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News from Bree
spymaster@theonering.net
Nov 27 2010, 7:46am
Post #1 of 26
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Film.com: Comparisons between Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings
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 Many of us Ringers know the comparisons of The Lord of the Rings to Harry Potter are many. Well, Film.com has compiled a few for your reading pleasure. Enjoy!
Fantasy stories generally lift from the same mythological source bank. Actually, if you want to get super scholarly and esoteric about it, every story (especially the more sword-and-sorcery themed variety) is the same basic "hero's journey" archetype detailed by Joseph Campbell. But fantasy stories -- King Arthur, Lord of the Rings, The Chronicles of Narnia, Willow, Peter Pan, Conan the Barbarian -- build their world out of the same objects. You have magicians, dragons, unicorns, gnomes, and elves popping up to do battle, and they've made their way from medieval tapestries and texts to our modern movie screens.
[Read on]
(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 27 2010, 5:05pm)
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Nov 27 2010, 1:24pm
Post #2 of 26
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I love it when authors are obviously fans of their topic, and this Lady is an obvious fan. With point #11, I thought she was going to go with the petronis; but the deluminator was a good observation.
A couple of my own ideas are:
Gandalf's lit staff and the Harry's petronis
Hermoine is Harry's Sam.
Wormtongue vs Wormtail
Sting vs Wand
 
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes
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Flagg
Dor-Lomin
Nov 27 2010, 5:25pm
Post #3 of 26
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I think she could have gone further with point #8 – the sword of Gryffindor was originally owned by Godric Gryffindor, the ancient hero from whom Harry and all his friends descend (ideologically, of course). This sword was lost long ago, but is rediscovered by Harry during his adventures.
Narsil is the sword of Elendil, the ancient hero from whom Aragorn is directly descended (and many of his friends come from the same Númenorean stock). The sword was broken long ago, but is reforged in Fellowship of the Ring.
I like how she jokingly suggests in point #6 that the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings universes may be one and the same. I have to admit, it's not the first time the thought has crossed my mind. After all, Tolkien himself suggested that Alatar and Pallando may have been 'founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron'...
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Alassëa Eruvande
Doriath
Nov 27 2010, 6:49pm
Post #4 of 26
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Mr. Eruvande has a theory that the Blue Wizards eventually ended up at Hogwarts teaching wrestling, among other subjects. 
And suddenly the Tornadoes saw afar off a greenlight, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame;
and they knew that this was no vision only, but that PJ had made a new thing: The Hobbit, the Film that Is.
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The Party Tree
Menegroth
Nov 27 2010, 6:51pm
Post #5 of 26
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Hate to burst your bubble, but Rowling apparently doesn't like fantasy.
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http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1083935,00.html
At the bottom of the first page, she admits that she never finished The Lord of the Rings. She admitted that Harry Potter was more an attempt to "subvert" the fantasy genre.
Of course, when I heard that, the similarities between Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter made me a bit more uncomfortable. :/
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Doriath
Ossiriand
Nov 27 2010, 7:57pm
Post #6 of 26
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Don't get me wrong. I've enjoyed the Potters. However, they are like eating fast food and feeling guilty about it later. LOTR is the life giving meal that nourishes body and soul and sticks with you for life. It's hard to believe J.K. never finished reading LOTR because so much was obviously lifted from those books, watered down and pasted on as her own. In fact, I feel that all sword and sorcery type fantasy novels since Tolkien is in some way ripping him off and I've had a hard time reading any other similar series because it all kinda pales in comparison.
Gives it to us in glorious 2D!
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geordie
Dor-Lomin
Nov 27 2010, 8:20pm
Post #7 of 26
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We're told:
"Tolkien had a terrible fear of spiders, which is why The Hobbit and The Two Towers both feature some of the most disgusting and vile arachnids to attack on page or screen."
JRR didn't have a fear of spiders; it was his son Michael who had that fear. JRR said in a letter that spiders didn't bother him; he rescued those he found in the bath. (so do I)
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Nov 27 2010, 10:23pm
Post #8 of 26
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*snigger* No bubble to burst :)
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I was talking about the author of this article. I know Rowling has her own thoughts about LotR... poor dear ;)
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes
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Finduilas
Nevrast
Nov 28 2010, 12:18am
Post #10 of 26
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I always felt that HP was a ripoff from LOTR, but i always thought it was just me: now i know its not just me! Also, harry potter is so simple, in my opinion. i tried reading the seventh book after watching the sixth movie, and i just couldnt finish it: it just couldnt hold my interest ( im a very picky reader).
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Galadriel's ring
Ossiriand
Nov 28 2010, 10:40am
Post #11 of 26
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I'm sure that that picture of Elijah Wood,
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Is from RotK, not from FotR...
"Speak no evil of the Lady Galadriel! You know not what you say.There is in her and in this land, no evil, unlessa man bring it hither himself. Then let him beware!"
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the_argonath
Menegroth
Nov 28 2010, 7:09pm
Post #12 of 26
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~*Haudh-en-Ndengin the Elves named it, the Hill of Slain, and Haugh-en-Nirnaeth, the Hill of tears... the earth beneath which the swords of the Eldar and the Edain crumbled into rust*~
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the_argonath
Menegroth
Nov 28 2010, 7:15pm
Post #13 of 26
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... the sword of Gryffindor was more fashion over function. All the jewels and the delicate nature of this sword bugged me. I prefer the swords of LotR that were definately function over fashion (as I think is detailed in one of the EE DVDs), and I like the history attached to the sword of LotR. Of course, the swords in LotR have a bigger role to play and are actually used, as opposed to the sword of Gryffindor which is more... ceremonial...
