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Smeagirl/Girllum
Mithlond
Jul 21 2007, 1:12am
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I'm up to p. 145 of the Sil! More reasons this is taking me years
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More reasons it is taking me years to read the Silmarillion (my prior post is here):
15. I came to a screeching halt on p. 101: "To the north of the great height of Mount Dolmed was Gabilgathol, which the Elves interpreted in their tongue Belegost, that is Mickleburg . . ." Mickleburg?!?!?! Mickleburg?!?!?! There's no other word anywhere in this book that sounds even remotely like Mickleburg. Someone must've gotten Tolkien's manuscripts mixed up and this snuck in from another work. I was scared to pick up the book for a week after this -- what if I turn the page and encounter an elf named Joe or something?
16. I took a break to read the first four Harry Potter books. This took about a week (compared
to years for the Silmarillion). Smeagirl loves Dobby the House Elf! What a charming character.
Pillowcases are the new loincloths.
17. Typos! I've found a few, and it makes me happy. If the typists and editors were having
trouble too, I don't feel so bad.
18. Whenever I pick up the book, I get dismayed at how old and beat up it's looking. It looked so shiny and new when I got it. I hope it lasts through at least one reading. If it falls apart before I get to the end, I'm writing to the publisher to demand a new one. And then if someone from there calls me, like "Hi, this is Joe Mickleburg from Houghton Mifflin . . ." I can finally learn how to pronouce Houghton.
19. I stopped after this sentence: "They [the Green-elves of Ossiriand] were clad in green in spring and summer, and the sound of their singing could be heard even across the waters of Gelion . . ." What the heck were they wearing in fall and winter that Tolkien didn't want to tell us about? Pillowcases maybe?
20. I stop to calculate when I might be finished. Maybe five more years? So it will have taken
me the same length of time to read the Sil as to pay off my student loans. Then I start
wondering which was more mentally taxing, college and graduate school or the Sil. Haven't
decided yet. At least the Sil was cheaper, even if I wind up having to buy multiple copies.
21. In the chapter "Of Beleriand And Its Realms," after every single sentence I stopped to wonder if I should look at a map. And decided not to bother. Then felt guilty.
22. I stopped after this part: "And desiring above all to sow fear and disunion among the Eldar, he [Morgoth (but I'm picturing Scott)] commanded the Orcs to take alive any of them that they could and bring them bound to Angband . . ." Hey wait a minute, did Tolkien just mention a whole bunch of elves without giving them names? Hmm, come to think of it there were some other passages where we heard about elves without names. Weird! This sounds like an interesting part of the story too. Maybe I should write some fan-fiction about these poor elf prisoners. But they'd have to get rescued in my story, because it's just too depressing if they die in captivity. But first . . . I could give them funny names! *turns to appendices*
"I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it." --Gandalf
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silneldor
Gondolin
Jul 21 2007, 1:46am
Post #2 of 24
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 That doesn't sound all that bad  . I will get to it one day.
Beechbark gray. Yup, that were the winter color ....i betch ya.
Hey, the book looks used because, you ARE working on it. Going to the map page took its toll .
"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."
Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez
daffobombadils crash Lorien
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L. Ron Halfelven
Hithlum
Jul 21 2007, 2:13am
Post #3 of 24
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The Mickleburg Rotary Club welcomes you to the Crossroads of Beleriand!/
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a.s.
Doriath
Jul 21 2007, 11:56am
Post #4 of 24
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here's what comes up when you search mickle:definition in Google (not that it makes the Sil any easier to get through!! just for interest):
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
Mickle \Mic"kle\, a. [OE. mikel, muchel, mochel, mukel, AS. micel, mycel; akin to OS. mikil, OHG. mihil, mihhil, Icel. mikill, mykill, Goth. mikils, L. magnus, Gr. ?, gen. ?; cf. Skr. mahat. [root]103. Cf. Much, Muckle, Magnitude.] Much; great. [Written also muckle and mockle.] [Old Eng. & Scot.] ``A man of mickle might.'' --Spenser.
mickle definition adj. Great. adv. Greatly.
mickle etymology [Middle English mikel, from Old English micel and from Old Norse mikill; see meg- in Indo-European roots.]
"an seileachan"
"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."
~~Mother Theresa
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 21 2007, 12:36pm
Post #5 of 24
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Methinks Tolkien was mickle fond of that word...
Did you know, that none of Tolkien's names begins with a "J"? Seriously! Look in all the indices!
Okay, how does one pronounce "Houghton": "hoff-ton"? "hoo-ton"? "how-ton"? "howf-ton"? Does anybody really know?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago."
(Avatar pic: The Calanais stones, Isle of Lewis)
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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Lily Fairbairn
Gondolin
Jul 21 2007, 3:01pm
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In several Hindu ceremonies I've attended recently, I've heard the priest chanting "mahat mahat" over and over again. By referrring to Mahatma Gandhi I deduced it meant "great" in Sanskrit. And there it is in your definition!
I have to admit that "Mickleburg" sounds like it was named by some wandering Rohirrim rather than an elf.
Thanks for your posts on the Sil, S/G. I've never gotten all the way through it either!
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Jul 21 2007, 9:09pm
Post #7 of 24
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And speaking of Boston, to answer your other question, I just called Houghton Mifflin headquarters, and their voicemail pronounces the first syllable to rhyme with "hoe" (as in garden).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Discuss The Children of Húrin in the Reading Room, June 11-October 14.
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 22 2007, 2:03am
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Actually, from what I've heard, that construction project should have been more appropriately named "Michel Shillings Dumped Down the Hole".
