Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Fili and Kili
First page Previous page 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Next page Last page  View All

DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 3:51pm

Post #576 of 601 (9791 views)
Shortcut
Well i've made no secret of it [In reply to] Can't Post

And if anyone wants to batter my arguments with it like i have in regards their aesthetic preferences or any other 'off limits' personal qualities that may be pertinent to the discussion in hand, feel free. It may hurt somewhat, but things that lie close to the bone always do, and it is only in challenging our opinions both of ourselves and of less personal matters that we learn and become better and wiser human beings.

Perhaps i should put it in my signature as a warning- abandon hope all ye who argue here!Tongue

Dr Death


enginemonkey
The Shire


Jul 16 2011, 2:15pm

Post #577 of 601 (9811 views)
Shortcut
I've been having a play... [In reply to] Can't Post

  

...in Photoshop. I have tweaked the scoundrel a bit and made his proportions more dwarf like and given him more nose, eyebrows and bit more beard. The changes are very subtle but make him less of an half elf!

http://bit.ly/p2qLio

Still a sex bomb mind Evil !!!

See my artwork here:
http://www.amandaclegg.co.uk
http://enginemonkey.deviantart.com/

(This post was edited by enginemonkey on Jul 16 2011, 2:18pm)


Annael
Immortal


Jul 16 2011, 2:27pm

Post #578 of 601 (9548 views)
Shortcut
that makes sense [In reply to] Can't Post

My nephew has Asperger's. He's done just fine for himself (attorney & Marine captain and now a terrific father) but we have found we have to be very direct with him, since he doesn't pick up on the nonverbal cues that the rest of us take for granted. I just saw a film with Hugh Dancy playing a guy with Asperger's, and it brought home to me that the oblique way many neurotypicals interact can come across as "lying" to someone who can't read those cues. I had to explain to my sister-in-law, who I suspect also has Asperger's (they didn't know about it when she was young) that when our mother-in-law said "yes" in a certain tone she meant "no" but didn't want to say so. Sis-in-law could not understand that at all.

But I must say as I get older, the less tolerance I have for such obliqueness, and just wish people would say what they want instead of trying to get it in such a passive-aggressive way. Unfortunately, most people grow up in families where that is the model, and learning to be direct is very hard for them. Perhaps the autism we're seeing these days will teach us all honesty . . .

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967

(This post was edited by Annael on Jul 16 2011, 2:29pm)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 16 2011, 7:56pm

Post #579 of 601 (9734 views)
Shortcut
This does make him look more dwarf-like... [In reply to] Can't Post

he'd have to join the others in wearing a "fat suit", but it would be do-able.

Permanent address: Into the West





DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 16 2011, 10:24pm

Post #580 of 601 (9690 views)
Shortcut
Well it won't teach tact that's for sure [In reply to] Can't Post

Angelic

Yes, i believe the honesty and reckless candor of my people has a certain charm all of it's own amid the staggering pigheadedness and mental inflexibility. The world takes all types- it's just a pity some of them have to be such utter pain in the backsides Tongue

Dr Death


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 19 2011, 3:18pm

Post #581 of 601 (9638 views)
Shortcut
You're saying Fili is older, but my book says different... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm confused, where are you getting the dates from? In Flies and Spiders Thorin says "Dori is the strongest, but Fili is the youngest and still has the best sight". So Kili must be older.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 19 2011, 4:03pm

Post #582 of 601 (9628 views)
Shortcut
I believe Tolkien mixed it up [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the correction comes in the LotR appendices where he lists Kili as the younger of the brothers.

Dr Death


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 19 2011, 5:37pm

Post #583 of 601 (9597 views)
Shortcut
I think [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually think Tolkien just got the names mixed up because let's face it? How does it actually matter whether Fili or Kili is the oldest enough to "correct" it in the first place? In the book The Hobbit itself, they are treated as a pair and they both die at the same time in the same way(relatively speaking).

So I can't see it mattering enough to anyone, even Tolkien, to say "oh wait, how did I screw that up, of course KILI must be the youngest! Have to fix that in this here appendix". :D

I think when he was writing the Appendix he either forgot or it was just a "typo"(in writing I assume) and it wasn't even important enough to notice. "Fili, Kili? Eh I don't have time to look it up right now, they are practically interchangeable, doesn't matter anyway, they both die!"

