|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Aug 8 2007, 6:55am
Post #1 of 18
(7958 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Sauron's "original name" revealed in new Tolkien publication.
|
Can't Post
|
|
Or: how Sauron is like John Wayne.
This morning I returned from the 38th annual conference of the Mythopoeic Society in Berkeley, CA, a great weekend about which I hope soon to report in full. Just now I'd like to note that, inspired by squire's suggestion that Tolkien's more "discursive" linguistic writings like "Sí Qente Feanor", "Ósanwe-kenta: Enquiry into the Communication of Thought", and "The Rivers and Beacon-hills of Gondor" deserve more than linguistic attention, I bought the first of those works and a good deal more in four issues of the journal Parma Eldalamberon published by the "Elvish Linguistic Fellowship", the group sanctioned by Christopher Tolkien to edit his father's elvish texts. Among these is the journal's recently-released seventeenth issue, Words, Phrases & Passages in various tongues in The Lord of the Rings, edited by Christopher Gilson. This work has been edited from several unfinished annotated lists of words (and associated roots) from LotR, with the most detail given to material from the beginning of FotR through Book II, Chapter 6; there are also associated notes that Tolkien made in response to fan letters and while preparing comments for the song cycle The Road Goes Ever On. Tolkien apparently worked on these texts at various times from the publication of LotR in 1954-55 until at least the appearance of the second edition in 1965. Some of the notes run to several pages in length. I gather that a few excerpts have previously appeared in other publications of Tolkien's languages.
Words, Phrases & Passages in various tongues in The Lord of the Rings, which is 220 pages long including the index, is apparently not yet available for purchase online, but presumably soon will be at the E.L.F. website. I think even non-linguists will find much of interest in this work, which is full of fascinating tidbits, for instance this quip concerning the Black Speech:
I have tried to play fair linguistically, and it is meant to have a meaning and not to be a mere casual group of nasty noises, though an accurate translation would even nowadays only be printable in the higher and artistically more advanced forms of literature.
There is also material as disparate as a long explanation of the difficulty of translating the phrase "try harder", little drawings of Tol Brandir (the island near Rauros) and the Misty Mountain peaks of Celebdil and Caradhras, and a fascinating examination of the meaning of "umbar".
But what most caught my attention was the entry for the root "SAWA", whence the name "Sauron" derives. It has been previously noted on this board that "Sauron", which translates as "The Abhorred", is unlikely to have been that character's "original" name within the legendarium but should be imagined as having been given him by the elves based on his deeds. On another forum, dna compiled a list of the characters to whom Tolkien gave the most names; Sauron leads the pack:
SAURON: the Abhorred, abominable, Annatar, Artano, (Ash Nazg), Aulendil, [Barad-dûr], Base Master of Treachery, the Betrayer, Black Hand, Black Master, Black One, Black Thû, Bridhon, (the Burden), Captain of Angband, chief servant of Morgoth, the Cruel, dark hands of the East, Dark Lord, Dark Lord of Mordor, Dark Master, Dark Power, Dark Power's deputy, [Dark Tower], the Deceiver, detestable, the Enemy, Enemy of the Free Peoples, Evil Eye, evil Lord, the Eye, Eye of Barad-dûr, Eye of the Dark Tower, God-king, Gorsodh, Gorthaur, Gorthû, (Gollum's Ring), the Great, greatest of the servants of Melkor, Great Eye, Great One, (Great Ring), [Great Tower], He, He whom we do not name, High-smith, Him, the hunter, (Isildur’s Bane), the King, King of Men, Lidless Eye, Lieutenant of Morgoth, the Lord, Lord of Barad-dûr, Lord of Gifts, Lord of Mordor, Lord of the Dark Tower, Lord of the Black Land, Lord of the Earth, Lord of the Ring, Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Rings of Power, Lord of Werewolves, Lord of Wolves, the Magician, Maia of Aulë, se Malsca, the Master, Master of Treachery, (Master Ring), Meoita, Miaugian, Mighty One, Morthû, the Nameless, Nameless Eye, Nameless One, Necromancer, (the One), (One Ring), Red Eye, (the Ring), Ring-lord, Ringmaker, (Ring of Doom), (Ring of Isildur), (Ring of Power), (Ring of Rings), Ruler of Middle-earth, (Ruling Ring), Saura, Sauro, Sauron, Saurond, Sauron Redivivus, Sauron the Magician, Saweron, the Seducer, Servant of Morgoth, Servant of Aulë, the Shadow, Shadow of Despair, Sorcerer, Sorcerer of Dol Guldur, Sûr, Suro, Tevildo, Tevildo Prince of Cats, Tevildo Vardo Meoita, Thauron, THAW-ron, Thû, Tiberth, Tiberth Bridhon Miaugion, Tifil, Tifil Bridhon Miaugion, the Unnamed, Vardo, the Wizard, Wolf-Sauron, Zigûr, θaurond
The brackets and parentheses in this list indicate occasions on which dna equated Sauron with his Tower or Ring, respectively. As for Sauron's original name, dna tentatively put forth "Vardo". But the new list shows that Tolkien, at least c. 1960, had a different idea; this is from p. 183:
Sauron's original name was Mairon, but this was altered after he was suborned by Melkor. But he continued to call himself Mairon the Admirable, or Tar-mairon 'King Excellent' until after the downfall of Númenor.
