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Compa_Mighty
Dor-Lomin
Jun 25 2010, 7:26am
Post #1 of 18
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Mexico from A to Z: Letter M, a very special edition!
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Hello! It’s time for the next installment of Mexico from A to Z. It’s incredible, but this is the fourteenth week of the series, and I am quite happy about how all this has turned out. I want to thank you for boosting the series with great comments and extra information that has largely expanded the content, and made it an interesting experience beyond what I had planned beforehand. We are now beyond the midpoint in the series, and M is one of the most important entries of them all. When I traced the master plan for Mexico from A to Z, I planned most of what I was going to write about. Even though these concepts have evolved, and several things have been added or modified, from day one I knew there were three particular letters which would be the most important and long of the series, because of the sheer amount of concepts that fell into that letter, and because of their enormous importance to what the series is about: Mexican culture. Fortunately enough, they are almost evenly spaced throughout the alphabet. You have already read Ch, the last of these will be T, and the third one is M. This is a very special edition that contains many important and interesting things, I hope you enjoy it!
M is México
Mexico is the common name for the country, which is officially named the United States of Mexico. Used as the country’s name to substitute New Spain immediately after the consummation of the Independence, Mexico is a term that was salvaged from pre-hispanic heritage.
According to a hypothesis, Mexico means “The place in the bellybutton of the Moon”, in reference to the Lake of Texcoco, roughly shaped like a crescent moon. As I have mentioned previously, the city of Mexico-Tenochtitlan was built in the center of the Lake. Other hypothesis, which seems linguistically sounder, is that it means “The Place of Mexihtli”, which was one of the names of the Aztec patron god, Huitzilopochtli. The inhabitants of the city of Mexico-Tenochtitlan were alternately called Mexica or Tenochca, as the term Aztec referred to all seven tribes that set out to the South from Chicomostoc, the Place of the Seven Caves in Aztlán, The Place of Cranes. Using Aztec to name the Mexica, is only a later use by modern archaeologists.
Map of the Texcoco Lake with some pre-Columbian cities marked
The terms Mexico and Mexican began to be used by the Spanish as soon as they arrived in America. They can be found in all the soldiers’ and friars’ writings, including Bernal Díaz del Castillo’s The True Story of the Conquest of New Spain, Cortés’s Relation Letters, and Sahagún’s writings. Throughout the 300 years of Colonial domination, natives from the New Spain were called “novohispanos”, but the Nahua natives kept their Mexican denomination.
Mexico was written with X by the Spaniards in the 16th Century for a reason: in something that we could call “Middle Spanish” (there is no such thing, Spanish has changed little in the last 1000 years, but I’ll use the term for our present purposes) the sound “sh” existed and was written “x”, all X’s in Náhuatl are strictly pronounced “sh”, and so the letter X was chosen. The 16th and 17th centuries were a period of transition for the language, and until the Royal Academy was finally formed in the 18th, spelling did change for many words. The sound “sh” was eventually lost in Spanish, and the x took several sounds, including the same as “j”, something between English “h” and “kh”, “s” and English or French “x”, hence it became México/Méjico in Spanish (some Spaniards still write it that way) Messico in Italian, and Mexico and Mexique in English and French.
M is for Maya
The Maya was a pre-Columbian civilization that lived and flourished in Southern Mexico (the states of Yucatán, Quintana Roo, Campeche, Tabasco and Chiapas) and Central America. Despite being one of the iconic and most recognized civilizations of the area, they are actually quite atypical by Aztec standards, for example. That doesn’t mean they didn’t build a great cultural foundation for civilizations that came after them.
A highly advanced scientific culture, the Maya were expert astronomers and mathematicians. They were the first to build observatories as we know them, and are one of the only two ancient cultures that understood and created the concept of zero (the other were the ancient cultures of India). They also created a calendar more precise than the Julian and the Gregorian, and counted time enviably through the “long count”, a succession of symbols that name a date through accumulation upon the date set as the date of creation and appearance of Men. The last date found in any stellae (inscriptions on rock) of the Maya World is December 21, 2012, which has led to all “the end of the world” talk we so often use. This incredible scientific profile caused archaeologists and anthropologists to think for many years that the Maya were a pacific people of priests and scientists, something that has been debunked in the last ten years, thanks to new physical finds and the comprehensive decipherment of the Maya writing, mainly by the youngest ever winner of the McArthur Fellowship, David Stuart, based on Yuri Knorosov’s discovery that Maya writing is actually phonetic.
