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mulubinba
Ossiriand
Jul 17 2011, 6:00am
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Comment on his casting. Richard Armitage Interview in iPad Project Magazine
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There is an interview with Richard Armitage in "Project: the Magazine for iPad" issue No 8. http://www.projectmag.com/issues/issue-8. He mainly talks about his character in Captain America, but towards the end of the interview, he was asked about his casting in The Hobbit which I have posted here, FYI.
“You’ve got a nice gig in The Hobbit. How did a strapping 6’2” chap like yourself get the part of a dwarf?
I’d been in and read for a couple of roles, and been through the initial casting for Thorin Oakenshield, but not for one minute did I think that I’d end up getting the part. So when I was told that it had come my way, I was completely incredulous. At that point the film hadn’t been given the green light, so I didn’t think it was going to happen, even to the point where I was on set, in costume. And then I’m in front of Peter Jackson and I finally think, ‘OK, I am going to be playing this part.’
Were there any reservations about taking on a job that would last so long?
None at all. In fact, I had to wiggle my way out of some other situations that were very, very complicated. It would have been much easier to say ‘OK, I’ll let it go.’ But there was no doubt in my mind that this was for me. If someone told me this was going to be the last piece of work I ever do, I think I’d be alright with that. I don’t want it to be, but I think I would be satisfied.”
Photo from the magazine ....
Project Magazine for iPad: Josh Woodfin & Matt Holyoak
(This post was edited by mulubinba on Jul 17 2011, 6:08am)
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Maiarmike
Hithlum
Jul 17 2011, 6:07am
Post #2 of 65
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Even if you disagree with the casting...
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...you gotta love this man's enthusiasm for the project. It's always a good sign when an actor doesn't look at the part as just another job, but rather an opportunity of a lifetime, which will undoubtedly open his career to new horizons.
"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak
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Patty
Elvenhome
Jul 17 2011, 6:11am
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Very true. And I say that as a person is yet to be convinced
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he's right for the part. But i think enthusiasm and passion go a long way towards making me think he'll do the part well.
Permanent address: Into the West
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Rufus
Nevrast
Jul 17 2011, 6:40am
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Was that he had read for other parts which makes me wonder which - Bard I suppose. Also that he knew before the project was Green lit that he had the part of Thorin. So he's been Thorin in PJ's mind at least for a while.
The whole article is a lovely read and he does appear to be total enthusd by this role.
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ShireHorse
Nargothrond
Jul 17 2011, 7:02am
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Does the photo show Armitage in Thorin mode?
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I can just hear the photographer saying: "Come on, Richard! I want Thorin! Give me your Thorin!" LOL! Wonder if this is a prelude for his dwarf shot?
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dormouse
Gondolin
Jul 17 2011, 7:09am
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I love his enthusiasm for the part and I think that will make a huge difference. It isn't just another job to him.
But the thing that really jumped out of the interview for me is that he was cast before the project was greenlit. It suggests that he was their Thorin as much as Martin Freeman was their Bilbo, and that's interesting.
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bookgirl13
Menegroth
Jul 17 2011, 8:08am
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I wonder how long he's been cast?
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Was it whilst GDT was still at the helm or after PJ took over? It's clear that him having the role was a thoughtful decision by PJ and everyone else involved. If there had been any doubts - as there is a huge amount of money invested in these films - then changes would have been made long before now.
But I agree, it is nice to see him so enthusiastic about being part of The Hobbit. I believe he's mentioned that Tolkien is his favourite author and his first acting part was an elf in a stage production of TH.
It's no guarantee that I'll find him as the Thorin that I'm happy with, but I'm glad that it's not just another job for him, as these films and LotR are not just other books to me.
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Rufus
Nevrast
Jul 17 2011, 8:21am
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Job for him. Another thing that is interesting is the preparation he did for CA which is a tiny role. How he read an autobiography of a Nazi spy. If he did that fot this little role what preparation will he have done for Thorin?
He may not be Thorin from the book and I hope he isn't because the little we were given about all of them by Tolkein in my mind makes them is cartoonish.
