|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
adu
Bree
Jul 7 2011, 12:27am
Post #1 of 33
(2493 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The transition of Sauron/Necromancer from Hobbit to LOTR
|
Can't Post
|
|
I still dont understand how the film-makers will show the transition of the Necromancer from a physical form in The Hobbit movies to becoming the Eye manifestation shown in LOTR.
This is coming from a person who has not read earlier books to know what actually happened to Sauron's character, which is what I suspect most of the audience watching the Hobbit movies would not know either.
I am curious to hear thoughts?
|
|
|
Elizabeth
Half-elven
Jul 7 2011, 12:58am
Post #2 of 33
(1010 views)
Shortcut
|
The Necromancer did not appear at all in The Hobbit. All the action relating to him was off stage, and all we know of that is that he withdrew from Dol Guldur to Mordor. For that matter, in the LotR books there is a reference to his having a physical form (Gollum was quoted as saying he had "nine fingers, but they were enough"). We have no idea as to what form he took in any of this, where there was a humanoid being, or the Eye, or if the Eye was just an appliance of some sort.
So, any "transition" will be entirely up to the filmmakers.
Join us in the Reading Room for "The Return of the King" Book V! starting now!
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
|
|
|
adu
Bree
Jul 7 2011, 1:05am
Post #3 of 33
(967 views)
Shortcut
|
That is exactly what I am looking for thoughts on. Since Sauron won't be in the Eye form in The Hobbit, what form will he take? and I wonder how they intend on showing him become the Eye, if at all, in order to show continuation for LOTR.
I dont see how they wont explain his transformation, otherwise everyone not familiar with the stories will be left wondering how the evil Sauron went from a physical form (assumption) to an Eye in about 70 yrs.
|
|
|
Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Jul 7 2011, 1:12am
Post #4 of 33
(970 views)
Shortcut
|
|
In my humble opinion Sauron was never the eye.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
It is the eye of Sauron not Sauron the Eye. Sauron occupies the iron tower of Baradur the Manifested eye is one of his devices.
And yes I know what Pete said. He was only jesting.
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
|
|
|
lurtz2010
Rohan
Jul 7 2011, 1:21am
Post #5 of 33
(950 views)
Shortcut
|
that "he cannot yet take physical form" so I always assumed he had just been some kind of spirit thing ever since Isildur took him out but maybe it just means that he can't take physical form since the Dol Guldur battle? I hope he does have a body of some sort in the movie
|
|
|
adu
Bree
Jul 7 2011, 1:27am
Post #6 of 33
(922 views)
Shortcut
|
So what form do you think they will show him in in The Hobbit? Do you imagine there will there be some epic wizard battle showing his defeat and him escaping to his Tower and hence showing the transition to the Eye manifestation
|
|
|
Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Jul 7 2011, 1:42am
Post #7 of 33
(917 views)
Shortcut
|
|
He will be what ever he wears as he is something like a Wraith (but not).
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
In becoming material he would be an unwraith. The cloths will make the man (er Evil Lord...demigod...).
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
|
|
|
Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 7 2011, 2:32am
Post #8 of 33
(893 views)
Shortcut
|
And you have to remember he's a traitor and has been lying to Gandalf about a number of things. He may have been saying that to keep Gandalf from suspecting that he knew more about Sauron's condition than he should.
In the book, Gollum says Sauron has only nine fingers on the Black Hands, which indicates a physical form.
It will be interesting to see how they deal with it in the Hobbit movies.
Silverlode
"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you." -On Fairy Stories
|
|
|
Baldor
The Shire
Jul 7 2011, 2:57am
Post #9 of 33
(895 views)
Shortcut
|
Was Cumberbatch as Necromancer confirmed as a rumor or fact? If Cumberbatch is actually playing the Necromancer, I could definitely see an Annatar appearance for Sauron/Necro and I would support that.
|
|
|
Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 7 2011, 3:41am
Post #10 of 33
(881 views)
Shortcut
|
The Necromancer is still speculation.
Silverlode
"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you." -On Fairy Stories
|
|
|
Elizabeth
Half-elven
Jul 7 2011, 7:16am
Post #11 of 33
(811 views)
Shortcut
|
It is not necessary for the Necromancer to appear in any form in The Hobbit. He may, but it is not necessary. And if he does appear at all, I think it will be as a shadowy, insubstantial form. A more concrete representation would trivialize the myth.
Join us in the Reading Room for "The Return of the King" Book V! starting now!
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
|
|
|
dormouse
Half-elven
Jul 7 2011, 7:17am
Post #12 of 33
(862 views)
Shortcut
|
I've never seen 'the Eye' as Sauron himself, just a representation of the intensity of his surveillance of Middle Earth and his determination to rule it. I think Suron himself is better unseen, or glimpsed only in part. Attempt to define him too completely in words or on film and you reduce the horror by putting an outline round it.
