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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Of Saoirse Ronan... and Itaril
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News from Bree
spymaster@theonering.net

Jan 20 2011, 5:42am

Post #1 of 133 (3659 views)
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Of Saoirse Ronan... and Itaril Can't Post

Ever since a "casting call" for The Hobbit found its way on to the internet back in January 2010, fans have been wondering much concerning the role of the Elf-maiden (or alternately, Elf warrior-wench!) who'll supposedly go by the name of Itaril and fall in love with with a young Elf lord.

It wasn't long before fans began speculating the casting for the role and, subsequently, Saoirse Ronan got linked to it. But much fun as the speculation was (and is), neither the rumoured role nor the rumoured casting choice have gone down well with many fans. And whether or not the rumours had a ring of truth to them was anyone's guess.

Come January 2011 and the media has finally gotten to catching up with Saoirse Ronan and asking her directly concerning the possibility of her being cast in the upcoming films. From RTE.ie:
The Oscar-nominated Irish actress is strongly rumoured to be in talks to play the character Itaril in the films, but she did not reveal any further details at the launch of the IFTAs in Dublin yesterday.

When asked if she would like to play the role, she replied: "Yeah if I was asked, certainly."

Her father Paul said that it would be great if she landed the Hobbit part, but did not say if she had been asked.

He told journalists: "It would be something that would be wonderful if it happens. I don't think all of the cast members have been chosen or asked yet because it's going to be such a long project.

"It's going to take a long time. She worked with Peter on 'The Lovely Bones'. After a couple of weeks with working with Peter it's like being part of his family.

"It would be wonderful to see them all again and to work with them again."

As always, here's a friendly invitation to join the discussion and speculation on our message boards.

(This post was edited by Earl on Jan 20 2011, 11:17am)


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 20 2011, 11:26am

Post #2 of 133 (1178 views)
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Saoirse is waaaay too beautiful to play Itaril ;) [In reply to] Can't Post

I think she should play Luthien in a few years' time Cool



kareniel
Lorien

Jan 20 2011, 12:11pm

Post #3 of 133 (1138 views)
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She's perfect for the role. [In reply to] Can't Post

She is beautiful, but it's not the cheerleader/Miss America type of beauty. She looks a little exotic and otherworldly ala Liv Tyler. I think the elf men should exhibit the same brand of handsomeness -- not the square-jawed, grinning, hunk-style, but an attractiveness with a hint of mystery behind it. At least that's how the elves look in the Middle-earth in my mind.


Timdalf
Rivendell


Jan 20 2011, 12:18pm

Post #4 of 133 (1239 views)
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Disaster [In reply to] Can't Post

awaits if they start messing with the plot line of The Hobbit and try to force a romance story into the middle of it. We don't need an Itaril, we don't want an Itaril, we won't tolerate an Itaril... Stick to the story as JRRT intended it. PJ and Co got into all sorts of trouble by "revising" the character of Faramir... I don't see why these movie people always think a film has to have a sappy love story in it. Booo! They cut out things from LotR and overdid the battle scenes trying, they said!, to keep to the main story line. Well, they need to do that here too! KEEP TO THE BOOK... Focus, people, focus! Frown

Timothy Fisher alias "Timdalf"

"... The Word of God Himself, He, indeed, assumed humanity that we might become as God..." St. Athanasius of Alexandria "On the Incarnation"

The fear of the end is the source of all lovelessness. Richard Wagner's Letters

Saruman: Can we not have peace, you and I?
King Theoden: We shall have peace. (pause) When you answer for the burning of the Westfold. And the children that lie dead there. We shall have peace when the lives of the soldiers whose bodies were hewn even as they lay dead against the Hornburg are avenged. When you hang from a gibbet for the sport of your own crows, we shall have peace. Tolkien - "The Return of the King"

Frodo: It is a pity Bilbo did not kill Gollum when he had the chance.
Gandalf: Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? (Frodo frowns.) Do not be so eager to deal out death in judgment, even the very wise cannot see all ends.
Frodo: I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.
Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given us. There are other forces at work in the world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Tolkien - "The Fellowship of the Ring"