 
Example of a date in the long count / David Stuart, the famous Mayanist.
 
Different representations of zero / The Maya number system with base 20
Example of how Maya phonetic symbols work.
The Maya region was an entirely different sphere of influence to that of Central Mexico early in the first millennium, and the Maya culture flourished to its highest point between the years 300 and 950, the period that has been traditionally called “The Classic”. The most important City-State of the Maya throughout this period was undoubtedly Tikal, in modern day Guatemala, the second being Calakmul, in today’s Campeche. These two cities were the protagonists of long and treacherous wars that spanned generations, and whose tides were turned most of the times by an important ally changing sides. The third important City was Palenque for some 100 years (circa 650-750). It is important to mention the Tikal Royal Family was heavily involved with Teotihuacan’s ruling class, and that commerce to and from Central Mexico’s most important City (and the largest of the Western Hemisphere) was very fluent. Maya government seems to have been theocratic, and that there were monarchs in this part of the world. The Nahua Dual cosmovision wasn’t as present here as in other parts of Mesoamerica, and everything from Maya art, myth and writing seems to be quite different from that of the Center, making them a region with related, but not equal development to what is decidedly the Nahua world.
 
Tikal temple / Representation of how Tikal must have looked like back in its days of splendor
The Great Pyramid of Calakmul
The Maya had a second splendor upon the arrival of the Toltec, as I mentioned in letter K, and this was the time were the power shifted north to Chichén Itzá.
By the time the Aztecs took control of the region, the Maya were all but shadow of their former splendor, and were mainly reduced to small towns that lay in the ruins of the ancient cities. Due to this fact, the Maya were more difficult to conquer, and their complete domination wasn’t achieved until the 1570’s, some 50 years after the fall of Tenochtitlan.
Today, the Maya ethnicity is one of the largest in Mexico, and the Maya language (at least Yucatec Maya, since there are many variants) has recently surpassed Náhuatl as the most spoken native tongue in Mexico, with over 1 million speakers. The decipherment of Maya phonetic has given new perspective to Maya studies and the recovery of pride for its culture.
M is for Mixtec
The Mixtecatl, were the “People of the Clouds”, living in high altitudes in the Mountains of Oaxaca. They were posterior in arrival to the Zapotec, who were the original inhabitants of the land. Most original Zapotec archaeological sites now have super-imposed Mixtec motifs and elements. Their culture was quite similar to that of the Aztecs, but their prominent place in Mesoamerican canon comes from their metal work, mainly gold, that reached detail beyond anything found in the region. It has been hypothesized that these people might have arrived by sea from the Andean Region, meaning they might have been related to the Inca, who had a much more advanced use of metal as opposed to the Maya or the Aztec. This, of course, hasn’t been proven. Many pieces of Mixtec jewelry can be found in leading museums around the world.
  
Mixtec gold pieces
Legendary Lord Eight Deer from a Mixtec Codex
M is for Moctezuma
Moctezuma is the modern form of Náhuatl name Motecuzohma, which was the name of two Aztec Tlatoanis, the second of which is the most famous, for it was he who endured the Spanish invasion in 1519. Since Moctezuma comes from Motecuhzoma, the form “Montezuma” often found in non-specialized English literature is wrong.
Moctezuma Ilhuicamina, Moctezuma the First, was Tlatoani from 1440 to 1469. Ilhuicamina means “The Shooter of the Sky” he was the immediate successor of Itzcoatl, and a general in his army during the Take of Azcapotzalco, which was the moment the Aztec “Empire” began its expansion after shaking off Azcapotzalco’s power. He was one of the tlatoanis whose Cihuacoatl, the person with whom they shared power in the sort of “diarchy” I have described, was Tlacaelel. His rule was vital for the conformation of Aztec power in generations to come.
