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Maiarmike
Grey Havens
Mar 3 2011, 8:39am
Post #1 of 45
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Interesting News on Sir Ian Holm...
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Found this article just now, and I don't know how to react to it, with excitement or trepidation? All I can say is, maybe they're saving him for later in the shoot, which is why they haven't told him anything?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...-starts-filming.html
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Patty
Immortal
Mar 3 2011, 9:40am
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Very interesting indeed, Maiarmike...
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although, like you, I'm not sure what to make of it. Fun to see that Sir Ian is fond of his LotR Bilbo role, though.
Permanent address: Into the West
Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!
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Owain
Tol Eressea
Mar 3 2011, 9:40am
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Yeah... I love Ian Holm... but Peter Jackson...
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Has a bit more on his plate now than re-assuring Ian Holm whether he has a part or not...
Considering the Christchurch earthquake, his perforated ulcer, firing of casting director for alleged racism, actors union strike and the subsequent possible loss/regaining of the films for New Zealand, losing his hand picked director (our beloved Guillermo) because of financial delays from distributor/right partner MGM, who went through a managed bankruptcy.
Middle Earth is New Zealand!
"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."
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Bound
Rohan
Mar 3 2011, 9:55am
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That Peter has alot on his plate - that is why movies have producers. They are supposed to be doing all this kinda of work !
the man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed
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Maiarmike
Grey Havens
Mar 3 2011, 10:00am
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It's kind of weird that they've been so active in recruiting extras and such, but haven't gotten back to the big named supporting actors yet, like Sir Ian. I suppose maybe they're still trying to schedule him along with other actors. I would think on such a big project that the casting directors and producers would be quite busy! Hopefully we hear something soon about all the supporting roles yet to be filled, otherwise spies taking pictures will end up stealing the thunder from Warner Bros. announcing it formally.
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Mar 3 2011, 10:01am
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no one is talking. I would say the latter is most likely.
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Pipe Dream
Gondor
Mar 3 2011, 10:33am
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with the delay, they are still hammering out the revised shooting schedule and don't really know what to tell him yet?
<<<<There is a long road yet>>>>
(This post was edited by Pipe Dream on Mar 3 2011, 10:34am)
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Mar 3 2011, 11:17am
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His notification has just been delayed
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because of Peter's surgery several weeks ago and the delay in principle photography starting. I don't take this as being a threat to his involvement. It would be nice if someone from the production (whomever is in charge of such contacts) to let him know what's going on; but I don't take this as anything to keep him from being our Bilbo once again :)
Maybe they've been in touch with his manager who hasn't passed on that information.
The plot thickens.
And... for the record... imho... there is no bad luck cursing this production. These years (now weeks) of challenges are part of trying to get something this massive underway. When they were preparing to start LotR, they also had challenges of getting backing/support for filming TWO segments... ended up getting money for THREE. Had to replace one of their lead players (Aragorn) AFTER principle photography started... we got Viggo! Were told they could never adapt Tolkien's work into film... d'uh!! Fought bad weather, constant re-writes all sorts of pitfalls during production... but they overcame all of it. These delays and problems are nothing new. It'll all work out and we'll end up with two fantastic films! Faith and patience is what's needed. Not doom and gloom.
 
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes
(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Mar 3 2011, 11:19am)
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sphdle1
Grey Havens
Mar 3 2011, 12:38pm
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I sure hope they can reconnect the communication link
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I would hate to find out that they dissed Holm and couldn't find a way to get him back in the movie as older Bilbo.
sphdle1
"You shall not pass!"
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Earl
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Mar 3 2011, 2:32pm
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Or something like that! You rock gramma 
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Welsh hero
Gondor
Mar 3 2011, 3:27pm
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I thought he was younger
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rings7
Rohan
Mar 3 2011, 4:17pm
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Sir Ian says he hasn't heard anything "for weeks" which i think it means that he's ALREADY heard something before. And if they're including Elijah Wood as Frodo, let's say for a beginning and then flashback, might as well show the older Bilbo with Frodo. I don't know. I'm just rambling.
