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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Elijah Wood will be in 'The Hobbit'
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nobofthepony
Lorien


Jan 8 2011, 5:30am

Post #251 of 379 (21637 views)
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respectfully disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

"Reading him talk about Tolkien's work so enthusiastically makes me doubtful of that single statement he made in that interview several years ago, when he said that he hated hairy feet or something like that. To be honest, I'd be even more inclined to trust del Toro with Tolkien's work than I would be to trust Jackson."

That's quite a statement. I think Peter Jackson went out of his way to let Tolkien be Tolkien. I guess we'll be playing the "what if" game for next two years..."Would GDT have been okay with _______________?" I guess I'm in the camp that was okay with GDT directing the Hobbit as long as Jackson was producing and screenwriting, but I wouldn't have been ok with GDT apart from Jackson, mainly for continiuity, but also because of their differences as directors. Jackson's films are bombastic and over-the-top. Jackson doesn't do subtle. I get the sense that he is a kid in a candy store and there's a sense of inbridled joy in the creating. The LOTR screenplays were surprisingly good-natured (from the director of Meet the Feebles it was a shock to me at least!) GDT excels also at what he does, but I don't know that I would implicitly trust him with the Hobbit. During the course of his posts here, on more than a few times, he would make remarks about what he believed was in the story that seemed gnostic and very different from anything Tolkien the Catholic would have intended. Even that statement about Plato's cave...it's just out of left field...I doubt Tolkien was doing anything platonic w/ Middle Earth...Lewis had more Plato than Tolkien and Tolkien loathed spiritual allegorizing. I didn't get the sense that del Toro got that. His posts were always laced with spiritual meanings that I didn't see as being compatible with Catholic Tolkien. With Jackson, I get the sense that he couldn't care less about overloading the films with spiritual meanings and would rather just tell a damn good story. Obviously they probably had their differences...but I'm not going to nitpick PJ's decisions because in my mind he's already proved himself. But then again, if we don't nitpick, this will be a dull 2 years >:-)

As far as GDT in Middle Earth, after The Hobbit, I would give him Children of Hurin and tell him to go wild. His natural sensibilities would be perfect for the story and he wouldn't have to worry about continuity because it takes place in a different age. I think he would be better than PJ at capturing Beleriand!


nobofthepony
Lorien


Jan 8 2011, 5:44am

Post #252 of 379 (21421 views)
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Gandalf to Balrog: "Why do I get the feeling you will be the death of me?"// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Sunflower
Valinor

Jan 8 2011, 6:07am

Post #253 of 379 (24116 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

Peter has not always "been content to "let Tolkien be Tolkien" (shall I count the ways? Oh for that epic list by the Second Ager Angalacon The Black! And let others count the ways, ad nauseum!) . And I don't think he is prepared to be as faithful to Tolkien this time around either. Example that we know of already: Reports of Guillermo's reaction to re-reading the end of TH where Bilbo is unconscious through the Battle of Five Armies: he said in effect that that was such a fantastic, un-novel plotline, and "we musthave this in the film!"

Quick poll: how many of y'all beleive that Peter Jackson is going to have Bilbo waking up to find the Battle of Five Armies all over and he played no active part in it? Or is Peter going to go all Hollywood and have Bilbo take some Heroic Stand? Can you see Warner Brothers allowing that? The Big Action Scene and Our Hero gets no Money Shots?

And welcome to TORN!


(This post was edited by Sunflower on Jan 8 2011, 6:09am)


Sunflower
Valinor

Jan 8 2011, 6:16am

Post #254 of 379 (23594 views)
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If so, [In reply to] Can't Post

I find it curious that it wasn't corrected in the EE. A really striking bit of laziness on Peter and Co's part. And quite curious. Thanks for clearing that up!


Sunflower
Valinor

Jan 8 2011, 6:19am

Post #255 of 379 (21667 views)
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Thanks for being understanding [In reply to] Can't Post

I had a friend from LA once, and she told me a bit about the town. I've never been to yr part of the woods and hope to go someday! I'd confess I'd love to do the whole Hollywood Tourist thing (even though I know that many historical landmarks are in parts of toen that now are no longer so great, sadly.)

And good luck! I remember you and yr art. I think you'll go far.


The Party Tree
Lorien


Jan 8 2011, 6:31am

Post #256 of 379 (22101 views)
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I'm afraid PJ will turn him into at least a bit of an "action-hobbit", sadly.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


The Party Tree
Lorien


Jan 8 2011, 6:33am

Post #257 of 379 (22452 views)
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The couldn't have easily changed it for the EE, though. [In reply to] Can't Post

That would have involved changing the last shot of the movie. And it is beautiful and wonderful, and while I watch the movie I don't really think about how upset the change makes me.


nobofthepony
Lorien


Jan 8 2011, 6:36am

Post #258 of 379 (25124 views)
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really! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, Jackson made changes to the books...I remember HATING the decision to cut Saruman's death out of ROTK and (still think) the scouring of the Shire was vital to the story. I'm not arguing about changes...no matter the director, millions of changes will have to be made in a film adaptation. The question is...which changes will make the film better and more engaging while allowing the source material to shine? I guess the majority of PJ's changes didn't bug me. Although I remember posting here the day I found out Saruman would be cut from ROTK and overreacting...saying PJ just kissed the chance of getting an oscar goodbye. (Umm...guess I was wrong..;))

