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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 21 2011, 7:13pm

Post #226 of 332 (4917 views)
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Now now, we've only seen one Galadriel costume [In reply to] Can't Post

Which is obviously ment to be a "big girl's dress" a la Arwen's Blood Red etc. They've wanted to create something special, as I assumed. The rest of the costumes seem pretty faithful to the tone of LotR.

Though to be fair, to me the Elven costumes have always seemt a bit too diverse. Some of them are clearly Medieval Europe, some are clearly Asian, and the Dream Gown and the statues are Ancient Greece. I've just explained to myself that the Elves are both immortal and very creative, so they can have more diversity to their dress styles than we humans do.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 21 2011, 7:17pm

Post #227 of 332 (4898 views)
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That's fine, but I don't have to like it [In reply to] Can't Post

And personally I find the dwarves and their Asian inspired collars and lowered waistlines quite out of line with Gimli's costume from LOTR. But of course, we only had one dwarf to go off of from LOTR.

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lindorian
The Shire

Jul 21 2011, 7:17pm

Post #228 of 332 (4885 views)
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Totally exhilarated!!!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I felt utter joy seeing that. They all look so incredible. The stills couldn't capture the essance of the characters. I hope the Thorin naysayers are feeling slightly less anti now because he's gonna be amazing!


dwarf_girl
The Shire

Jul 21 2011, 7:19pm

Post #229 of 332 (4816 views)
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OMG!! ME NEITHER [In reply to] Can't Post

That was just amazing! I totally agree with your thought. And Saruman at the end! Oh, just... Im speechless and deeply moved and excited.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 21 2011, 7:22pm

Post #230 of 332 (4893 views)
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Of course you don't :) [In reply to] Can't Post

As you said we only had Gimli in LotR, and they're in line with him enough to me. The waistline could be lower now because they don't need to try to make them look smaller than they are, instead to make them look more robust.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Oin K
Rivendell


Jul 21 2011, 7:37pm

Post #231 of 332 (4865 views)
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The idea that dwarves take the length of a human lifetime to grow a beard is ridiculous [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili and Kili are eight decades old. Are we really supposed to think that dwarves go around barefaced until they're 70 or so and then stubble starts to grow in? Heck, I'm not yet 30 and my own modest beard rivals Thorin's.

I refer you to my signature: replace "snouts" with "beards", "rhinoplasted" with "shaved", and "Truffles" with "Jewels" and you have the source itself for why dwarves ought to have full beards regardless of their age.

I'm willing to let it slide in the interests of artistic license and making each character unique, but I hold out hope that PJ invents a good reason in-universe for why some of these blokes have such short beards. All I need is for Bilbo to say something along the lines of: "I thought all dwarves had beards like you, Gandalf." A little wink and a shrug and I'd be satisfied.

"The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their snouts were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a snoutless Dwarf - unless he were rhinoplasted in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have snouts from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..." (History of Middle Earth, volume 11, The War of the Truffles, p. 205)


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 21 2011, 7:40pm

Post #232 of 332 (5409 views)
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I'm glad that you like the costumes we've seen [In reply to] Can't Post

I really am. And I like quite a few of them myself. I just don't think they tie into LOTR perfectly. This is, of course, just my opinion and I'm not trying to convert anyone. No amount of out-of-film reasoning is going to change my perception of them as being different, though you're welcome to continue if you want.

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Symbelmine
Rohan


Jul 21 2011, 7:41pm

Post #233 of 332 (4909 views)
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Awesome pics! [In reply to] Can't Post

You did a great job, Pipe Dream.
Thanks for sharing with us.


Symbelmine
Rohan


Jul 21 2011, 7:45pm

Post #234 of 332 (4799 views)
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Thank you. [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, hope we will see more elves next time:)
I really like Galadriel in her new costume.
Can't wait to see Legolas in his new costume,and I'm very curious about Thranduil.