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Patty
Immortal
Mar 3 2011, 4:19pm
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You may be rambling, but you make sense./
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Permanent address: Into the West
Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Mar 3 2011, 4:28pm
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This brings up the question of a London filming...maybe for both
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Sir. Ian and Sir. Christopher........I just wonder if both
are scheduled within the first weeks, I hope so!
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Ruijor
Rohan
Mar 3 2011, 4:41pm
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Sir Ian Holmīs footage should be short, probably only a scene or two with Frodo and thatīs it. I wonder if due to this short schedule he and Sir Christopher Lee will shoot their scenes in a London set; that would demand Elijah Wood to go to London as well...
The only relevant and worrying question is the longer they take to carve it in stone more chances are that some actors might not be avaiable and right now I canīt imagine this films without any of this two excelent british tespians in it...
(This post was edited by Ruijor on Mar 3 2011, 4:43pm)
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Maddie
The Shire
Mar 3 2011, 5:04pm
Post #16 of 45
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My first thought was the same....maybe Sir Ian will be filming in London.
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Groppe
The Shire
Mar 3 2011, 5:29pm
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I agree with and appreciate grammaboodawg's optimism on the matter; she is spot on. I'm tired of everyone talking about bad luck and all in reference to the Hobbit movies. If you look back at all the challenges etc. that befell the lotr trilogy, and the greatness that became of them, you should realize that it will all work out for good in the end!
As Sam said:
"But in the end it's only a passing thing this shadow, even darkness must pass. A new day will come, and when the sun shines it'll shine out the clearer."
I'm pumped for these movies! How about you?
(This post was edited by Groppe on Mar 3 2011, 5:32pm)
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sushiking
The Shire
Mar 3 2011, 6:01pm
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OMG what would be amazing if he gets the chance!
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I sure would love to see that!
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Donry
Tol Eressea
Mar 3 2011, 6:30pm
Post #19 of 45
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to see Ian Holm and Christopher Lee in some part in these movies.....technology would allow it, but will their health permit it? Here's to hoping so!
What's the matter, James? No glib remark? No pithy comeback?"
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Patty
Immortal
Mar 3 2011, 6:32pm
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This is just what I hope is in the cards./
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Permanent address: Into the West
Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!
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thesithempire
Rivendell
Mar 3 2011, 8:21pm
Post #21 of 45
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While I'm probably in the minority, particularly amongst those who hold the movie-trilogy to be sacred, but I'm not a fan of Ian Holm's portrayal of Bilbo, and am glad that that misfire has been rectified with the hiring of the authentic Bilbo in Martin Freeman.
This is not meant disrespectfully towards Ian Holm, who seems to be a nice man, and is a very good actor. I simply feel he was not the best choice for the role, much as I don't think Stuart Townsend would've been right for the role of Aragorn. That was thankfully rectified early on.
I hope Mr. Holm is able to move on with other roles and characters better suited to him.
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Ruijor
Rohan
Mar 3 2011, 10:51pm
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I think youīre a bit equivocated...
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The reason for Martin Freeman be in The Hobbit itīs due to the fact than Sir Ian Holm is too old for such a demanding role as a young Bilbo, not being replaced due to miscast consideration as you implied.
Whether he was great or not the question is heīs LOTR Bilbo Baggins so itīs good to maintain some continuity.
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thesithempire
Rivendell
Mar 3 2011, 11:00pm
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Certainly didn't mean to imply that the filmmakers believed him miscast. But I did. And I know I'm not alone in that opinion. (Of course, I also think Bernard Hill was miscast as Theoden. The book and my imagination supply a far older man.) Getting back to Bilbo, the fact is that they inadvertently miscast him for one very important reason: Despite his age, he still looked like a younger Hobbit. Gandalf was not being polite when he said "You haven't aged a day," a fact the filmmakers recognized when they created the flashback scene (in FOTR) when Bilbo picks up the ring. The only thing that's changed is his hair color. Iam Holm was simply older than the character should've looked (as Bernard Hill was younger than the character should've looked).