It's probably just me but GDT just rubbed me the wrong way. He always had a little spiritual lesson for us all. Hey, I love Pan's Labyrinth but the gnostic little fairy tale it opens with is about as un-Tolkien as it gets and GDT seems very earnest about his beliefs. Which is fine but I guess I never quite trusted him to keep them out of the Hobbit. So PJ made changes but he seemed to always find ways to get some of Tolkien's great lines in the film..even if another character said them. I guess I never trusted GDT not to replace Tolkien's lines with his own pithy spiritual comments. "Remember Bilbo, this world is an illusion, only spirit matters." I guess I would be less irked at Bilbo slaying orcs in battle than Gandalf espousing neo-platonist philosophy.

Maybe it's just because I've just sat through Dawn Treader, where some mediocre screenwriters tried to "improve" Lewis. Having cheesy "Faith and Family" lines like "We have nothing if not belief." And "sometimes you just have to believe in these things." Blech. Lewis would stab his own hand before he let it write any tripe like that. Still bitter from that experience, I'd trust PJ to make the changes that have to be made, keep the heart of things and not try to slip in his own viewpoint as much as GDT would.


nobofthepony
Lorien


Jan 8 2011, 6:47am

Post #259 of 379 (21093 views)
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is it that much of a stretch?? [In reply to] Can't Post

We'll get plenty of "action-hobbit" with the spiders in Mirkwood...by this time in the story is it really THAT much out of character? In the book, wasn't it told from Bilbo's POV? When he woke up the battle was pretty much over. You know that wouldn't fly in a big-budget adaptation...the ONE huge battle in the book goes unseen? I doubt PJ will have Bilbo on a white horse leading the army of men. He'll probably just slip on the ring and comically pick off orcs. Maybe he'll save a dwarf's life or something. By this point in the book it wouldn't be out of character at all.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 8 2011, 6:48am

Post #260 of 379 (20415 views)
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A couple of questions: [In reply to] Can't Post

Just what do you refer to in your use of the term gnostic?

And to what do you refer in noting GdT's "
little spiritual lesson"? Please elaborate.



Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 8 2011, 6:53am

Post #261 of 379 (22089 views)
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I certainly hope not. [In reply to] Can't Post

They should at least retire to the Green Dragon for a few rounds and a dance.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


nobofthepony
Lorien


Jan 8 2011, 7:02am

Post #262 of 379 (20751 views)
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... [In reply to] Can't Post

Gnostic = neo-platonist...material world an illusion, spirit is real. Lewis goes there with his "shadowlands" analogy and in the last Narnia book...somewhat. I've never seen Tolkien go there, and he sneered at any attempt to "spiritualize" his stories. There are many variations on gnosticism but they all seem to hold esoteric knowledge above sensory experience.

As for GDT's little spiritual lessons - how do I do a search of his posts..? I'l dig them up and give you examples if you want. In the quote above, he almost does with his Plato's cave analogy...i.e. Tolkien must go OUTSIDE "Plato's cave" and construct his world. If you know Plato's cave and what it refers to, baiscally he is saying that Tolkien must travel beyond the illusion of his senses and construct Middle Earth. That's GDT's point of view, but I don't share it. I don't particularly want to go dig up old posts but I remember wincing a lot reading his posts because of these spiritual viewpoints he presents as "just so."


Bran
Lorien

Jan 8 2011, 9:31am

Post #263 of 379 (20986 views)
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Balin's tomb [In reply to] Can't Post

The fact that only Balin's tomb was shown in the LOTR films is, for me, one of the greatest hints for the need for some 'bridging work' to be done in these new films. If the story of the Hobbit is stuck to rigidly, we see a major character from the first two films ending happily then suddely turning up dead in the third film, in a different location hundreds of miles away with no explanation. I don't think Jackson et al will do that.

Some 'filling in' of the time period between the end of the Hobbit and FOTR is inevitable, I feel. I'm fairly certain that's where the Drogo stuff fits, and would not be surprised to see other stuff there as well as the Balin stuff.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Bound
Rohan


Jan 8 2011, 10:11am

Post #264 of 379 (20917 views)
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Best example... [In reply to] Can't Post

Of Peter's techniques being over used is in King Kong. Where Jack Black tells Adrian Brody the name of the Island they are heading to... that scene is so over the top I cringe and laugh at the same time...

the man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


flying fish
Bree

Jan 8 2011, 10:12am

Post #265 of 379 (20328 views)
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Why not run with the book version? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have no idea which post to reply to, so I've picked one at random.

I don't see why a pre-LOTR events sequence including Frodo at the beginning of TH couldn't be made to fit. In the book, Bilbo tells Frodo the true story of the ring soon after he arrives at Bag End, as Frodo tells Gandalf in "A Long-Expected Party". The Red Book is partly written at the time of LOTR because Merry has read about the ring prior to Frodo's flight.


