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Xoanon
PTB
Sep 21 2007, 1:09am
Post #1 of 9
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Round one to Jackson in LOTR profits fight
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Kiwi director Peter Jackson has won the first round in his fight with Hollywood studio New Line Cinema over profits from The Lord of the Rings. A judge has fined New Line, the film trilogy's financial backer, $US125,000 ($NZ169,000) for failing to turn over court-ordered documents in the case. The Hollywood Reporter said Jackson's lawyers might also be allowed to inspect New Line's files if the studio did not produce several audits within 21 days. New Line must also hire an outsider to collect electronic documents, including e-mails, it said.
Michael Regina
Editor in Chief/Segment Producer
PH: 514.947.5221
http://www.TheOneRing.net
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Elven
Valinor
Sep 21 2007, 11:25am
Post #2 of 9
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I wonder if by this time New Line were expecting this judgement?
The fine seems small ... but who profits from the fine? Im sure it doesnt cover much in the way of legal fee's. Their coffee tab maybe 
21 days and counting!!
If anything I think this certainly gives a push to keep moving ahead at this stage ... possibly something which was hidden will suddenly come to light and New Line will have to give it up, and hand over willingly whatever it is they have before the 21 days expires. Hopefully they will get this sorted quickly, so it can be settled respectfully! ... in Hollywood legal time that is ... which may take a while ... its very entish
The Road Goes Ever On and On ...
Happy 70th Birthday to The Hobbit!!
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
..*sing & sway* "All we are saying ..Is Give Pete A Chance" ...
"Your friends are with you Peter"
Let the Hobbit Happen!!!
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GaladrielTX
Tol Eressea
Sep 21 2007, 5:34pm
Post #3 of 9
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Newbie. ;o)
~~~~~~~~
Formerly known as GaladrielTX
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Patty
Immortal
Sep 21 2007, 7:37pm
Post #4 of 9
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I thought the same thing. Great minds, great minds.
For Gondor!
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Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea
Sep 21 2007, 9:41pm
Post #5 of 9
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You won't like this, but I don't like it either.
[In reply to]
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I'll go ahead and say what bugged me back in November with Peter's letter, and that was sort of confirmed to me, once I read yesterday's story.
Peter Jackson DOES NOT WANT TO THE HOBBIT, at least not as badly as he tried with Lord of the Rings. I would love him to direct, and I am still rooting for him to do so. But in the world of business when you want to get something done you do not act the way he has been acting. You cannot get your way everytime and not every situation is a win-win one.
Basically, it's been said New Line executives are just greedy and corrupt, and that are missing out on a billion dollar opportunity. But what about Jackson? He was offered to settle the demand of he committed himself to do The Hobbit. His answer was he did not want to jinx it that way. But that's the way business works! Had he really been interested in doing The Hobbit, and was absolutely committed to his art, rather than money, he would've taken it. It's not like he won't make a ton of money by doing The Hobbit. No, he wants this money we are not *positively* sure he is entitled to, PLUS the movie. It's been argued that it is a matter of principles. Sorry, but principles for a director should be getting the story he loves to the screen whatever the cost, instead of fighting for a few million dollars, when he was already paid a ridiculous amount of money. It's not like he needs the money, today, half the blockbusters out there go through WETA...
I hope I am making my point. Principle matters are distorted in this whole matter, and as I have said before, Peter Jackson is not entirely guilt-free on this matter. Now, when things seem to be moving along, he pushes the lawsuit even further. My guess, given the most recent events? New Line will not hand any papers to court, Jackson will "hostilely" check NL's papers, proving he is after the profit and not the movie; and whatever the outcome, Shaye becomes so angry he effectively bans Jackson.
I really hope I am wrong, for I want this movie to be made. But that chance seems, more than ever, only possible if New Line's period expires, which I am pretty sure they will not let happen.
Let it be heard! We want Jackson for The Hobbit!
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Darkstone
Immortal
Sep 21 2007, 9:46pm
Post #6 of 9
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They originally were going to do The Hobbit first but the deal fell through so they went straight to LOTR. Jackson said he was rather relieved because he found The Hobbit too linear a story and rather boring.