~*Haudh-en-Ndengin the Elves named it, the Hill of Slain, and Haugh-en-Nirnaeth, the Hill of tears... the earth beneath which the swords of the Eldar and the Edain crumbled into rust*~
(This post was edited by the_argonath on Nov 28 2010, 7:16pm)
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Ruijor
Nargothrond
Nov 28 2010, 7:27pm
Post #14 of 26
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Who is Harry Potter? Is from Narnia or something? 
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Finduilas
Nevrast
Nov 29 2010, 1:59am
Post #15 of 26
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the main character from a children's book series about witchcraft and school.
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Arwen Skywalker
Menegroth
Nov 29 2010, 5:57am
Post #16 of 26
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Both Rowling and the article's author have a narrow view of fantasy
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That's surprising given that the Harry Potter books were intended to encourage open-mindedness. Rowling's justification for "subverting the genre" was that entering the wizarding world improved Harry's life because of the people he met, not because of magic itself. Sure, it's common in fairy tales for magic to be a free pass to happily ever after for good guys. But even in old fantasy stories like King Arthur, that wasn't the case. There are many other examples of magic (or its equivalent) complicating the lives of its users. Just look at the Jedi in Star Wars. I don't mean to criticize this approach (or HP for that matter). A story where magic solves every problem wouldn't be very interesting.
However, the article does have a slightly more legitimate argument that HP subverts the genre:
It's precisely Rowling's lack of sentimentality, her earthy, salty realness, her refusal to buy into the basic clichés of fantasy, that make her such a great fantasy writer. The genre tends to be deeply conservative--politically, culturally, psychologically. It looks backward to an idealized, romanticized, pseudofeudal world, where knights and ladies morris-dance to Greensleeves. Rowling's books aren't like that. They take place in the 1990s--not in some never-never Narnia but in modern-day Mugglish England, with cars, telephones and PlayStations. Rowling adapts an inherently conservative genre for her own progressive purposes.
That's true for a lot of classic fantasy stories. I've never read Narnia so I can't say much about it. I wouldn't call LOTR sentimental but it does include idealized characters such as Faramir and Aragorn (who was modeled after heroes in Norse sagas, as one TORN user said to me). So I would imagine that the author wouldn't be a fan of Tolkien's "unrealistic" characters. Politically, Tolkien wasn't a fan of democracy (or the totalitarianism of the Nazis for that matter). While some kings in Middle Earth were flawed, I can see how someone could say that Tolkien was romanticizing monarchy.
I'm not sure whether the author is referring to only literature or fantasy in all media types but his argument, while somewhat true, is deeply flawed. Star Wars to some degree looks backwards to a romantic past by having chivalrous knights but its good guys aren't that idealized. The spin-off books that followed don't include them either. I can't think of any other fantasy novels published after LOTR off the top of my head but audiences in recent decades have been demanding less of the "backwardness" the author seems to dislike. So I just don't think Harry Potter was the first to fill that void. Rowling is simply following a trend that's been gradually modernizing the genre. And not all fantasy takes place in a pseudo-feudal world.
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macfalk
Doriath
Nov 30 2010, 10:23am
Post #17 of 26
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That's an unusual statement by JKR, since the HP genre is fantasy //
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The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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The Party Tree
Menegroth
Nov 30 2010, 2:28pm
Post #18 of 26
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Apparently she didn't realize she had started writing fantasy until the first book was published.
The School of Witchcraft and Wizardry didn't tip her off?
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Kangi Ska
Gondolin
Nov 30 2010, 8:19pm
Post #19 of 26
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Ms Rowling did not borrow any of her ideas from other contemporary authors either.
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Harry Potter is wholly new and a class onto itself. 
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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TheGoblinKing
Nargothrond
Dec 1 2010, 9:02pm
Post #21 of 26
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For The Dementers, The Cave Troll and Wormtail simply screams Ring rip offs to me. But then again The Arthur and The Holy Grail stuff is all over Rings too me. All writers barrow ideas from other books and so on an twist them into there own world.
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Finduilas
Nevrast
Dec 2 2010, 11:13pm
Post #22 of 26
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picture with snape holding the lightsaber! I agree that there is no chance of a case of HP stealing from Star Wars, since starwars is so eastern based, but the pic is still funny.
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Welsh hero
Mithlond
Dec 3 2010, 6:05pm
Post #23 of 26
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Someone published a fantasy book that has a few that are similar things in it's plot it must be a rip off kind of childish.
I find it even more childish if someone claims not to be able to read books because of it.
And considering Lord of the rings is influenced by myth and legends, Lord of the rings doesn't have anything to say.
http://www.facebook.com/hobbitnz
(This post was edited by Welsh hero on Dec 3 2010, 6:07pm)
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Welsh hero
Mithlond
Dec 3 2010, 6:11pm
Post #24 of 26
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They've also done a article on what copied Harry Potter
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also a good read
http://www.facebook.com/hobbitnz
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ltnjmy
Ossiriand
Dec 7 2010, 10:41pm
Post #25 of 26
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I have noted that use of the term "Dark Lord" in LOTR & Harry Potter Series
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It is curious that Voldemort (the bad guy of the Harry Potter Series) is called the "Dark Lord" throughout by many of his adherents - similar to Sauron (the bad guy of the LOTR) being called the Dark Lord...
Has anyone else noticed this ????
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