Huhuemoctezuma, The Old Moctezuma, Moctezuma I, Ilhuicamina from a codex
Moctezuma Xocoyotzin, or Moctezuma II, was Tlatoani from 1502 to 1520, and was the one that received Cortés and the Spanish upon their arrival. He is surrounded by a lot of myths and legends, that range from The Treasure of Moctezuma to his believing Cortés was the embodiment of Quetzalcoatl returning from the East.
To be fair to Moctezuma, it is said he was a great warrior and a pious priest, a great example of Aztec values, and a great ruler, who made the Mexica very powerful, and thus, full of enemies. It is also true he had much more power than his predecessors, result of the death of Tlacaelel and Texcoco’s tlatoani, Nezahualcoyotl, the Poet King, which shifted power not only to Tenochtitlan, but to himself specifically. Painted mostly as a tyrant by both the Spanish and their native allies, there is an increasing school of thought that says Moctezuma was a great ruler that had his people’s interest in mind, which in turn sometimes damaged the interest of others, and creates enemies for you.
Traditionally, it is said Moctezuma had terrible dreams that predicted the arrival of the Spanish and the fall of his Empire, and that he was very superstitious, almost surrendering to Cortés because he thought he was a god. It is also said that the Aztec rebelled against Moctezuma, because he was not fighting the Spanish and lapidated him. While all of this is highly debatable, it is indeed good propaganda for the Spanish, saying they were thought to be gods and that everything had been Moctezuma’s fault, to the point of his people turning against him. Truth is, although it is not the leading version yet (hard to fight 450 years of official history), Moctezuma never believed Cortés was Quetzalcoatl, and this idea was reinforced when Aztecs began to actually kill Spaniards, and when the Spanish attacked Cholula, a city consecrated to Quetzalcoatl. It was an Aztec tradition to be hospitable with guests, so they were given gifts and brought to the city to keep close watch on them. After Cortés went to Veracruz to parley with the expedition whose mission was to capture him, and Alvarado attacked Tenochtitlan in his absence, everything became more complicated; the Spanish kidnapped Moctezuma, and killed him, saying later he was killed by his own people. In short, Moctezuma is one of those figures to whom history has been unfair, mainly because of the political agenda of the winners.
  
Moctezuma Xocoyotzin in a codex / European representation of Moctezuma / Moctezuma's Head dress with human size comparison. The original item is in Austria, where Charles V sent it after he received it as a gift from Cortés
The meeting of Cortés and Moctezuma in one of the paths to Tenochtitlan is one of those moments that have modified the course of history, as the time Pope Leon X met Attila and managed to fend him off Rome. It was the meeting of two worlds indeed.
M is for Morelos
José María Morelos y Pavón was perhaps, the greatest hero of the history of the country. A priest, and a student of Father Hidalgo, he joined Hidalgo’s movement swiftly, and took over as its main defender after Hidalgo’s and Allende’s assassination. He led the campaign of the only period of the Independence War in which it was a full blown war, with two armies fighting each other and besieging their strongholds. He took many a city of the South of the country, including the Port of Acapulco, through great military tactics and strategy. It is said that Napoleon once declared he could conquer the world with 20 generals like Morelos. Whether this is true or not, is tough to say, but that was the reputation of Morelos as a general. He redacted a famous document called “The Sentiments of the Nation” which was a kind of proto-Constitution, and declared himself “Serf of the Country”. He participated and protected the Constituent Congress, as they created what would be called the Constitution of Apatzingán, the Country’s first formal constitution. He was eventually betrayed and shot in 1815. He is one of the few true patriots this country has seen.
 
Morelos and Morelos in the $50 peso bill
He is one of the most recognized faces in Mexico, having appeared in numerous coins and bills, including present day $50 peso bill.
One of the 31 states is called Morelos, and the capital of the state of Michoacán, Morelia, is also called after him.
As irony would have it, his son –yes, I know he was a priest- Juan Nepobuceno Almonte was one of the main conservatives who brought Maximilian of Habsburg to rule in the Second Mexican Empire.
M is for Muralism
Muralism is a pictorial movement that began in Mexico in the 1930’s and lived up until the 1960’s. It is one of the few completely Mexican art forms, which was supported by many great painters, which constitute a golden age of Mexican Art. Being enormous paintings that span huge walls, they fall into a category of Monumental and public architecture, and were mainly used to uplift National values, heroes, and to define being Mexican in public spaces, which range from National Palace, home of the Executive Powers, to the Castle of Chapultepec, the National Museum of History. Some of this movement’s exponents are Diego Rivera, Juan O’Gorman, Guillermo González Camarena, José Clemente Orozco and David Alfaro Siqueiros.