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The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Elven
Valinor
Sep 22 2007, 12:19am
Post #7 of 9
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I'll go ahead and say what bugged me back in November with Peter's letter, and that was sort of confirmed to me, once I read yesterday's story. Peter Jackson DOES NOT WANT TO THE HOBBIT, at least not as badly as he tried with Lord of the Rings. I would love him to direct, and I am still rooting for him to do so. But in the world of business when you want to get something done you do not act the way he has been acting. You cannot get your way everytime and not every situation is a win-win one. I think Peter DOES want to do the Hobbit - but there are things he has to do, and things that have to be set in place, prior to it coming to pass, and if the strategy is to be patient, then so be it. Too often Fran is left out of the calculations as well - and there needds to be some consideration given to their partnership in that area (just my opinion). There's no set structure to business practises, just the assumed path which has been cut out for those have gone before = the tried and true - but then you have to look at where the benefit of those business decisions went, what they produce, and why there were structured that way. I see Peter as a person who thinks outside the box, has a strong mind and will, is visionary artist and creator, and an integral business person. Its the person who goes of the 'structured business' path, which is the hardest to follow - they are unpredictable, which makes it hard to calculate their next move. It leaves those 'inside the box' people curious and others floundering, as to which way they will go. Every business decision has a motive, and an agenda, a purpose with an aim, a probable outcome - and you can reach those objectives by many paths ... and in many ways. Depending on the integrity of the people involved, and the way they are structured and their dynamics. There could be many paths to achieve an outcome ... but its the quality of the outcome and much of what I see relates just to quantity - why can you not have both? No reason ... its bottom line thinking ... Its fair to play the game by the rules, but when the rules aren't benefiting all the teams, the spectators and anyone else - no body is a winner. Wasnt there a movie made about that equation Basically, it's been said New Line executives are just greedy and corrupt, and that are missing out on a billion dollar opportunity. Are they though? But what about Jackson? He was offered to settle the demand of he committed himself to do The Hobbit. His answer was he did not want to jinx it that way. But that's the way business works! The offer was the way business works, but Jackson reply and more so 'response' was not - it was not reactionary - it was possibly more business structured and held more intergrity than was expected. New Lines stance had a air of manipulation and smouldering defiance, as polite as it has all seemed, but Jackson/Walshreply and commitment - thats a spanner being thrown into the works - which chnages things. He (Peter and his advisors) take calculated risks - this seems obvious, but I also get the impressiont that this was not about the Hobbit, or any future dealing with New Line, it was Bob Shaye who came out in a flurry of regretable words - and that was put down to a health issue ... so when all the dust has settled, there is still a lawsuit, but there is also opportunity - the focus has been on the drama being played out about more so than the movie itself. Look at the support Peter has had. There have been a few 'un-business' like replies related to the movie. The actors have put their thoughts, views and commitment to a director who, has not yet commited to the movie itself. There was a time not that long ago where the topic remained very tepid in response and replies from the cast - Weta (Richard Taylor) threw his hat in the ring regardless of who was Directing, but even then, then association has its merits aligned to Peter as well. We have now seen some of the heavyweights put their views forth - and that might have been considered a risk in a business climate, but they have done it. Had he really been interested in doing The Hobbit, and was absolutely committed to his art, rather than money, he would've taken it. It's not like he won't make a ton of money by doing The Hobbit. No, he wants this money we are not *positively* sure he is entitled to, PLUS the movie. It's been argued that it is a matter of principles. Sorry, but principles for a director should be getting the story he loves to the screen whatever the cost, instead of fighting for a few million dollars, when he was already paid a ridiculous amount of money. It's not like he needs the money, today, half the blockbusters out there go through WETA... I think there are sacrifices in every artistic project, and to just jump in and say yes, would have to been to compromise his integrity and the purpose of what he was trying to do, and what he has already done. It seems the lawsuit is more investigatory than damning. It has been the refusals and shifting of blame by the other party which has made Peters decision to persue the matter more complicated than it is. $100 million dollars is alot of money, and alot of financing for small films and projects, it could offer alot of opportunities to those who would not otherwise have a chance. Would it be better to leave that money in the hands