I actually assume in the movie it might matter a bit more.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Jul 19 2011, 5:39pm)


kiwifan
Rohan

Jul 19 2011, 6:14pm

Post #584 of 601 (9695 views)
Shortcut
you're so right --- couldn't agree more about passive-aggressive behaviour being detrimental to communication [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad to hear your nephew is dealing so well with having Asperger's! And thanks for mentioning the film 'Adam', I didn't know about it (just checked out the online catalogue of our municipal library and they have the DVD Smile so I'll get it next week, I hope).

Also found this interesting article about the film, here's the link:

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/film/article6731818.ece

Has the author got it right, in your opinion?

I'm absolutely convinced that one of my nieces has Asperger's, too, in a relatively mild way I suppose, but although her parents suspect I'm right, they don't want to have her tested since they fear an official diagnosis would stigmatise her. In the mean time, they just let things slide, which I find worrying since at nine years old she could still profit from special support available at school. However, it's their decision. And it's a good thing she has three sisters so she has some company as she finds it hard to make friends. But it's like you said, she doesn't understand irony, subtlety of meaning, nuances of tone, and gets extremely frustrated when she realises she can't understand something but has no way of finding out what it is. I get along fine with her since I'm usually very direct in what I want to communicate (which sometimes made things a little awkward during the years I lived in Canada and the States and got me in trouble in one of the threads right here on a TORn message board Frown not so long ago). And I don't have Asperger's --- I just grew up with mostly boys who were nothing if not direct, and never had much patience with what my mother and grandmother regarded as polite behaviour and tried to instil into me and which I considered mealy-mouthed avoidance of the heart of the matter. You can imagine that some forms of political correctness aren't exactly up my alley.Unsure

Yet I'm not so disastrously blunt that I would deliberately hurt someone unless they offered me irresistible provocation. In fact, I once had a new colleague who was absolutely desperate for acceptance but managed only to get on everyone's nerves, trying to foist first names and informal mode of address on everyone which is not a thing to do in Germany when dealing with people older than oneself, and being new and 'untested' so to speak. She even followed one of our male colleagues halfway into the men's room once, so insistent was she that he talk to her! (And then he came to me to complain about her as if she were my responsibility, which she wasn't.) And one Friday evening she once literally cornered me in my office blocking the way so I couldn't leave the room, asking me to tell her why I (and the others) didn't like her. There was no way I could tell her the unvarnished truth because I feared she might jump out of the window if I did, so I tried to be tactful and said she had a habit of overwhelming people with her demands that was rather off-putting. That didn't faze her, so I said she ought to stop steamrollering over people. And still she wouldn't let me leave, insisting I go out for a drink with her, and that was the last thing I wanted since I had a date. I didn't tell her that since she was perfectly capable of tagging along uninvited (besides perhaps being depressed about not having one herself). I tried to help her by suggesting she improve her appearance by talking about a perfectly great new line of shampoo/conditioner/deodorant/shower gel with a lovely scent and suggesting she get that for herself --- any other woman would have picked up on the veiled message 'you smell and and are generally unkempt' --- which I couldn't have said to her straight out --- but she didn't get it. I wonder if she had Asperger's, too? But that was over twenty years ago and I'd never heard about it. So I was being oblique to spare her feelings, with the result that nothing was communicated except frustration on both sides. I hope that I'd have the guts to tell her more directly if I were in that situation now --- but I'm afraid would still find it extremely awkward...

P.S. What about songs like 'Honesty' by Billy Joel, and what is the one that goes something like 'cruel to be kind in the right measure' (can't remember either title or singer/band)?

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


kiwifan
Rohan

Jul 22 2011, 11:38pm

Post #585 of 601 (9572 views)
Shortcut
who are your people? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not trying to tease you, I simply can't figure out who you are referring to. ??

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


sueb1863
Rivendell


Jul 23 2011, 12:13am

Post #586 of 601 (9574 views)
Shortcut
They may have tweaked Kili [In reply to] Can't Post

In the most recent video blog, KIli's hair is shorter, messier, and it looks brown instead of black. His overall appearance isn't as polished, he looks scruffier. He doesn't look so much like a shampoo ad!


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 25 2011, 4:48pm

Post #587 of 601 (9549 views)
Shortcut
Hair, Hair long beautiful hair... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
In the most recent video blog, KIli's hair is shorter, messier, and it looks brown instead of black. His overall appearance isn't as polished, he looks scruffier. He doesn't look so much like a shampoo ad!