It is said the style of many modern comics draw from Mexican Murals. One fun fact is that Diego Rivera was requested to paint a mural in New York’s Rockefeller Center. His concept included painting Stalin. Rockefeller requested Stalin to be removed, Rivera refused, Rockefeller bade him good bye, and whatever of the mural that had already been painted was covered up.
González Camarena's "The Hug" an allegory of the union of Spanish and Native into the new mixed race that is predominant in Mexico
 
Diego Rivera's Murals from National Palace. Left, fragment from Tenochtitlan, Right, Tajín and tribute officers. Each of these are about 10 ft high.
M is for Mole
Mole (maw-leh) is a traditional Mexican family of sauces which are prepared with a paste of several chiles. Poblano Mole, the most common and famous (at least in large cities) includes chocolate and a bit of sugar. It has a peculiar taste, between sweet and spicy. It is eaten mainly with chicken and Mexican rice, or with enchiladas. It a staple of Mexican cuisine, and something to try whenever you can!
Chicken with mole and Mexican Rice
M is for Mariachi
A mariachi is a band of strings and trumpets, originally from the state of Jalisco, that sings folk music. It is normally formed by 7 to 12 members, although there is not a strict maximum. The Mariachi have become an icon of Mexican culture thanks to the lively music and beautiful outfits, charro outfits, they use when playing. Charros, as I have mentioned, are Mexican traditional cowboys. Mariachi outfits do have modifications, since they only play and don’t ride!
The word Mariachi comes from the French word for wedding, mariage. The mariachi appear in many different events, and are present at most important parties: in graduations, weddings and such, once the live music or the DJ are over, around 4 or 5 o’clock in the morning, the Mariachi arrive and play for an hour or so. The Mariachi also play the traditional Mañanitas (Little Mornings, the birthday song) in the celebration of Our Lady of Guadalupe, every December 12.
Last but not least, Mariachi is the weapon of choice for serenades, which are a tradition –albeit disappearing- in Mexico.
One of the most famous composers of music for Mariachi and/or adopted by the Mariachis, is José Alfredo Jiménez.
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
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squire
Gondolin
Jun 25 2010, 11:28am
Post #2 of 18
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Thanks for a very special edition indeed. That was fabulous, in the original sense.
Your stories rang a couple of particular bells with me.
The story of Diego Rivera's conflict with Nelson Rockefeller. Rockefeller Center in New York City is the first and still most beautiful example in America of a small city district that was re-developed by its corporate owner into a coherent and useful urban place. Built in the Depression era by oil tycoon John D. Rockefeller - then the richest man in America, like Bill Gates today - to show faith in the future of free enterprise, it is a masterpiece of site planning, Art Deco architecture, and the concept of public art. Rockefeller's son, Nelson, had taken an interest in modern art; and it was he who recruited Diego Rivera to paint a mural in the lobby of the 60-story skyscraper at 30 Rockefeller Plaza, the very center of the entire site. I just learned that Picasso and Matisse had turned the commission down - showing that Nelson Rockefeller had probably the best taste in the history of real estate development, and the worst sensitivity about the political leanings of the major artists of the day.
For as you say, Rivera was strongly left wing and a famous supporter of the goals of the Soviet Revolution. That event was then only 15 years in the past and, especially in a decade of worldwide capitalist depression, it was still seen as an inspiration by liberals, socialists, and communists the world over. Certainly most Mexicans responded enthusiastically to the Soviet adventure, having just completed their own Revolution of 1910 with its cry of power to the people. Thus Rivera sketched out and began painting "Man at the Crossroads" in the heart of Rockefeller Center:
Diego Rivera. Study of "Man at the Crossroads". Click here for a larger image.