of a few than to distribute it to those it is owed (if that be the case)? Who knows what the outcome will be regarding the revenue from the LoTR, if it is owed to Peter. The Hobbit and the responsibility to its coming into being, is very precarious. How do you top LOTR with all its accolades, with a story with has such a soft core to it. The Hobbit is not an epic adventure, its a story, but the expectations are high ... and if I was going to sink my creative teeth into something like the Hobbit after the Lord of The Rings, I'd be waiting too ... something other than the story has to emerge to get the Hobbit up to par, and thats why I assume a gap is necessary. I hope I am making my point. Principle matters are distorted in this whole matter, and as I have said before, Peter Jackson is not entirely guilt-free on this matter. Im not sure I understand this. What is not entirely guilt free mean. Do you mean he has a partial underhanded objective, or that there is blame to be bestowed? Now, when things seem to be moving along, he pushes the lawsuit even further. My guess, given the most recent events? New Line will not hand any papers to court, Jackson will "hostilely" check NL's papers, proving he is after the profit and not the movie; and whatever the outcome, Shaye becomes so angry he effectively bans Jackson. I think the lawsuit is just running its course as it will. I think New Line if they were going to have changed any books, would have done it by now, and lets throw a little resistance in on their behalf to handing any documents over as well, so it doesnt look like they are backing down, or cornered. New Zealnd is a long way away, but Jacson is breathing down their necks .. its an uncomfortable time, but not a time to back down - theres always some form of raw confrontation or face-off with money matters and legal proceedings, and they do take time ... its how its approached ... what if the Hobbit was never brought into the calculations as a consideration with this law suit ... I think we'd still be waiting for it to be made anyway. I think Jackson has a smart legal team at his disposal - heck, why wouldnt you, and thats who pulls the strings, offers advice on these matters. I really hope I am wrong, for I want this movie to be made. But that chance seems, more than ever, only possible if New Line's period expires, which I am pretty sure they will not let happen. I sill feel somewhere things are in progessive in a Peter/Hobbit direction. Otherwise, why have NewLine not moved on this ... I'd say there are plans ... and let the time which is supposed to pass - take its course. I'd say we (as fans) will not be dissappointed, and that news will come. Just some musings on this - the 70th Hobbit Birthday!
The Road Goes Ever On and On ...
Happy 70th Birthday to The Hobbit!! Tolkien was a Capricorn! ..*sing & sway* "All we are saying ..Is Give Pete A Chance" ... "Your friends are with you Peter" Let the Hobbit Happen!!!
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Sep 22 2007, 8:12am
Post #9 of 9
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I agree that Peter Jackson right now doesn't feel the depth of commitment to The Hobbit that we know he did for LOTR. However it's pretty clear from bits of his biography that I've seen that he didn't feel the commitment to LOTR at first either - it was King Kong he really wanted, and his other idea was for a fantasy ("like LOTR") filmed as history. It was only once he had the agreement from the studio that he was able to find the level of commitment and inspiration that he eventually had.
I guess the "jinx" quote you were referring to is this from AICN well before the current situation arose:
QUINT: Maybe [New Line] will offer a settlement [of the lawsuit] that includes The Hobbit
PETER JACKSON: No. Well, they might, but we would never do that. Never. You make movies because you love the idea. You feel kind of emotionally driven. I would never commit to a 2 or 3 year project because of a court order! I mean, what a jinx. It would bring bad karma. No, our dull audit stuff can get figured out by lawyers or courts or whatever. We'll keep our movies completely untarnished by that.
Jackson's argument seems to be that he needs to have the money issues out of the way before he can really feel the commitment he needs - working to the terms of a court order would kill his creativity. And, assuming he was being honest in this interview, he seems to have been willing at one point to keep the issues of the money and the making of The Hobbit completely separate, so that the one would not diminish his commitment to the other. It was New Line that insisted on tying the two issues together, at which point Jackson balked.
On the other hand, I think you may be right that Jackson is now more interested in trying to strengthen the position of non-US filmmakers (especially NZ ones ) by standing up to big Hollywood and its dishonest practices. In the long run, I'm sure he thinks that will give him more creative control and more of a chance to make the movies that inspire him, and if that means The Hobbit is held up until the right conditions are in place, I imagine that's a tradeoff he's willing to make. I'd never heard the comment Darkstone quotes, but the fact is that The Hobbit is a less interesting story than LotR, and if people are expecting The Hobbit to equal LotR in its scope and grandeur, they are bound to be disappointed.
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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