For continuity in the movie-verse one could have it that as Frodo and Bilbo are planning the said Party, Bilbo sits Frodo down, pulls out the ring and says words to the effect of "It's time you knew the truth".... cue story. This would also then set up Frodo and Gandalf's opening scene in Fellowship, where Frodo comments that Bilbo is up to something, and that Gandalf knows about it. An idea that Gandalf then relays back to Bilbo. Okay, so everyone's 10yrs older, but it's not impossible.


Bound
Rohan


Jan 8 2011, 10:19am

Post #266 of 379 (22793 views)
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UPDATE [In reply to] Can't Post

UPDATE: Less than 24 hours after Deadline suggested that Elijah Wood would be returning, ComingSoon.net has received confirmation from the actor's reps that Wood will indeed be returning and that he's confirmed to star in the film. They've also informed us that Wood and comedian Eddie Izzard will be starring in the SKY TV mini-series based on Robert Louis Stevenson's literary classic "Treasure Island," playing Ben Gunn. It will be directed by Steve Barron, who directed the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as well as some of the classic music videos of the '80s including "Video Killed the Radio Star."

Earlier, TheOneRing.net suggested that Wood, at least, is a near certainty and offered some spoilers as to how his appearance is planned to play out, which you can read about by clicking here.
Read more: UPDATE: Elijah Wood Confirmed for The Hobbit - ComingSoon.net http://www.comingsoon.net/...=73066#ixzz1ARCdMtcP

the man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 8 2011, 10:32am

Post #267 of 379 (21843 views)
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The bridge film is dead. [In reply to] Can't Post

Now we are going to set a Lord of the Rings stage on which to play out the story of The Hobbit. If the wrapper gets too big the story at the center will be diminished. I really want the Hobbit's heart and soul. The wrapper is just gloss. It is nice but it does not have to be there. The Hobbit is enough.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 8 2011, 10:36am

Post #268 of 379 (22522 views)
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Guillermo's tentacles are only an ugly rumor. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 8 2011, 10:42am

Post #269 of 379 (22183 views)
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Now we know who is replacing Bard for the killing of Smaug! [In reply to] Can't Post

I just don't know how they are going to work out the time line, but I am sure they will have thought of something. Also if all else fails they can always ignore the discrepancy. Evil

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Bran
Lorien

Jan 8 2011, 10:56am

Post #270 of 379 (21268 views)
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I know the bridge film is dead [In reply to] Can't Post

But there are still stories that need to be bridged. Just because we are not getting a 3 hour film on the time between TH and FOTR, does not mean we will be getting nothing.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 8 2011, 11:05am

Post #271 of 379 (20883 views)
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I did not say that such events would not be drug in. [In reply to] Can't Post

I said that they are not necessary. I also said that the more unnecessary events that get drug in the more "The Hobbit" is diminished. The Hobbit is not a chapter in the Lord of the Rings. To force it to become one misses entirely what the book is.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Bran
Lorien

Jan 8 2011, 11:13am

Post #272 of 379 (21310 views)
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Balin [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you think the story of Balin is unneccessary (see my point above)?

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 8 2011, 11:25am

Post #273 of 379 (20793 views)
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Bridge film is dead, but [In reply to] Can't Post

The bridge-material is somewhat (?) alive. If you would believe the reddit chap, we have expanded Gollum material and that kind of stuff. Like other Im hoping for some dwarf-bridging (like backstory on Moria)



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 8 2011, 11:46am

Post #274 of 379 (38715 views)
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The telling of the failed effort to colonize Moria by Balin & company [In reply to] Can't Post

is not necessary for the telling of The Hobbit. If it had been I am sure the Professor would have included it. The existance of Aragorn in the guise of Estel at Rivendel is not necessary to the telling of the Hobbit. Even the action of the White Wizards against the Necromancer does not need to be elaborated to tell the story of the Hobbit. Any and all of these things may be included in the Hobbit movies but they will not add to the story that Tolkien wrote and published as the Hobbit. However the additions may serve other ends that some (but not all) might deem desirable.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


FarFromHome
Valinor


Jan 8 2011, 11:48am

Post #275 of 379 (24524 views)
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It seems like a deliberate change to me [In reply to] Can't Post

Sam never moves into Bag End in the movie, perhaps because in the few scenes they had to work with, they wanted to show Frodo alone and withdrawn ("How do you pick up the threads of an old life?"), wandering around in that empty, echoing, unnaturally tidy Bag End.

I figure we're meant to imagine that the Sackville-Bagginses inherit Bag End after Frodo leaves, and that Sam never gave up his simple life as a gardener or his humble hobbit-hole. There's a certain bitter-sweetness to that, really - different from Tolkien's imagined rise in social status for Sam and family, but then Sam never takes over from Frodo as the "true hero" of the story in the film as he does in the book. And the social status thing is much less important in the films anyway - Sam doesn't need a big imposing home to show he's grown in stature, I think it's that moment when he leaves the other hobbits and goes up to make his move on Rosie that tells us he's not the shy, retiring hobbit he used to be!

Tongue

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings


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