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News from Bree
spymaster@theonering.net
Dec 8 2010, 3:45pm
Post #1 of 57
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To Be Hot or Not? That is the Dwarf Question
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The “Hobbit” cast is looking good. Really good. Oooooooh yeah, realllllly good.
 Maybe too good?
When rumors began to swirl almost immediately after "Return of the King" left the theaters that a "Hobbit" film was inevitable, I made a prediction: There is no way they can sell a film with 13 Gimli-faced dwarves.
"Mark my words," I grumbled, "you are going to see HOT DWARVES" in this movie. Think of the fan girls!!!"
And it seems I may be right.
When you look at the success of the "Lord of the Rings" movies, a good portion of it can definitely be attributed to die-hard Tolkien fans who unreservedly embraced Peter Jackson's vision.
But an even more significant part of the audience was made up of people - let's face it, women - who really liked the eye-candy. From Legolas to Aragorn to the adorable hobbits to the nameless elf who became an internet sensation: Figwit.
And let's not forget Boromir, Faramir and Eomer fans.
But... not too many Gimli fans, are there? You won't find a lot of Gimli websites or fan-fiction out there. There's just not any 'hotness' quotient in our short lumpy bearded friend.
Sooooooooo... let's take a close look at "The Hobbit," shall we?
 The primary characters in the book are... dwarves. A baker's dozen of short, lumpy, bearded dwarves.
Sure, there's Bilbo. And yes, Beorn and Bard have promise. But the ratio of Hot to Not isn't great.
Now, there were loads of issues and drama that came with getting the film off the ground. It seemed as if it would never happen. But one of the key things the project had to recommend it was the insane success of the LOTR trilogy... which just had to guarantee similar audience appeal for "The Hobbit." Right?
Except for those pesky dwarves.
If you're a Hollywood studio honcho and are salivating at the chance to take a ride on the Tolkien juggernaut, I'll bet you and your marketing and merchandising teams are taking a look at the character list and thinking...
"We need hot dwarves."
"Lose the beards, lose the lumps. Hot dwarves, the hotter the better. We'll get a wholesome, 'aw-shucks' Bilbo, some bad-boy sexy Men, and then AS MANY HOT ACTORS WE CAN FIND for the Dwarves."
And so they did. One after another, each sexier than the last.
Here's where the Tolkien purist in me has a heart attack. SEE?? I TOLD YOU!!! HOT DWARVES? HOT DWARVES?!?!?
This is wrong, right? It was bad enough when Frodo, Pippin and Merry popped up in LOTR looking like slender, pink-cheeked cherubs (Sorry Sean, you really looked like Sam to me) instead of Tolkien's rotund, hairy-toed Weebles. Tolkien was doing somersaults in his grave.
 But dwarves? As short, lumpy and bearded as Gimli was, Tolkien intended him to look that way. And so, "NO! DOWN WITH HOT DWARVES," we say. It's an outrage! A travesty! Nooooooo...
Except... wellllll, Gimli was really short, lumpy and bearded. With Richard Armitage and Aidan Turner and James Nesbitt and Robert Kazinsky and Graham McTavish cast, I'm not sure I want any of them to look like real dwarves.
When it comes down to it, I'm a purist but I'm a red-blooded girl, too. Armitage alone would get me into the theater. But... put Richard in 'Gimli' prosthetics and, well, as superficial as it sounds that would not be as much fun. He's a wonderful actor; I'm a huge fan of "Spooks." But I want to SEE him and Aidan Turner and James Nesbitt and Robert Kazinsky and Graham McTavish, etc.
I reckon there are 10,000,000,000 other women in the world who would agree with me on this, and that, presumably, is what determines the film studio's choice. I know I'm contradicting myself. Writing this I came to realize I believe: 1) HOT DWARVES are wrong, and 2) hiring gorgeous men and not letting them BE HOT is also wrong.
Right? I mean, wrong? Hmmm.
Back me up on this, ladies! Hot or not - which should it be?
=======================
Maegwen is a long time senior staffer and sometimes satirist. She can often be found in Barliman's Chatroom and is our resident film grumpus.
(This post was edited by calisuri on Dec 8 2010, 9:02pm)
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The Party Tree
Menegroth
Dec 8 2010, 8:57pm
Post #2 of 57
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What are you talking about? ;D
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Gimli is adorable. And I certainly don't think it's impossible for a dwarf to be "hot".