Bran
Lorien


Jan 20 2011, 12:23pm

Post #5 of 133 (1182 views)
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I am not aware of the background [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
awaits if they start messing with the plot line of The Hobbit and try to force a romance story into the middle of it. We don't need an Itaril, we don't want an Itaril, we won't tolerate an Itaril... Stick to the story as JRRT intended it. PJ and Co got into all sorts of trouble by "revising" the character of Faramir... I don't see why these movie people always think a film has to have a sappy love story in it. Booo! They cut out things from LotR and overdid the battle scenes trying, they said!, to keep to the main story line. Well, they need to do that here too! KEEP TO THE BOOK... Focus, people, focus! Frown



to this story, but I agree. There will be genuine Tolkien writing left out of these films, and non-Tolkien stories added instead?

No thanks. No.

In case anyone didn't get that, I'm dead against this sort of thing.

No.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 20 2011, 12:59pm

Post #6 of 133 (1194 views)
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As much as I dislike the Itaril concept [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think it's fair to demand that PJ follows the book that I love so dearly, The Hobbit, frame-by-frame, sentence by sentence. It usually doesn't work on film.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Jan 20 2011, 1:06pm

Post #7 of 133 (1123 views)
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I'm not seeing the problem [In reply to] Can't Post

I find it hard to believe that they are going to leave out content from the book - which can be read in its entirety on a single lazy afternoon - in a pair of films that will probably run a total of 6 hours

I always assumed they will need to create new content in order to fill the 2 films. Elves are in The Hobbit, probably female ones (gasp!), so I can't see anything wrong with creating a speaking role for one of them. This is literally the least controversial change Jackson can make, surely?

* crunch *


Bran
Lorien


Jan 20 2011, 1:09pm

Post #8 of 133 (1048 views)
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I agree, Macfalk [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I don't think it's fair to demand that PJ follows the book that I love so dearly, The Hobbit, frame-by-frame, sentence by sentence. It usually doesn't work on film.



I'm happy to accept that changes will have to be made, words changed, even slight alterations to character. I'm happy for them to alter TH by adding in Dol Guldur. I'm even not that bothered that certain ccharacters were left out, Bombadil and Glorfindel - they didn't say they didn't exist.

What I am NOT happy about is where they start adding new characters and new storylines that Tolkien didn't write. These are entirely alien to me.

Aragorn being dragged off a cliff by a Warg, for example.

No need. No need to do it at all, imo.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Bran
Lorien


Jan 20 2011, 1:12pm

Post #9 of 133 (1051 views)
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I'm Sorry CB [In reply to] Can't Post

but I didn't say they will leave anything out of the book. I said leave out Tolkien writing, and by that I mean genuine Tolkien writing that we know took place at or around the same time as TH. Far better, IMO, to include that material, where allowable, than to write new stuff.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


chrismortega
Bree


Jan 20 2011, 1:13pm

Post #10 of 133 (1036 views)
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for real dude [In reply to] Can't Post

Has anyone here seen a few films called Lord of the Rings, directed by Peter Jackson? I thought they were pretty good, so did a few million other people. Let Peter do what he does best. I trust him.

On another note, when did that girl from the lovely bones get hot, and how big of a creeper do I feel like right now? She does look elfish. I'd like to see her in the film.

"NEVER TRUST AN ELF!"


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 20 2011, 1:14pm

Post #11 of 133 (1068 views)
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Aragorn off the cliff [In reply to] Can't Post

I think PJ & co wanted a way for Aragorn finding the Uruk army by himself, upping the tension by riding back and saying

"They will be here by nightfall"

"Let them come!"



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Bran
Lorien


Jan 20 2011, 1:21pm

Post #12 of 133 (1020 views)
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Yes, I realise that [In reply to] Can't Post

He wanted a 'Zulu' moment. Didn't work for me, it just really grated. The falseness of it spoiled the build up for me.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Bound
Rohan


Jan 20 2011, 2:06pm

Post #13 of 133 (994 views)
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Careful with the "We" 's [In reply to] Can't Post

You presume to talk for everyone when in fact you speak for yourself.