I don't think his hair actually changed color, I think it was just the lighting, brown hair can look black in the right settings. Thorin's hair looks more brown too, in some of the bits and pieces from the video. I always figured Kili kind of got tossed to the wolves as the "pretty boy" complete with inexplicable wind machine to make it easier to accept the OTHER not quite so dwarfy(to some people's interpretations) dwarves, especially Thorin. I don't know, the shampoo model thing just felt exaggerated for effect to me.

I think if Thorin had been released, say right after Oin and Gloin, it would have been "OH MY GOD HE LOOKS too human!!!". There was still some of that, but by the time Thorin came along it was more like "Hey yeah, he looks OK, I can accept that" And I really think that was because some fans(not all) who were inclined to dislike such appearances got to see just how "bad" it could be with Kili first so suddenly Thorin looked pretty good being a bit older and rougher.

Then, they released the video and suddenly even Kili doesn't actually look so bad in action because, you know, there is no wind machine following him around and his hair is a mess. LOL

I think it was a very smart marketing ploy. :)


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Jul 25 2011, 4:50pm)


sueb1863
Rivendell


Aug 1 2011, 1:11am

Post #588 of 601 (9525 views)
Shortcut
Found this video capture... [In reply to] Can't Post

...of Aidan Turner as Kili:

http://twitpic.com/5xjy1c

I think here he looks scruffier, more dwarf-like and nowhere near the smooth, elfish way he looked in the publicity shot.

Just passing it along!


marillaraina
Rohan

Aug 2 2011, 7:02am

Post #589 of 601 (9627 views)
Shortcut
Nice [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw a smaller version of that capture when the video was originally released. Thanks for the bigger version.

Nose and eyebrows too.


Niniel Valinor
Rivendell


Aug 4 2011, 9:00pm

Post #590 of 601 (9651 views)
Shortcut
More cute then sexy... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've always thought of Fili and Kili kinda like the dwarf versions of Merry and Pippin, just a little less naive, but still young at heart. That's why those photos works for me. Expecially after seeing the production videos. I don't find any of the dwarfs sexy, but I do find those two cute as buttons which works for me considering that's how I expected and hoped they'd be like.

As for the neverending discussions about beards... sigh... lol. I'm a huuuuge fan of Tolkien, of the books as well as PJ & Co, but things like beards doesn't bother me. They all have some sort of facial hair. And the fact that some says they look more like Disney dwarves... WHAT? I was terrified that they WOULD look like the seven dwarves from Snowhite. With different coloured hats. It works on paper, but it would be terrible on screen with 13 identical dwarves only difference by the color of their hats.

So I love my two faves!


marillaraina
Rohan

Aug 4 2011, 9:39pm

Post #591 of 601 (9589 views)
Shortcut
Me too [In reply to] Can't Post

I feel very similarly. It would be one thing if hair wasn't playing a major role but dwarf hair is clearly playing a major role, both of the beard and scalp variety. :) So I just see it as adding a little more variety to the whole idea that hair is a kind of cultural importance, just in different ways and more individual ways than just being all about the length of the beard.

Fili and Kili I think definitely have the potential to be TH's Merry and Pippin.

One thing I really hope is that they are developed well enough for their death's to mean something. And for it to be shown. I don't just want to be told "Oh yeah Fili and Kili died" like in the book or to be like "oh yeah, those two dwarves, what were there names again...yeah they died, during the battle, I noticed it off to the side"

The deaths of Thorin and Fili and Kili is one aspect that is quite different from LOTR I feel. The only member of the original fellowship who died in LOTR was Boromir and it was early in the journey. Three of the characters with whom we travel through The Hobbit from the beginning are going to die near the end and in the brothers' case, it's at the beginning(relatively speaking) of their lives, when they should have their whole lives ahead of them. I want it to mean something.


In Reply To
I've always thought of Fili and Kili kinda like the dwarf versions of Merry and Pippin, just a little less naive, but still young at heart. That's why those photos works for me. Expecially after seeing the production videos. I don't find any of the dwarfs sexy, but I do find those two cute as buttons which works for me considering that's how I expected and hoped they'd be like.

As for the neverending discussions about beards... sigh... lol. I'm a huuuuge fan of Tolkien, of the books as well as PJ & Co, but things like beards doesn't bother me. They all have some sort of facial hair. And the fact that some says they look more like Disney dwarves... WHAT? I was terrified that they WOULD look like the seven dwarves from Snowhite. With different coloured hats. It works on paper, but it would be terrible on screen with 13 identical dwarves only difference by the color of their hats.