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DrDeath153
Menegroth
Jul 17 2011, 10:59am
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I may be the arch-cynic of his casting (though i'm sure there's a fair few who have their doubts) but he is plainly a big Tolkien fan so i can hardly blame him for taking the part. Landing that kind of role in such a big picture at this stage in his career is obviously a huge huge deal. On the other hand his modesty does almost count against him. When posed with the question of why he was cast at the press conference he deferred to the absent Peter Jackson, and again here there's a suggestion (if you care to read it that way) that he is somewhat amazed he got it and therefore perhaps questions quite why he was cast (we of course don't know who auditioned or was offered the part, so we can but conjecture on his 'competition'). While doubtless if he was being completely smug and self-confident about it i'd be raising hell calling him arrogant, so there's a bit of lose-lose, but I think there is a bit of a middle-ground where he could appear at least fairly secure in the qualities that got him there without seeming completely egotistical.
In addition, being a Tolkien fan does not necessarily ensure a finer performance. Quite a number of the cast of LotR were unfamiliar with the books before taking their parts and yet produced fantastic performances, Ian McKellen being perhaps the most notable of them but Viggo Mortensen, David Wenham and i'm sure quite a few others (the extended edition documentaries for TTT and RotK don't really touch on the new additions' familiarity with the books). It does help- Christopher Lee obviously is a huge huge fan and produced a startlingly brilliant Saruman, Sean Bean had read the books and produced one of the finest performances in all three of the films, and there were a few others with whom familiarity certainly helped, but of all the actors it was the book-naive Ian McKellen who was the only cast member singled out for an awards nomination (who knows, maybe he'll win it with The Hobbit...)
Good luck to Armitage though- he's got the Lonely Mountain to climb
Dr Death
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Rufus
Nevrast
Jul 17 2011, 11:37am
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Mr Armitage can do or say nothing to please you can he? If he reads the book thats wrong if he hadn't read it that wouuld have been wrong as well. Even his modesty isn't right.
Talking to his fans whom you dismiss it seems as though he is genuinely a quiet modest man. In conversations I have had I have also realised he devotes a lot of time to his preparation for ant role all of which bodes well for Thorin.
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ShireHorse
Nargothrond
Jul 17 2011, 11:46am
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Yes, I noticed his response at the press conference too, Dr D,
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when he was asked why he had been cast as Thorin. And, yes, this is a "lose-lose" situation, particularly if you know that a certain number of fans are attacking you as PJ's choice. What was he supposed to say? Because I'm such a good actor? Because I'm so goodlooking and Peter wants a hot dwarf? Because I did a brilliant job of reading at the audition? Because they thought I was so much better than Brian Cox or Ian McShane? (Sorry about that - I really am a genuine admirer of both men - IM first delighted me as Lovejoy years ago.) I thought his answer was a good one and on "middle ground". He sensibly passed the buck to the right man who wasn't present and so couldn't be harassed with the same question.
Armitage is excellent at playing arrogant men on screen, but is a charmingly modest man in real life (at least, that's how it seems from all the remarks that have been made about him to this effect by interviewers and journalists). This appears to be a real and not a false modesty, honed after years in his early career when he spent a lot of time doing DIY jobs for friends in between infrequent jobs. After such experiences, you never take anything for granted.
BTW, as regards comments about when he was cast as Thorin, a little bell is ringing at the back of my head. I'm sure that, from RA's own comments, it must have been before the spring of 2010 - I'm sorry that I can't put my finger on it. And an even fainter bell is ringing where I associate GdeT with the casting - something about del Toro avidly watching BBC period series in an attempt to find his hero? Or was that someone else? Am I completely wrong there? Well, if he did, it's likely he watched Armitage in North and South which is one of the biggies in the BBC canon. Perhaps someone can set me right with all these bells, LOL!
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Rufus
Nevrast
Jul 17 2011, 11:56am
Post #12 of 65
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a lot BBc dramas and even uoted Gaskell.
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ShireHorse
Nargothrond
Jul 17 2011, 12:10pm
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Of course, when we talk about the BBC North and South, we don't mean the American series about the Civil War. This one is by the Victorian novelist, Elizabeth Gaskell, and is set among the northern cotton mills during the British Industrial Revolution. And, yes, I did think GdelT was referring to Armitage when he said he had been watching Gaskell.
Perhaps, one day, when all this is over, we'll be able to ask them about their choices.
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Flagg
Dor-Lomin
Jul 17 2011, 12:33pm
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He was definitely cast after PJ took over.
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GDT was still recommending Ian McShane and saying that he 'would make the most perfect Dwarf' as of October 2010. Somehow I doubt he was the one who selected Armitage.
It's nice to hear that he's a fan of the book, but of course it hardly makes a jot of difference, as some of the most celebrated Lord of the Rings actors had never read Tolkien at the time they were cast.