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dave_lf
Mithlond
Dec 8 2010, 9:04pm
Post #3 of 57
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I made the same prediction, NfB, and I'm not at all surprised that it appears to be coming true. But, I will further predict that they find a way to make these guys looks like dwarves without making them ugly. Put them in the right costumes and set them next to other dwarves who are wearing all the prosthetics, and it will seem perfectly natural that some are less lumpy than others.
It's like they said WRT height in LotR; go all-out establishing that hobbits are short in the early part of the movie, and the audience won't even notice if you cheat a bit later.
(This post was edited by dave_lf on Dec 8 2010, 9:06pm)
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duats
Hithlum
Dec 8 2010, 9:17pm
Post #4 of 57
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While I hate the term "hot dwarf," I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility for there to be handsome dwarves. When I read LoTR, I don't picture the dwarves to have thick brows and short pudgy noses. I usually just picture them as men of a different size ratio. I particularly like how Alan Lee depicted Gimli in his illustrated edition of LoTR, which I would argue was ruggidly good-looking.
However, PJ kinda shut the door on "hot dwarves" when he went overboard with Gimli's appearance. JRD already had a dwarvish look to him, and I honestly think it was a crime to have 98% of his face covered in cartoony prosthetics. All JRD needed was the hair, the beard, and maybe a little nose prosthetic ala Ian McKellen.
Through Gimli, the Prologue, and the Council of Elrond scene, PJ has established the "dwarf look" for this movie-verse. And to have "hot dwarves" suddenly running around would be quite jarring. If PJ and Company didn't rely so heavily on prosthetics for the dwarves, and allowed the actor's real faces shine through, then this wouldn't even be an issue.
(This post was edited by duats on Dec 8 2010, 9:18pm)
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Eruonen
Gondolin
Dec 8 2010, 9:37pm
Post #5 of 57
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Hmm, interesting female fantasy...
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to be surrounded by a group of "hot" dwarves...oh my!
Well, that gives hope to men of shorter stature.
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Eruthurin
Ossiriand
Dec 8 2010, 9:38pm
Post #6 of 57
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Maegwen..... you rock!...... and totally agree with you!..... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! *thumbs up*
:: All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you ::
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Garfeimao
Nargothrond
Dec 8 2010, 9:38pm
Post #7 of 57
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But that's just me looking at the cast list. ;-)
When I saw Donato's artwork with the Dwarves, he had a wide variety of looks for the Dwarves and it works.
Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,
Garfeimao
The orange stripey One
Cruise to Middle-earth
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 8 2010, 10:45pm
Post #8 of 57
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that The Hobbit doesn’t spark a craze for long beards. Or beards of any length, really. If we start to see groups of male Tolkien fans growing long beards then I will silently curse the production designers who had that brilliant idea.
Although the thought of women wearing false Dwarf beards, a la Life of Brian, does amuse. 
While it seems a shame to have these actors, such fine specimens of manhood that they are, hidden behind beards and long hair, it's refreshing to think that these characters will be fleshed out through personality, charisma, their interactions with others and what they do on the quest - *not* because they have chiselled jaws and kissable, pouty lips. We might also be spared any Dori-luvvrs this time around…
(BTW those Photoshopped images are hilarious!)
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Crunchable Birdses
Nargothrond
Dec 8 2010, 10:49pm
Post #9 of 57
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I would happily sit through a film that's basically a sausage party of lumpy old Wilford Brimley clones with enormous beards, bungling goblins into a pulpy, gory mess with oversized axes and hammers for 6 hours straight. And then after that I'd probably watch The Hobbit.
* crunch *
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mendil
Ossiriand
Dec 8 2010, 10:49pm
Post #10 of 57
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I agree; also: did you ever see a movie called "300" ? ;} //
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"... But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song."
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Patty
Elvenhome
Dec 8 2010, 11:11pm
Post #11 of 57
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Maybe it's because I'm getting up there in years, but I don't need hot to keep me interested in a movie--especially not at the expense of the plot. Now with Bard they can have full reign. But Tolkien's description of his dwarves is pretty clear, and that doesn't mean "hot."
Permanent address: Into the West
Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!
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Kangi Ska
Gondolin
Dec 8 2010, 11:27pm
Post #12 of 57
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It all depends on how you look at it.
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Puddum
Lindon
Dec 8 2010, 11:51pm
Post #13 of 57
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It was bad enough when Frodo, Pippin and Merry popped up in LOTR looking like slender, pink-cheeked cherubs...
To be fair, Frodo, Pippin and Merry all came from Fallohide stock, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that they'd be taller and more slender than Sam.
Moreover, I think it's possible for some of the dwarves to be good looking and won't even be terribly distracting as long as they're not all studly. A sexy Dwarf brigade would be ridiculous. However, as long as some of the older characters have proper prosthetics, it will probably work.