The reason for Martin Freeman be in The Hobbit itīs due to the fact than Sir Ian Holm is too old for such a demanding role as a young Bilbo, not being replaced due to miscast consideration as you implied.
Whether he was great or not the question is heīs LOTR Bilbo Baggins so itīs good to maintain some continuity.
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duats
Grey Havens
Mar 3 2011, 11:29pm
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Pretty much agree.
Bilbo was in 51 during The Hobbit - so he would have looked like a man in his thirties. Even with his skin pulled back in the Prologue, Holm looked far older than someone in their thirties. And since Bilbo was described as being unchanged in FoTR (due to the Ring), he still should have looked like a man in his thirties (which, again, Ian Holm did not).
Now, saying someone was miscast isn't the same thing as saying they didn't do a good job with what they had. I thought Ian Holm gave a very good performance, all things considered. But in terms of age, he was a good thirty/forty years older than what would have been ideal for the role. Just as Bernard Hill was a good ten/twenty years younger than what would have been ideal for Theoden.
Now, Ian Holm circa 1970. That would have been a different story.
And for those who argue that age doesn't matter, PJ certainly felt that it did. Hence the replacement of Townsend with Mortensen.
Besides, if PJ had cast a younger Bilbo for LoTR in the first place, then it's possible that he wouldn't have even needed to recast the role for The Hobbit.
(This post was edited by duats on Mar 3 2011, 11:33pm)
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thesithempire
Rivendell
Mar 3 2011, 11:50pm
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James Cosmo -- Holy crap, yes!
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You and I definitely think alike. Even outside of makeup, prosthetics, etc., James Cosmo is the perfect Theoden! He has the heft and ability to play a weakened, guilt-ridden king (the latter aspect accomplished by Hill), but, importantly, an older king who can become powerful again, and yet remain sympathetic. There's something about Theoden in the books that Tolkien conveys well, of an old man, shaking off the pains (physically and emotionally), to revive once again into a powerful leader who rides his army against an overwhelming, evil mass. To cite Bakshi again, I think that's one aspect he captured well.
Ah, Cosmo, missed opportunity!
As regards Bilbo, Ian Holm, wonderful actor, simply should not have been cast, especially as you noted, since they were forced to recast him because of the age issue. Hindsight is 20/20, I guess, but I'm surprised they didn't think that through. If it were up to me, I'd create a version of FOTR and ROTK with Freeman in the role. Movie-purists be damned! I'd give him greyer hair, and let him go to town. It won't happen b/c there's too many who think the trilogy is like this sacred thing (most of whom have never read the book, or who read it afterwards, and prefer the films). But there's no way, now that they have the perfect actor for the role, that I'd let that opportunity go by the wayside! I wouldn't take away the older version from the purists, but it'd be great to have that option for book fans, as well as those who are going to fall in love with Martin in the upcoming two films, and who'll want to see his Bilbo in the LOTR, not a different actor.
Pretty much agree.
Bilbo was in 51 during The Hobbit - so he would have looked like a man in his thirties. Even with his skin pulled back in the Prologue, Holm looked far older than someone in their thirties. And since Bilbo was described as being unchanged in FoTR (due to the Ring), he still should have looked like a man in his thirties (which, again, Ian Holm did not).
Now, saying someone was miscast isn't the same thing as saying they didn't do a good job with what they had. I thought Ian Holm gave a very good performance, all things considered. But in terms of age, he was a good thirty/forty years older than what would have been ideal for the role. Just as Bernard Hill was a good ten/twenty years younger than what would have been ideal for Theoden.
Now, Ian Holm circa 1970. That would have been a different story. And in my mind, James Cosmo would have been the perfect Theoden.
And for those who argue that age doesn't matter, PJ certainly felt that it did. Hence the replacement of Townsend with Mortensen.
Besides, if PJ had cast a younger Bilbo for LoTR in the first place, then it's possible that he wouldn't have even needed to recast the role for The Hobbit.
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