So, what do you think of "Mairon"?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Discuss The Children of Húrin in the Reading Room, June 11-October 14.
|
|
|
Noneoftheabove
Menegroth
Aug 8 2007, 9:44am
Post #2 of 18
(5643 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Kids would beat you up at school with a name like...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Myron! At least that is how I would pronounce it. Of course, My-RON sounds somewhat better.
Excellent post btw!
|
|
|
Modtheow
Menegroth
Aug 8 2007, 3:24pm
Post #3 of 18
(5655 views)
Shortcut
|
Somehow, I like that name. I think I shall name myself: Queen Not-So-Bad. Anyway, I have loads of questions:
Is the quote about Sauron's original name from one of Tolkien's unpublished papers?
You said that you were looking at the entry for the root "SAWA" (whence "Sauron"), but does Tolkien make "Mairon" derive from this root?
The little drawings that you mention (of Tol Brandir and other places): are these drawings that we haven't seen before?
Have you decided to study Elvish?
When will you tell us about the best papers and the most fun things that you did?
Did you have a mini-TORn moot?
Have they decided where next year's Mythopoeic Society meeting will be?
Did the Scull and Hammond Chronology-Guide win the prize for best scholarly publication?
Ok, that's all I have for now! Answer, and I shall name you: King Informative!
|
|
|
N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Aug 8 2007, 3:51pm
Post #4 of 18
(5641 views)
Shortcut
|
Is the quote about Sauron's original name from one of Tolkien's unpublished papers?
Yes, almost all of Words, Phrases & Passages in various tongues in The Lord of the Rings is previously unpublished; my limited understanding is that a few excerpts have previously appeared in other publications by E.L.F.; while some passages are very close to phrasing that Tolkien used in either Roads Go Ever On or in changes made to the second edition of LotR. Comments in the introduction by editor, Christopher Gilson, indicate that Scull and Hammond refer to the work in their Companion & Guide but I can't find the reference. Googling "Mairon" with "Sauron" suggests that this name has not previously been made public. "Mairon" appears in a list of roots that Gilson tentatively dates to 1959-60.
You said that you were looking at the entry for the root "SAWA" (whence "Sauron"), but does Tolkien make "Mairon" derive from this root?
No, "Mairon" derives from "MAY", "excellent, admirable" hence "Maia". Tolkien's note on "Mairon" that I quoted appears with his comments on the name "Sauron" under the listing for the root "SAWA"; he doesn't trace the etymology of "Mairon" as far as I can tell.
The little drawings that you mention (of Tol Brandir and other places): are these drawings that we haven't seen before?
They are previously unpublished, I believe, but are very very simple line drawings.
Have you decided to study Elvish?
No.
When will you tell us about the best papers and the most fun things that you did?
In about a week.
Did you have a mini-TORn moot?
I mooted with drogo. I know that Wonderbroad and sevilodorf were supposed to be in attendance, but we never met.
Have they decided where next year's Mythopoeic Society meeting will be?
Yes -- Connecticut!
Did the Scull and Hammond Chronology-Guide win the prize for best scholarly publication?
Scull and Hammond did win the prize for Inklings scholarship, their second win in two years. (This was also noted on TORN's home page.) They were not in Berkeley, but sent their regrets and an acceptance speech -- which was read to the banquet attendees by drogo.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Discuss The Children of Húrin in the Reading Room, June 11-October 14.