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Flagg
Dor-Lomin
Jul 17 2011, 12:41pm
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If, as you suggest, GDT watched some of Armitage's programmes and decided that he wanted him in The Hobbit, I'd say it's fairly clear that he did not want him for Thorin, taking into account his stated preferences for the part and the other actors we know he considered. Armitage did say in the recent interview that he had initially read for other parts. If GDT did want him (and I have no idea if he did), I strongly suspect that it was for the role of Bard.
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Maiarmike
Hithlum
Jul 17 2011, 12:46pm
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I definitely think RA was Peter's choice. I'm a huge fan of Ian McShane, and would love to see him in these movies anyhow. Perhaps they can get him to play Dain? I have this gut feeling that even if Ian's schedule was free when they were casting Thorin, he probably wouldn't have taken the role anyways, even though he would be perfect. I think it would have been kinda scary for McShane (who is closing in on 70) when Peter says: "Well, you're gonna have to move to New Zealand for one, since we'll be shooting and doing pick-ups for nearly 3 years, we also need you to do some dwarf training everyday for a few months, and then of course there's the hours of makeup, and carrying about a rather heavy load of armor and weapons. So no big deal, shouldn't be too big of a problem, just let me know how you feel about it"...lol.
But at least we get to see him as a dwarf in Snow White, right? 
"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak
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bookgirl13
Menegroth
Jul 17 2011, 12:53pm
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The timing of GDT remarks is interesting, in that he had left TH by the end of May, yet he was making comments in October about his ideas for cast members? But I agree, that RA was probably cast after he left the production. The film was greenlit in October and the initial casting announcement was made then. From an Empire article it was clear that RA had the part of Thorin from the summer if not earlier.
Also as you said, being a fan of the book does not mean that you will be right in an adaptation. But in some instances it does help. Although Ian McKellan was not familiar with the LotR before filming, he certainly read it and carried a copy of it on set with him. He used his knowledge of the books to suggest actions etc that other should use when filming particular scenes. eg wasn't he that told Sean Astin that he had to take EW hand, when he was recovering in bed in Rivendell, as the fans would be expecting that iconic moment. Obviously those on The Hobbit will no doubt know the book well by this time, even if they didn't before. But there can be no question that RA will be bringing his knowledge of the book, and even all the details of Thorin's backstory and the history of the dwarves from HoME, to the film. He will not just be relying on PJ's interpretation and the script that he has been given.
The fact that an actor does know the original books is important to many. On other boards and concerning other films/TV series, there have been vociferous complaints about directors and actors who are unfamiliar with an original work before (and in some cases after) filming. To some, it is virtually sacrilegious, to film for example Pride and Prejudice, if you are not immersed in Jane Austen. So for some fans of a book, an adaptation appears to be in safer hands if the people concerned know and love the books, and therefore will respect the authorial intent.
I agree that this is not really that important, except I think that RA will not just 'phone his part in' as he has so much emotional investment in the book from his childhood. And that has to help his portrayal of Thorin.
(This post was edited by bookgirl13 on Jul 17 2011, 1:00pm)
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dormouse
Gondolin
Jul 17 2011, 1:01pm
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It was said that Guillermo del Toro was watching BBC dramas in the hunt for cast members and North and South was mentioned. And Richard Armitage is the only cast member from North and South who has also been cast in The Hobbit - from where I'm sitting that certainly seems to add up. But it doesn't really matter very much right now because we'll never know who chose whom and when, unless one day when the films have been released it turns up in DVD extras, when they talk about casting.
The important point, I think, is that now we know Richard Armitage was cast as Thorin even before the film had a green light. It means he was a positive choice - the Thorin they really wanted.
And if he's modest about the casting that's an appealing quality - it will certainly make him easier to work with. If he says's he's lucky, he didn't think he would get the part, it doesn't mean he doubts his ability to do it, just that he's realistic about the number of other actors who must have been in contention. Acting's an oversubscribed profession and a with a major role like Thorin in two big films the competition must have been fierce. Means all the more, I'd say, that he is the one they chose.
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Flagg
Dor-Lomin
Jul 17 2011, 1:04pm
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He's four years older than McShane, but he seems to have no qualms about spending a couple of years in New Zealand while playing an action-heavy lead role. I'm sure the filmmakers could have accomodated McShane without too much difficulty – he'd need only minimal prosthetics, and through the judicious use of light prop weapons and armour, and stunt doubles (both real and digital) for the small number of fight scenes Thorin takes part in, I'm sure something could have been worked out. GDT wouldn't even have considered him and Brian Blessed if it was impossible for them to portray the character – they would have been ruled out very quickly, much like Christopher Lee was ruled out as Gandalf due to his age.