And Peter Jackson does tease!
|
|
|
Alientraveller
Lorien
Jul 7 2011, 10:49am
Post #13 of 33
(813 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I've come under fire for saying this
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
but I believe Sauron will live up to his title by inhabiting a corpse. This is PJ and GDT we're talking about, they're not going to pass up a chance for zombies and ghouls. Dol Guldur has a serious house of horror potential. Just imagine Gandalf and Elrond escaping the dungeons, having recovered the map and key from Thrain, only to encounter an Elf corpse with a sickly green pallor and burning red eyes like the Eye.
|
|
|
micha84
Rivendell
Jul 7 2011, 11:40am
Post #14 of 33
(747 views)
Shortcut
|
It is the eye of Sauron not Sauron the Eye. Sauron occupies the iron tower of Baradur the Manifested eye is one of his devices.
And yes I know what Pete said. He was only jesting.
|
|
|
Faenoriel
Tol Eressea
Jul 7 2011, 12:22pm
Post #15 of 33
(755 views)
Shortcut
|
He could be literally inhabitating the entire Dol Guldur as his "body". Now that's the ultimate haunted house. ;)
Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster
|
|
|
Jettorex
Lorien
Jul 7 2011, 12:24pm
Post #16 of 33
(742 views)
Shortcut
|
...if they show Sauron at all in TH then he will probably appear as a kind of super wraith. They dont need to show any transition to LotR because they don't show Sauron in LotR. As Kangi said, the great eye is just a device of Sauron, not Sauron himself.
- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
|
|
|
Faenoriel
Tol Eressea
Jul 7 2011, 12:30pm
Post #17 of 33
(757 views)
Shortcut
|
saying things like "Saruman might have lied" and "it wasn't like that in the book" won't help us here. The point is to try to avoid creating confusion for the audience. And the LotR films did leave many viewers thinking the Eye was Sauron himself. So the question "how to explain he's not the Eye in the Hobbit" is relevant.
One way I can come up with is that Sauron is shown to use some king of similar or analogous device in Dol Guldur (the Nose of Sauron, anyone?), while still also possessing other manifestations such as possessing corpses, showing up in mirrors or taking some kind of hallucitional fair humanoid form. This would let the audience know that Sauron isn't tied to just one manifestation or body (making him more scary than a normal enemy tied into mortal flesh), and also nudge them that the Eye of the Trilogy wasn't actually Sauron.
Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster
(This post was edited by Faenoriel on Jul 7 2011, 12:31pm)
|
|
|
Flagg
Tol Eressea
Jul 7 2011, 12:45pm
Post #18 of 33
(733 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I think the Eye is a periscope created by a combination of the Ithil-stone and Sauron's sorcery. //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien
Jul 7 2011, 2:22pm
Post #20 of 33
(730 views)
Shortcut
|
he will be like a " super wraith ". When he driven to Mordor I would like to see the three elven ring's power unleashed!
All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...
|
|
|
Flagg
Tol Eressea
Jul 7 2011, 2:33pm
Post #21 of 33
(728 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The Three don't really have aggressive powers in the books
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
They can preserve things quite nicely, but they're not the sort of rings you'd bring to a fight.
|
|
|
Scot Down South
The Shire
Jul 7 2011, 2:46pm
Post #22 of 33
(746 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Key is in his name - Necromancer
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I go with Sauron attempting to give himself a physical body through 'dark arts' hence his reputation. He only manages an 'eye' in the LOTR books.
Sounds a bit like some other book / movie franchise hitting the screens about now but everyone has taken ideas from JRRT's work these last fifty years.
|
|
|
Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien
Jul 7 2011, 2:52pm
Post #23 of 33
(708 views)
Shortcut
|
as Galadriel used her ring to preserve and beautify Lothlorien. She also used her ring to protect the borders of Lothlorien and conceal her realm form the eye of Sauron. just as Elrond used his ring to protect the borders of Rivendell. If Nenya has the powers of concealment maybe this is how the White Council could enter Dol Guldur? Elrond's ring can control minor events (i.e. a torrent of water, in addition to its healing and preservation powers) so maybe it also can play a small part.
All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...
|
|
|
Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Jul 7 2011, 3:30pm
Post #24 of 33
(733 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I may be mistaken but I think Sauron
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
ordered the Eye-O-Scope from The Acme Catalog of Middle-earth Sorcery. There was a special on it in 2941.
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
|
|
|
Flagg
Tol Eressea
Jul 7 2011, 3:46pm
Post #25 of 33
(680 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I meant 'periscope' in the figurative sense, and I was not joking. //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