Oin K
Rivendell


Jul 21 2011, 7:45pm

Post #235 of 332 (5132 views)
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Frodo learned it from Bilbo, Bilbo learned it from the dwarves... [In reply to] Can't Post

... and the dwarves learned it from the hobbits up North? They traveled quite a distance before reaching Bag End. It stands to reason that they stopped and drank with a fair number of folk on the way. Being musically inclined (instruments and all) I'm sure they'd take the opportunity to learn all the local songs they could, and they chose this one to put Bilbo at ease. 'course, this is all baseless speculation on my part, and it could be that Bilbo will be the one teaching it to the dwarves.

"The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their snouts were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a snoutless Dwarf - unless he were rhinoplasted in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have snouts from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..." (History of Middle Earth, volume 11, The War of the Truffles, p. 205)


eralkfang
Lorien


Jul 21 2011, 7:46pm

Post #236 of 332 (5164 views)
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Hmm… [In reply to] Can't Post

…what if Kili can't grow a beard? As in, hormone deficiency or a curse or something? No matter how much he tries, the stubble is all he can manage, which makes other dwarves look down on him? ;)

I agree, I'd love an in-canon explanation for shorter beards, especially if it makes for some comic relief involving Freeman. I would also enjoy the dwarves ribbing Kili at every opportunity for being a scrawny and beardless dwarf—I keep having this image of Fili being sent to check something and, to check in with his brother, yells "YOU'RE ADOPTED" back.


Oin K
Rivendell


Jul 21 2011, 7:51pm

Post #237 of 332 (4877 views)
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Aye, but don't forget that Khuzdul was based on Old Norse ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... or, rather, Old Norse was derived from Khuzdul, as Professor Tolkien would have it. Cool

"The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their snouts were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a snoutless Dwarf - unless he were rhinoplasted in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have snouts from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..." (History of Middle Earth, volume 11, The War of the Truffles, p. 205)


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 21 2011, 7:51pm

Post #238 of 332 (5051 views)
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It's not just you [In reply to] Can't Post

At the risk of causing another battleground to form, i too have noticed a change in the costumes and not necessarily for the better. Some are superb, but others you can tell straight off the bat are not a continuation of the quality shown in LotR as masterminded by Ngila Dickson (I have great affection for Ngila both as a costume designer and as a person (although i've never met her) she's fantastically straight-talking in the interviews). I respect Ann Maskrey's difference in style but i don't feel she's nearly as clever a designer as Ngila and there are some elements (such as the low hanging belts on the dwarves) that come across as fairly cheap 'tricks' to compensate for areas where the actors' physiques are lacking.

Dr Death


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 21 2011, 7:52pm

Post #239 of 332 (4951 views)
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Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I was thinking green wasn't really Saruman's color, so I did a quick replacement. Smile



"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Oin K
Rivendell


Jul 21 2011, 7:57pm

Post #240 of 332 (4854 views)
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Surely fashions shift in Middle Earth over time [In reply to] Can't Post

This is, after all, set fifty years prior to what we've seen in LOTR.

"The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their snouts were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a snoutless Dwarf - unless he were rhinoplasted in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have snouts from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..." (History of Middle Earth, volume 11, The War of the Truffles, p. 205)


son-of-azog
Registered User


Jul 21 2011, 8:03pm

Post #241 of 332 (4836 views)
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photograph [In reply to] Can't Post

At 03:58 theres a photograph attached to one of the mirrors depicting some creature. Can anybody make out what it's supposed to be? Looks a bit to pale for an orc to me...



Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 21 2011, 8:06pm

Post #242 of 332 (4838 views)
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Actually I do think the costumes were better in LotR [In reply to] Can't Post

and that there is a noticeable change in Elven costumes between LotR and Hobbit. I just feel it's too early to get too worried.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 21 2011, 8:09pm

Post #243 of 332 (4777 views)
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Isn't Khuzdul Semitic? Or was it just Adûnaic? [In reply to] Can't Post

And it doesn't sound anything like Scandinavian languages. :/

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 21 2011, 8:10pm

Post #244 of 332 (4830 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Some of them seem like big shifts to me, and more the them are working the wrong way through time (like the switch from a flap closure to a button fly on Bilbo's trousers -- the button fly was a much later invention). Still more of it is about what connects with the world as we know it and the parallels it draws. For instance, the Chinese style coats for the dwarves (that button to one side rather than down the middle). Ngila was careful to keep most of the Asian influence confined to the elves (except for Billbo's paisley scarf -- a gift from Rivendell?). Now, as far as I can recall, we never saw such garments in the LOTR movies, so technically they're fair game. But now in my head we've drawn a similarity between the elves and the dwarves that shouldn't exist. Likewise, the square cloak on Nori's costume, which is evocative of Eowyn's starry mantle.

The rest of it is something I have a hard time putting my finger to. I have become quite close to the details of the LOTR costumes over the years (both physically and emotionally in some cases) and there's a subtlety of design that seems to be missing in these costumes. Maybe I'm just not used to such high-res photos, but the trimmings and detailing all seems very overt, to me.

But of course, it all comes down to what your gut tells you about the costumes. For those that love them, more power to you. I can't always explain why I dislike that thing or this detail, but something about these costumes just doesn't sit right with me.

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Marillë by the Sea
Rivendell


Jul 21 2011, 8:12pm

Post #245 of 332 (4737 views)
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Perhaps they'll enlarge the heads in post-production [In reply to] Can't Post

Just like they enlarged Mouth of Sauron's mouth by 200%. It does look like the actors have very small heads compared to the bulkiness of their costumes.


Oin K
Rivendell


Jul 21 2011, 8:14pm

Post #246 of 332 (4806 views)
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Whatever the explanation, I really think ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... we're going to see a major character arc for Kili and his brother, as they start out as brash and naive upstarts, rearing to fight, and then as things get more and more grim they realize what they've gotten into and start to grow up and more into Thorin's esteem so that, by the end of the story they've really come of age and become equals on the battlefield with their uncle.

And then, they all three will go down in a gut-wrenching blaze of glory, to be remembered as great heroes in the annals and songs of the dwarves ever after.

"The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their snouts were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a snoutless Dwarf - unless he were rhinoplasted in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have snouts from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..." (History of Middle Earth, volume 11, The War of the Truffles, p. 205)


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 21 2011, 8:17pm

Post #247 of 332 (4782 views)
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Yes, I'm very curious about Thranduil [In reply to] Can't Post

As much as I love the casting of Lee Pace, I'm just slightly worried about how his make-up will turn out. Now they got yet another very dark actor supposed to play a blond Elf, and what they did in LotR didn't always convince me. Especially, his eyebrows. I doubt they're going to dye them, as they didn't dye eyebrows in LotR either.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 21 2011, 8:20pm

Post #248 of 332 (4779 views)
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They did it for the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland [In reply to] Can't Post

I just hope they don't take it quite so far in The Hobbit Tongue

http://img.photobucket.com/...w/aliceusatoday2.jpg

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mutelock
Bree

Jul 21 2011, 8:20pm

Post #249 of 332 (4808 views)
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Fashion Changes [In reply to] Can't Post

We do not dress ourselves like we did 60 years ago. Maybe the same happens in Middle Earth?


Marillë by the Sea
Rivendell


Jul 21 2011, 8:22pm

Post #250 of 332 (4798 views)
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Chinese influence? [In reply to] Can't Post

Could you tell me where you see the Chinese influence you keep mentioning? I'm Chinese and I can't see anything that's Chinese on the dwarves. But then again, you're more learned in these things than I am!

I do agree that from what we've seen thus far, LOTR costumes were better. I wish Ngila Dickson were here Unsure

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