I'm not suggesting others don't feel the same as you. I'm not saying I myself disagree (but I do Smile)

This next bit isn't direct at you specifically Timdalf :

PJ and Co didn't get into any trouble for revising the character of Faramir - nor should they have. Some fans didn't like their choices and others did.

Here's my take on this issue that seems to be coming up more often these days. People may not like the changes that are made to the books. However its Peter and Co's right to do that. They are telling "their" story based on a book. I personally don't think a page for page adapation of Tolkien's books would ever work. Sure you'd please some hardcore fans but as a movie it would never work. It would be both boring and tedious. Books and Movies are two VERY different mediums.

I don't love all that Jackson did with the LOTR - but then nearly no 12 hour movie could be perfect. For the most part his version were great and made me forgive the less than good bits.

Let him do his job - that's his right. He's earned it. If you don't like it - cool. Don't watch the movies. The books are still there - untouched, still great reads.


Let him do what he wants. that's his job.

the man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


Bran
Lorien


Jan 20 2011, 2:26pm

Post #14 of 133 (916 views)
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Nobody can stop him doing his job [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
You presume to talk for everyone when in fact you speak for yourself.

I'm not suggesting others don't feel the same as you. I'm not saying I myself disagree (but I do Smile)

This next bit isn't direct at you specifically Timdalf :

PJ and Co didn't get into any trouble for revising the character of Faramir - nor should they have. Some fans didn't like their choices and others did.

Here's my take on this issue that seems to be coming up more often these days. People may not like the changes that are made to the books. However its Peter and Co's right to do that. They are telling "their" story based on a book. I personally don't think a page for page adapation of Tolkien's books would ever work. Sure you'd please some hardcore fans but as a movie it would never work. It would be both boring and tedious. Books and Movies are two VERY different mediums.

I don't love all that Jackson did with the LOTR - but then nearly no 12 hour movie could be perfect. For the most part his version were great and made me forgive the less than good bits.

Let him do his job - that's his right. He's earned it. If you don't like it - cool. Don't watch the movies. The books are still there - untouched, still great reads.


Let him do what he wants. that's his job.



He, of course, has every right to do his job.

And those of us who don't like aspects of what he did, or may do, are exercising our right to say we don't like it.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Wraith Buster
Gondor


Jan 20 2011, 2:44pm

Post #15 of 133 (878 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

If they want to put a female elf worrier in TH she would be perfect. I know that some changes to the book are going to happen. I just hope she isn't a love intrest for Bilbo. Okay men and elves but not hobbits and elves. I trust that PJ will do awesome though!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bustin' makes me feel good!!

I do believe if our honorable friend continues to scrape the bottom of the barrel for objections he is in danger of getting splinters under his fingernails.

Have you heard nothing of the stubbornness of dwarves and their elf
instigators?

The dark spybot will not avail you, flame of Ubuntu!



SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 20 2011, 2:57pm

Post #16 of 133 (952 views)
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Uh, never? [In reply to] Can't Post

Those bones, while lovely, are far too young to be described that way. If a romantic female lead is being sought, someone who has seen a few more winters would be preferable.

And how do we know this Elf-maiden will be paired with another Elf? As long as they are taking liberties, seems to me just as likely it could be Fili (Aiden Turner), or perhaps even Thorin (Armitage) himself.

"Let the wild rumpus begin!"


RosieLass
Valinor


Jan 20 2011, 4:08pm

Post #17 of 133 (909 views)
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Yeah, we saw them. [In reply to] Can't Post

And some of us think they would have been a whole lot better if PJ had stuck closer to the book and hadn't been quite so...creative.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Eryn
Bree


Jan 20 2011, 4:08pm

Post #18 of 133 (881 views)
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[i]Slight[/i] changes to the plot welcome... as long as they don't eclipse the main plotlines [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Has anyone here seen a few films called Lord of the Rings, directed by Peter Jackson? I thought they were pretty good, so did a few million other people. Let Peter do what he does best. I trust him.