I'm quite looking forward to Snow White and the Huntsman – let's just say I plan to do a lot of Photoshopping, both in the actual sense and the imaginative sense. The other dwarf actors in that film are all pretty much legendary, whereas PJ for the most part cast unknowns, so it will be interesting to compare the results of the directors' differing methodologies.
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Rufus
Nevrast
Jul 17 2011, 1:04pm
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I didn't say he did want him, just that GDT had stated that he was looking at a lot of BBC period drama's including Gaskell who wrote North and South which prior to Crandford was the last of her novels to be dramatised.
Re Ian MacShane I am afraid for me, and I have not watched Deadwood, he is too cheeky chappy, or ducking and diving wide boy for me. I just don't see him having the introverted intensity of Thorin. I remember him as Judas all those years ago in Jesus of Nazareth and for m he wasn't good. I also remeber him as Lovejoy which I did enjoy.
(This post was edited by Rufus on Jul 17 2011, 1:04pm)
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dormouse
Gondolin
Jul 17 2011, 1:09pm
Post #21 of 65
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But Flagg, by the same token...
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...if Guillermo said that Ian McShane would make a perfect dwarf, why does that mean that he wanted to cast him as Thorin, necessarily? There are twelve other dwarves.
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bookgirl13
Menegroth
Jul 17 2011, 1:11pm
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One would think that if he had had major doubts about his ability to play the part, both as PJ wanted and as he knew that those who have grown up with the books (like himself) would want, that he would have quite sensibly walked away from the role.
As far as work is concerned, RA is no longer having to work in soul destroying jobs between acting, as he was reduced to in the past. He appears to be in the comfortable position of being able to choose parts and take those that are appropriate. This recent article mentions that he had to extricate himself from several other commitments and that that was not easy. So he did not need to take this role. He might have been surprised with being offered the part of Thorin, but neither he nor PJ has had major doubts about him being able to do it. From past experience, PJ would have recast him if he proved not right for the part and I think RA himself would have left or not taken on the role if he had not been happy.
(This post was edited by bookgirl13 on Jul 17 2011, 1:15pm)
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Flagg
Dor-Lomin
Jul 17 2011, 1:16pm
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I haven't been able to track down the Times article in question – I took the quote from a post Dr Death made almost a year ago. Even if GDT did not specifiy which Dwarf he wanted McShane to play, it's very likely that it was indeed Thorin – he matches the physical description of the character very well, and why would GDT mention one of the peripheral Dwarves if he's only going to give one casting example? We can be pretty sure he wouldn't waste 'the most perfect Dwarf' in the role of Bofur, for example.
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holydiver
Lindon
Jul 17 2011, 1:39pm
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Ian McShane should have been Thorin!
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It is extremely tragic that Guillermo's cast was utterly scrapped. Ian McShane as Thorin would have made the movies so incredibly perfect, I doubt I would be able to contain my squeals of joy in the theater(Ian McShane is my favorite actor and I've watched Deadwood 5 times through). However, I can understand that Peter wanted physically fit Dwarves to do many action sequences, but I still think Guillermo's cast (Ian McShane, Brian Cox, Brian Blessed, Bill Nighy, etc), would have been the greatest thing to grace cinema. Then again those are all personal favorites of mine.
Regardless, this guy seems enthusiastic and I want Ian McShane to have his schedule free on the slight chance they renew Deadwood, so I spose I can give him a shot... even if he ends up not looking like a Dwarf... God, I hope he can act...
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dormouse
Gondolin
Jul 17 2011, 1:43pm
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But you see, you don't know...
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You and DrDeath have been coming out with this time and again every time Thorin is discussed. But it's not a fact, it's a supposition based on a quote from an article you haven't seen and can't find. And as for 'the physical description of the character', forgive me if I'm wrong but I can't remember that Tolkien gives much of a description of Thorin. Ian McShane may match your personal image of Thorin and that's fine, but by constantly citing Guillermo as your authority it's as if you're trying to give your view more weight than anyone else's.
Fact is, the people who have written the script for The Hobbit have chosen Richard Armitage as their ideal Thorin. Even before they were sure the film could go ahead they chose him and he was keen enough to do it, and confident enough that he could do it, to throw away other opportunities. That all speaks volumes to me. Can't you just wish him luck and accept that he must be more suitable for the role than you think? You get to see Ian McShane in Snow White, so this way no one loses.
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