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Kangi Ska
Gondolin
Dec 9 2010, 12:08am
Post #14 of 57
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Indeed us older folks rely on good prosthetic devices.//
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Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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The Party Tree
Menegroth
Dec 9 2010, 12:08am
Post #15 of 57
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Agreed! Beauty is subjective, haha.
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All this talk about it being impossible for dwarves to be hot seems a bit silly. It's not as if they're going to be prancing around shirtless or something. And beards aren't necessary the death knell of attractiveness, or anything (especially if they're nicely braided  ).
Of course, this is coming from someone who objects to the notion that Elijah Billy and Dom were significantly more attractive than Sean, so...perhaps my point is moot.
But I suppose it goes to show that everyone has different notions of what is "attractive"; maybe it's about time that fans of so-called "shprt, lumpy, hairy men" get their eye-candy!
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carnivorousrabbit
Lindon
Dec 9 2010, 12:44am
Post #16 of 57
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I say no. They do not need to be hot. Hot will make me run away from these movies. Then again being a lesbian probably makes my vote count less. I enjoy looking at someone (even a man) with a good looking body, buts thats out of artist appreciation for the body.
I think they should make lumpy and bearded and brawny dwarfs for all the bears out there who I know would love that.
And when in doubt, just still with the original design as good or bad. Dwarfs are made to be on the ugly side. You hot them up and they're not dwarfs, they're just midgets with a pretty face.
Many a FALSE STEP is made by STANDING STILL.
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Oiotári
Dor-Lomin
Dec 9 2010, 12:46am
Post #17 of 57
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well, accept for that age thing
The wide world is all about you:
you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out
You can only come to the morning through the shadows
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Kangi Ska
Gondolin
Dec 9 2010, 1:00am
Post #18 of 57
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**MODS** to the Sky and beyond
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"You hot them up and they're not dwarfs, they're just midgets with a pretty face."
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Patty
Elvenhome
Dec 9 2010, 2:10am
Post #19 of 57
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Okay. Even using a very broad definition of "hot"...
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and I mean broad, I just don't see Tolkien's dwarves as "hot", silly or not. They don't all have to look like Gimli, exactly, but somewhere in that broad category. We know they wear beards. Perhaps if the beards aren't long and braided they could fall in that realm for some gals, but not for this one. And I would have a problem with the perceived notion that females couldn't enjoy a movie unless it had hot dudes in it.
Permanent address: Into the West
Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!
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Patty
Elvenhome
Dec 9 2010, 2:12am
Post #20 of 57
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(can I mod up to the stratosphere...just someplace higher than Kangi?) 
Permanent address: Into the West
Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!
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The Party Tree
Menegroth
Dec 9 2010, 2:17am
Post #21 of 57
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I think, would be for them to go out of their way to make the dwarves hot in spite of their basic dwarvish characteristics. I don't think it's that hard to believe that a relatively handsome actor could still be handsome dressed as a dwarf.
And of course there don't need to be "hot" guys in a movie for women to enjoy it. :/
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Diann Landau
Registered User
Dec 9 2010, 2:25am
Post #22 of 57
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I, for one, preferred Gimli (and Theoden) to the "pretty-boys". Yes they were pleasing to the eye, could wield swords and ride horses. But Gimli was endearing to me somehow. Maybe it was the accent. Or all that Mithril! Anyway, to have beardless cute dwarves would take away from their purpose & place in Middle Earth history, IMHO. Perhaps Fili & Kili could have shorter beards, being younger- and could have some Pippin/Merry qualities about them. And I agree that in normal situations it would be a crime to 'hide" Richard under all that yak hair. But they ARE Dwarves!!!! You don't spend all that time in the Mines and stay good-looking!
I'm just sad that horses don't feature that promenently in "The Hobbit". I'll miss Brego & Snowmane.
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Patty
Elvenhome
Dec 9 2010, 2:32am
Post #23 of 57
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I agree with all you have said in your first post.
Permanent address: Into the West
Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!
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Diann Landau
Registered User
Dec 9 2010, 2:40am
Post #24 of 57
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Govannen, Patty!
Thanks. Someone has to stand up for authenticity and the "underdogs",right? There will be enough eye-candy I'm sure - especially if Legolas returns. And we don't know what Bard looks like.
I just can't wait these next 2 years. More Extended Edition dvd's and Complete Soundtracks,please!
Namarie.
Diann
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Kangi Ska
Gondolin
Dec 9 2010, 2:42am
Post #25 of 57
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Yah! Welcome to the whirl. Good to see you.//
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Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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