Laugh I do very much agree- and I do trust PJ!! I just hope he doesn't think he needs to make any massive changes, like, for example, they did with the Narnia series- the first one was so so good (and yes, not completely faithful to the books, but still brilliant in their own right), and then they suddenly decided they needed to introduce more and more action, and a love interest.... Really not necessary. So similarly, although I do trust PJ, I do hope and pray that this love story does not take too much of a front seat, and invade in on the important stuff that does actually happen in the book.

But yes- the LOTR trilogy wasn't exactly ruined by slight changes to the books, was it? Smile - I could list quite a few additions or omissions, but I don't think that's necessary. The point is- the films are not the spitting image of the books... But they are awesome!!!
Saoirse would be an awesome elf, I think. And I wouldn't be too strongly opposed to an elf-maiden-warrior. Male elves were excellent healers as well as warriors, and similarly I expect female elves were able to be strong etc as well as gentle and caring.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 20 2011, 4:08pm

Post #19 of 133 (962 views)
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Why the idea of a young female Elf Warrior in Thranduil's Woodland Realm could work. [In reply to] Can't Post

i would say that the idea of a young female Elf Warrior in Thranduil's Woodland Realm is no worse an intrusion into the Hobbit b than the 99% invented White Council / Dol Gulder side adventure, that we know is being added.

Here follows the reasons I take this stand.

We know that the version of the Hobbit that is being produced is not going to be limited to the book as originally published. It is going to contain information brought into it from the appendices of the Lord of the Rings (book) as well as some kind of framing story that involves the character Frodo to attach these movies firmly to the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings film Trilogy.
One of the most discussed known additions to the plot of the Hobbit movies is the White Council / Dol Gulder side adventure that is mentioned briefly in The Hobbit and somewhat outlined in the appendices of the Lord of the Rings and other Tolkien sources. A good deal of what was supposed to have happened while Gandalf is out of the story is left to the imagination or fraught with ambiguity and contradictory evidence left by the author. If the movie makers are going to add this plot line they will have to make decisions and invent content to put a version on the screen. Hopefully the version they produce will be there to support the main plot which involves Bilbo Baggins and thirteen Dwarves on a quest to regain the treasure of the Dwarves that was lost years before when Smaug the Golden Dragon invaded and usurped the Dwarves Kingdom under the Mountain of Erebor.
The Hobbit as a novel is written at the level of a "young adult adventure". It begins as a nearly classical fairytale and progresses toward a romantic fantasy. Only the main characters are fleshed out to any extent and secondary characters only to the extent absolutely necessary to the plot. Background characters to a large degree do not exist. This sparsity becomes problematic when the book is translated to the screen.
In The Lord of the Rings Peter & Company created a number of characters to ground the action and to make it seem more real and personal. These range from the Grumpy Hobbit in the Plad vest that appears near the start of The Fellowship of the Ring and again near the end of Return of the King. There is "Lurtz", the Uruk Hai commander,who is never named on screen but who has a little sub plot spun around his birth/death. There is a Rohan Mother and her children being forced from their home and fleeing desperately to end up at Helm's Deep. These are but a few of the background characters chosen and brought briefly to the front in the Trilogy. I would expect this method to be used by the director of the Hobbit movies.
Itaril the young Elf Warrior Wench (or what ever name might be chosen) is a rumored character that will purportedly be added to the Woodland Realm / Dwarf Prisoner sequence that occurs about halfway through The Hobbit (Book). She is suppose to be young and secretly pining for a young elf lord who does not know she exists. She is a member of Tharanduil's royal guard (or some such thing). Some how she becomes involved in the escape of the Dwarves & Bilbo from the Woodland Realm. This sketch could be played out in many different ways: some objectionable to most of the Tolkien fan base and others that might actually make the Hobbit a better set of movies.
So if the Elf lass is written in to support the action and the plot and not to dominate it it could be a good thing.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Eryn
Bree


Jan 20 2011, 4:12pm

Post #20 of 133 (862 views)
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Thank you... [In reply to] Can't Post

... for putting so eloquently what I was just trying to say! I totally agree with what you wrote.