So I love my two faves!



Niniel Valinor
Rivendell


Aug 5 2011, 7:43am

Post #592 of 601 (9539 views)
Shortcut
Oh I know [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that loads of hair seem to be a part of the dwarf culture obviously, but I think they've done it well with them in the movies. Some has loads of beard, some less, but still some kind of facial hair. But of course that's just my opinion XD I don't wanna force it on anyone - just voice it lol.

Oh I totally agree with you. I hope indeed they develope most of them, also those two since they do die. As long as they just don't pull a "Harry Potter" and suddenly you see characters you have become fond of is just dead. Speaking of, we don't "read" their deaths scenes in TH either do we? Shocked


sueb1863
Rivendell


Aug 5 2011, 10:25am

Post #593 of 601 (9520 views)
Shortcut
Nope [In reply to] Can't Post

It's mentioned after Thorin's death that Kili and FIli fell defending him, and they're buried with him under the mountain. Bilbo says farewell to them when he also says farewell to Thorin as he's departing, in a general sort of way, and that's about it.

I suspect PJ will flesh it out quite a bit! I think PJ will want the focus to be on Bilbo and Thorin, but I'm sure F&K won't get the 'oh by the way, they died too' blink and you miss it treatment!


marillaraina
Rohan

Aug 6 2011, 4:12am

Post #594 of 601 (9648 views)
Shortcut
Hmmmm [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I suspect PJ will flesh it out quite a bit! I think PJ will want the focus to be on Bilbo and Thorin


Well when you think about it, Fili and Kili might even be a good way to flesh out the focus on Bilbo and Thorin. Fili and Kili are sometimes sympathetic towards Bilbo and in the end, while they stay with the dwarves, they do tend to agree, along with Balin, that perhaps this isn't the best way to handle the whole "treasure" thing.

So in a way, they could possibly be used as a sort of "caught in the middle" type of plot point. They are dwarves, and they certainly remain loyal to their uncle, but they do have some sympathy for other opinions.


sarahb1863
Rivendell


Aug 6 2011, 3:19pm

Post #595 of 601 (9566 views)
Shortcut
I agree [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Well when you think about it, Fili and Kili might even be a good way to flesh out the focus on Bilbo and Thorin. Fili and Kili are sometimes sympathetic towards Bilbo and in the end, while they stay with the dwarves, they do tend to agree, along with Balin, that perhaps this isn't the best way to handle the whole "treasure" thing.

So in a way, they could possibly be used as a sort of "caught in the middle" type of plot point. They are dwarves, and they certainly remain loyal to their uncle, but they do have some sympathy for other opinions.


Definitely. The fact that Kili and Fili basically disagree with Thorin's refusal to share the gold, yet defend him anyway and die doing it, is to me very tragic. I'm really hoping that PJ writes some dialogue that goes, in essence anyway, like this:

Bard: Wow, we could really use some of your gold to rebuild our town.

Thorin: Go stuff yourself! It's all ours.

Fili/Kili: Uncle, this is wrong! There's tons of gold and Bard killed Smaug. We should do the right thing and share it with him.

Thorin: Ah, you're just children, you don't understand, this is a matter of dwarf honor. All you two do is joke and sing. You didn't even care about the gold we got, you just took those silly useless harps!

Fili/Kili: The harps are cool!

Thorin: Ah, kids today. You two are just a couple of hippies! Grow a beard, son!

Fili/Kili stomp off

Later on, the dwarves are getting their armor on to go fight. Thorin's putting on his armor and look up. There's Kili and Fili, looking smokin' hot in their metal duds.

Thorin: What the hell? I thought you two were against all this!

Fili/Kili: We are, but you are our mother's brother and we swore to protect you. We can sing songs after all this is over.

Thorin: That's more like it. Let's go kick some goblin butt!

(the battle occurs and, sadly, the dwarves do not kick goblin butt. Thorin is badly wounded and realizes, after watching a LOT of death, that maybe this was a bad idea and he's going to lose. He gets another spear in the breadbasket and looks up to see Kili and Fili hacking away the goblins who are attacking him. Earlier this would have filled him with dwarfy pride, but he's bleeding from several orifices and full of pain and is suddenly, blazingly aware that his young hippie nephews are about to get killed. So NOT in the original plan! Suddenly all the gold in the world don't mean squat.)