The ubiquitous answering machine - of course! Who better to know, than the company itself? Still, one can almost hear that aspirate "gh" at the end of that first syllable.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago."
(Avatar pic: The Calanais stones, Isle of Lewis)
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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Smeagirl/Girllum
Mithlond
Jul 22 2007, 1:45pm
Post #9 of 24
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Ditto. This is very interesting!
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Good point about the wandering Rohirrim -- that would make more sense.
"I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it." --Gandalf
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Smeagirl/Girllum
Mithlond
Jul 22 2007, 1:51pm
Post #10 of 24
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I never thought about the meaning of Michel Delving. Thanks!
Encyclopedia of Arda mentions the connection to Mickleburg too: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/micheldelving.html
OK, I'm not so upset by Mickleburg now. :-)
"I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it." --Gandalf
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a.s.
Doriath
Jul 22 2007, 2:56pm
Post #11 of 24
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the HMCO web site has a pronunciation
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guide right here for us
We must not be the first group to ever wonder how to pronounce Houghton!
Isn't the internet great? You can find answers to anything, and sometimes they're even true.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."
~~Mother Theresa
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SandWitch King
Nargothrond
Jul 22 2007, 11:47pm
Post #12 of 24
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I get hassled about this all the time
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I asked the Houghton rep a long while back and have pronounced it as directed since. Still, people correct me all the time. I don't bother to argue, I just keep saying it the way Houghton says it.
No wonder all writers want to direct: one still has to put up with a load of nonsense, but even if wearing two hats (writer and director), there is one under which one is not called a thief and then raped - David Mamet
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Jul 23 2007, 12:04pm
Post #13 of 24
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Map deprivation and raggedy looking?
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I'm always delighted when a book begins to show how well-loved it is. Mine are absolutely nasty! *high five* Well done! :D
As to avoiding a delay in your read to check out the maps... I found I avoided the maps the first couple of times, too. On the one hand, it's kinda nice to keep track of the activity in your imagination... and on the other hand, once you get used to the lay of the story, you can relate to the lay of the lay more.
Well Done! I love your reports of progress :D
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Jul 23 2007, 1:45pm
Post #14 of 24
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With my Texas accent even if I knew how to pronounce it properly I couldn't.
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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a.s.
Doriath
Jul 23 2007, 2:52pm
Post #15 of 24
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What I find most different about southern accents in my part of the American South is the tendency to go up in inflection at the end of sentences or phrases, even when it's not a question.
So we all would say "Hootin" Mifflin with our inflection rising on the Mifflin...
But I don't know about them there Texans.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."
~~Mother Theresa
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Jul 23 2007, 7:05pm
Post #16 of 24
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...with us Texans it often seems like the more syllables we can squeeze out of a word the better. Once I had a Northern girlfriend who just loved to hear me stretch out the word "red" into "ree-ay-ed". And like you said, it seems we Southerners prefer open syllables even if they're meant to be closed. That means something.
And yeah, I pronounce it "Hootin' Muffin".
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The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Aerlinn
Menegroth
Jul 23 2007, 7:10pm
Post #17 of 24
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Aerlinn's Law #17: "He who wants a rose must respect the thorn."
~~~~ Persian Proverb
"She who wants a Captain must respect the horn."
~~~B-Girl Proverb
1,038.08
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Smeagirl/Girllum
Mithlond
Jul 23 2007, 8:02pm
Post #18 of 24
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That sounds like a good name for a bakery. :-)
But darn it, now I'll think of that every time I try to pronounce it right, and start laughing, and people will think I'm nuts. Thanks a lot.
"I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it." --Gandalf
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Smeagirl/Girllum
Mithlond
Jul 23 2007, 8:07pm
Post #19 of 24
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That's the first time I've been congratulated for damaging something!
Usually I buy my books second-hand. This one was advertised as used, but looked brand new when I got it, so I'm noticing the damage more. If it looks interesting when I get to the end, I'll post a photo. Or teleport you a copy or whatever people are doing by then.
"I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it." --Gandalf
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 23 2007, 9:06pm
Post #20 of 24
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 There is a J-name! You have some skill with an index, Aerlinn!
(And/or your memory is better than my old, decrepit one - I've found myself using that "I'm over 50" excuse more than once... )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago."
(Avatar pic: The Calanais stones, Isle of Lewis)
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Jul 23 2007, 9:45pm
Post #21 of 24
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But darn it, now I'll think of that every time I try to pronounce it right, and start laughing, and people will think I'm nuts. Thanks a lot.
I mean, you don't want people thinking you're normal, right?
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Jul 24 2007, 11:51am
Post #22 of 24
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at the Computer Museum, in the early days of speech recognition. You had to answer questions, and one of the answers was "red". There was a southern family ahead of us, and the harder they tried to say "red" - reyad, ree-ayad, ree-ayahd - the worse it got! They never did manage to answer that question...
(As for Houghton, it's a common surname where I'm from in Northern England, so it never crossed my mind to wonder how it's pronounced. It's just Ho-ton. Always has been, always will be, in our neck of the woods .)
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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Alassëa Eruvande
Doriath
Jul 24 2007, 9:37pm
Post #24 of 24
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If you don't already own a copy, I'd recommend getting your hands on The Atlas of Middle Earth by Karen Wynn Fonstad. That way, you don't have to keep flipping to the back of the Sil. Well, you still have to keep flipping back for the name index, at least I did. I couldn't keep the maiar distinguished from the ainur and then all the different elves seperate. 
Anyway, The Atlas was a huge help to me when I read the Sil. It really helps when you are reading about the battles, too.
And suddenly the Ainur saw afar off a light, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame.
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