Oiotri
Tol Eressea


Jan 20 2011, 4:22pm

Post #21 of 133 (859 views)
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I wouldn't go so far as to say "Disaster" [In reply to] Can't Post

The idea of an invented elf-maiden named Itaril makes me uncomfortable as to how her inclusion is going to change the story, but I'm not about to proclaim it a disaster. That being said, I see a lot more ways in which Itaril could ruin the movie than ways in which it could improve it. But there are ways in which it could work well, I'm sure, though I don't know exactly what they are or what's going through PJ's head. We shall see how it goes, after all, we don't even know if there is going to be a character named Itaril.

(I hope that was more or less coherent, I was having wording issues)


..The land of long-forgotten name:
......no man may ever anchor near;
..No steering star his hope may aim,
......for nether Night its marches drear,
..And waters wide no sail may tame,
......with shores encircled dark and sheer.

..O! Haven where my heart would be!
......the waves beat upon thy bar
..For ever echo endlessly,
......when longing leads thy thought afar


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 20 2011, 4:32pm

Post #22 of 133 (865 views)
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RosieLass [In reply to] Can't Post

I would agree that sticking to the source material is what I prefer too. It's a hard task adapting a book, and changes are needed to compress massive books of such sizes in less than 3 hours to make it work on screen.

I would very much like PJ to stick with The Hobbit book (as it's my favourite book), but I can live with changes. What I have never understood is when some people yell louder than loud that "PJ wanted to IMPROVE TOLKIEN! HOW DARE HE!" like if it would be the worst offense that could ever be made.

If PJ would not have try "improve" on Tolkien (I, for one, has never seen it as trying to improve on Tolkien, merely telling his own verision of the story), we would not have seen

A different Boromir (an enhanced Boromir, imo)

Lighting of the Beacons (the book makes more sense, but this scene is just amazing)

"Mordor, Gandalf, is it left or right? Left."

Gandalf's fall (I never really liked this in the book. The Fellowship didn't mourn Gandalf as good as in the movie. Plus, as Flagg said, I prefer movie-Balrog)

et cetra

Goes without saying that not all changes worked in most people's minds. Something that has been very bashed is the Army of the Dead, something I didn't like either.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

(This post was edited by macfalk on Jan 20 2011, 4:33pm)


Oiotri
Tol Eressea


Jan 20 2011, 4:38pm

Post #23 of 133 (833 views)
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While I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

that many of PJ's changes to LotR played out well on screen, for the most part when he decided to add a new sub-plot, it usually wasn't for the better (in my mind). Itaril sounds like a new sub-plot to me, so I'm wary of it.


..The land of long-forgotten name:
......no man may ever anchor near;
..No steering star his hope may aim,
......for nether Night its marches drear,
..And waters wide no sail may tame,
......with shores encircled dark and sheer.

..O! Haven where my heart would be!
......the waves beat upon thy bar
..For ever echo endlessly,
......when longing leads thy thought afar


RosieLass
Valinor


Jan 20 2011, 4:45pm

Post #24 of 133 (817 views)
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I'm still hoping... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that Itaril has been cast as Legolas' kid sister, and that Thranduil sends Legolas off to war so that he doesn't have to listen to their sibling squabbling anymore.

ITARIL: Daaaaad! Leggy keeps stuffing my dolls into barrels and sailing them down the river!
LEGOLAS: Well, make Itty stop painting my arrowheads with her pink fingernail polish!
THRANDUIL: That's it! You're both grounded for the next 600 years!!1!

I brought you into this world; I can take you out again. And it don't make no difference to me. I'll make another one that looks just like you.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Bran
Lorien


Jan 20 2011, 4:48pm

Post #25 of 133 (934 views)
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Totally disgree that the WC [In reply to] Can't Post

is 99% invented. Tolkien tells us when they met, he gives details on who was part of the council, what they discussed, how those discussions changed and even some of the actual words and events that took place in those meetings. We also know what the White council decided to do, when it was carried out, and the results of that.

It's extremely inaccurate to say that it is 99% invented.

One thing that is true. This new storyline is 100% invented.

Tolkien gives us 100's of characters and many many story lines.

Why invent new ones?

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi

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