
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