Thorin: You crazy kids! Get away from here, it's hopeless!

But, no use. Fili and Kili have both seen that Thorin is gravely wounded and they won't budge away from him - he's their uncle and they swore to defend him no matter what. We switch to Haldir-death-slo-mo and Thorin watches in horror as both brothers fall. Maybe Kili is wounded first, Fili rushes to defend him and then gets stabbed, I dunno. But the upshot is, Thorin sees both of his sister's sons die defending HIS dream -which they didn't even support, in the end.

Not sure where it goes from here, but in my world Thorin's speech at the end about the world being a better place if it valued songs and cheer above hoarded gold takes on an added poignancy. And in my world, when Kili and Fili are shown on their funeral biers each is holding not a sword, but a gleaming golden harp. Sob!!


marillaraina
Rohan

Aug 7 2011, 2:22am

Post #596 of 601 (9532 views)
Shortcut
LOL [In reply to] Can't Post

I shouldn't laugh but the "Kids today" and You two are just a couple of hippies" cracks me up. :) Oh and "Go stuff yourself!" There needs to some comedy version where he says just that.

But yes, on a more serious note, I think that would not be a bad direction to take it. When you think about it, if part of the lesson being taught in the story is "Greed isn't good" and "Pride goeth before the fall"(so to speak) - then what better way to hit that home, for Thorin than the death of his nephews, a couple of young, likeable, good-hearted chaps who were also brave and loyal, who were his heirs though not his children and who died for him - when it should have been the other way around.

ETA: You know we are probably setting ourselves up for some disappointment. :)


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Aug 7 2011, 2:24am)


sarahb1863
Rivendell


Aug 7 2011, 3:37am

Post #597 of 601 (9569 views)
Shortcut
:-) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I shouldn't laugh but the "Kids today" and You two are just a couple of hippies" cracks me up. :) Oh and "Go stuff yourself!" There needs to some comedy version where he says just that.


Oh, it's OK to laugh at those parts, they're supposed to be funny! :-) Glad ya like 'em.


In Reply To
But yes, on a more serious note, I think that would not be a bad direction to take it. When you think about it, if part of the lesson being taught in the story is "Greed isn't good" and "Pride goeth before the fall"(so to speak) - then what better way to hit that home, for Thorin than the death of his nephews, a couple of young, likeable, good-hearted chaps who were also brave and loyal, who were his heirs though not his children and who died for him - when it should have been the other way around.


Exactly! Fili and Kili are the sacrificial lambs to Thorin's greed. It doesn't need to be that melodramatic maybe, but if PJ works it in to some extent I'll be a happy camper. :-)


In Reply To
ETA: You know we are probably setting ourselves up for some disappointment. :)


Well, hey, that's what fanfic is for! I've written AUs before, I can do it again!


Niniel Valinor
Rivendell


Aug 8 2011, 7:58am

Post #598 of 601 (9533 views)
Shortcut
Goblin butt [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh Ah yeah sorry for laughing too. Your Thorin is hilarious hahaha. Goblin butts and kids these days and hippies... and go stuff yourself almost had me on the floor. Love it Evil


(This post was edited by Niniel Valinor on Aug 8 2011, 7:58am)


sarahb1863
Rivendell


Aug 9 2011, 1:56am

Post #599 of 601 (9509 views)
Shortcut
:-) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Laugh Ah yeah sorry for laughing too. Your Thorin is hilarious hahaha. Goblin butts and kids these days and hippies... and go stuff yourself almost had me on the floor. Love it Evil


Thanks! Well, to Thorin Kili and Fili sort of ARE hippies - ie, non-conformist dwarves, since they don't seem to like hoarding the gold, took harps from the treasure instead of gold, and seem a lot closer in character to Bilbo than any of their dwarf kin.

And now, here's a random Photoshop I did tonight. Thought a Kili and Fili thread would be a good place to share it!



Enjoy!


Niniel Valinor
Rivendell


Aug 9 2011, 8:23am

Post #600 of 601 (9491 views)
Shortcut
Lol [In reply to] Can't Post

Only male Tolkien characters can get away with braids XD

And damnit is he smiling again? lol. Seen that fella' three times (Twice in prod. vid and one on the photo) and he's always smiling Shocked

First page Previous page 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.