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 8 2007, 4:09pm
Post #5 of 18
(5602 views)
Shortcut
|
*scours Mythopoeic Society website* They haven't put it up, yet - do you recall which college/university it would be at?
*makes note to clean up the guest room*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago."
(Avatar pic: The Calanais stones, Isle of Lewis)
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
Modtheow
Menegroth
Aug 8 2007, 4:24pm
Post #6 of 18
(5571 views)
Shortcut
|
Connecticut, eh? That's looking a little more do-able for next year.
I'm sure that Scull&Hammond were nominated with other good books, but it would have been crazy if an incredible piece of work like theirs didn't win the prize.
Thanks, NEB, for all the info! I'm looking forward to your report on the meetings!
|
|
|
weaver
Gondolin
Aug 8 2007, 4:38pm
Post #7 of 18
(5591 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Sounds like the name of an evil Librarian...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
But if you are going for the look fair and feel foul kind of thing, that might actually work...
What a treasure trove of a post this is -- thanks!
Weaver
|
|
|
Saelind
Menegroth
Aug 9 2007, 3:00am
Post #8 of 18
(5554 views)
Shortcut
|
I usually get lost with Tolkien lignuistic material so perhaps another angle would help me get a better grasp of it. I may have to get that issue of Parma as well. And thank you for your psot on Sauron's "true name". It is always nice when little gems like this show up.
|
|
|
Wynnie
Nargothrond
Aug 9 2007, 12:11pm
Post #10 of 18
(5539 views)
Shortcut
|
Hmmm, not too far. Maybe ...
I sit beside the fire and think
of all that I have seen,
of meadow-flowers and butterflies
in summers that have been
|
|
|
a.s.
Doriath
Aug 9 2007, 12:25pm
Post #11 of 18
(5544 views)
Shortcut
|
has GOT to beat DC in August!
a.s. ((pencils in date on 2008 Outlook calendar))
"an seileachan"
"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."
~~Mother Theresa
|
|
|
GaladrielTX
Dor-Lomin
Aug 9 2007, 5:35pm
Post #12 of 18
(5568 views)
Shortcut
|
I would be sorely tempted to call him Mor-on instead.
~~~~~~~~
Coming up with reasons for changing my nick from GaladrielTX to Galadriel wore me out.
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 10 2007, 4:48am
Post #13 of 18
(5510 views)
Shortcut
|
...but we do get tempered by the ocean breezes, even a bit inland.
I think I sense a Moot in the works...!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago."
(Avatar pic: The Calanais stones, Isle of Lewis)
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 10 2007, 4:51am
Post #14 of 18
(5511 views)
Shortcut
|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago."
(Avatar pic: The Calanais stones, Isle of Lewis)
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
Elizabeth
Gondolin
Aug 10 2007, 8:01pm
Post #15 of 18
(5560 views)
Shortcut
|
How do you pronounce that?
But, seriously, thanks for this intriguing bit of lore. That must have been a great conference!
Son of Elizabeth in Frodo's tree
March, 2007
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
|
|
|
N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Aug 10 2007, 8:47pm
Post #16 of 18
(5512 views)
Shortcut
|
It comes through fine where dna posted it on TORC; I can also get it in Word, but I can't get it here.
And you're welcome!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Discuss The Children of Húrin in the Reading Room, June 11-October 14.
|
|
|
visualweasel
Nargothrond
Aug 10 2007, 9:20pm
Post #17 of 18
(5613 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Mairon? Thû would have guessed? ;)
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Thanks for the great post, NEB! Wow, you really weren't kidding when you told me about PE17! It's annoying they don't have it up for sale yet. I do have to say that I don't particularly like the sound of Mairon (I admit it: I'm distracted by "Myron"), nor its obvious closeness to Maia. It makes sense; I just don't like it that much. Although it is better than Thû. :)
Jason Fisher
Lingwë - Musings of a Fish
|
|
|
drogo
Menegroth
Aug 13 2007, 4:59pm
Post #18 of 18
(5548 views)
Shortcut
|
|
That a Mary name if I ever heard one!
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
That is a wonderful resource! I snagged a copy, but had to mail it to myself, so I will have to wait for it.
As for the name, I still prefer Tevildo the Prince of Cats, but that's just me!
|
|
|
|
|