This picture really repays study. But to stick to the main story, just to the right of the central Man, who you can see is torn by the conflicting forces of modern history all about him, is V. I. Lenin, the late Soviet leader. That is the portrait face that Nelson Rockefeller, when he saw it, requested that Rivera replace. Rivera wavered - as you can see, the entire right half of the composition would still have been dominated by communist and revolutionary images (see Marx and Engels?) - but his assistants, Red Mexican artists to a man - threatened to go on strike if he complied with the American capitalist's request. And sure enough, Nelson Rockefeller canceled the contract, had the mural destroyed, and replaced it with one by Spanish artist Jose Maria Sert that is there now. A striking enough piece of WPA-era mural art, to be sure, but not in the same league as Rivera's masterpiece. This entire story is acted out in the movie Frida, which I have mentioned earlier in this discussion series. As the movie recreates the final showdown, Rivera yells "It's my painting!" to which Rockefeller retorts "On my wall!"
The Hug of Death that led to new Life. I will not ramble at such length about the second work that I have a connection with. You showed Camarena's "The Hug" and finally solved my problem. Since you started this series, I have wanted to discuss my favorite Mexican art image. I saw it as an engraving on the back of the currency during one of my visits there in the 1980s and loved it - and then was ecstatic to encounter the original painting at the National History Museum later in my trip. I bought a postcard of the painting to remember it by. Unfortunately that was long ago, and I was unable to find it by Google searching in the past few months. But the one you show is not quite the one I remember! Sure enough, it seems Camarena did the painting twice with slightly different treatments. Here is the one I remember:
Jorge Gonzalez Camarena, The Conquest, renamed The Fusion of Cultures. 1960. Click here for larger image.
I was thrilled and terrified to see Mexico conceived of as a nation descended from mutual hatred and slaughter, between Native American and Spanish conquistador.
I love the Aztec warrior's bird-armor and helmet, which shows he was evenly matched against the armored horseman, highlighting Mexicans' pride in their native ancestors.
I love the yin-yang symmetry and the blood-red palette. I am so glad you retrieved this work for me. Thanks again for this wonderful series!
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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SirDennisC
Gondolin
Jun 25 2010, 3:46pm
Post #3 of 18
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I have had the pleasure of seeing the 1932 Rivera mural commissioned by Henry Ford at the Detroit Institute of Arts (DIA). Covering 4 walls comprising "Rivera Court" the thing is impressive as it is massive and historically important.
At this link: Scroll through the four walls to open a detail page with magnifying feature for each.
Your entry on Moctezuma was enlightening as usual. "[It's] hard to fight 450 years of official history" -- ain't it the truth. Thank you for your efforts.
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Lily Fairbairn
Gondolin
Jun 25 2010, 4:27pm
Post #4 of 18
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Thank you again for this great series
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You should gather all these posts together into a textbook! I've learned a lot -- thank you for your time and effort.
Two asides: one of my granddaughters is named Maya, because my son and his wife visited Mexico during her pregnancy and admired the Mayan ruins.
And I love poblano mole! Admittedly, there's not much made with chocolate I don't like, but enchiladas with poblano mole are a wonderful treat.
* * * * * * *
Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?
A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!
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Compa_Mighty
Dor-Lomin
Jun 25 2010, 6:33pm
Post #5 of 18
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Several notes regarding your post: first of all, thanks for expanding and correcting some of my data. I knew the story of Rivera's painting, but didn't know many of the details you posted. Thanks for correcting it was Lenin and not Stalin. Also, thanks for posting the picture, I believe I had jus seen it once before, and wasn't conscious that was the piece that was to be placed in Rockefeller Center. I completely agree on what you say about the beauty of the place.
While Frida, Diego and most artists were sympathizers of the Communist cause, as I mentioned when I talked about Frida and their friednship with Lev Trotsky, I have to disagree on this:
Certainly most Mexicans responded enthusiastically to the Soviet adventure, having just completed their own Revolution of 1910 with its cry of power to the people.
The Revolution was mostly on two levels: "Effective vote, no reelection" defended by the political class; and Zapata's "Land and Freedom" and "The Land belongs to that who works it". So in fact, it actually promoted private property for peasants, or at least a very weird figure that is common in Mexico, called the "ejido" which is a cross between private and communal property. The land belongs to a group of peasants, but it does not have to do with the government. This is incredibly quite pre-Columbian, with the notion of share property from the Nahua "calpullis".
Communists were always frowned upon, even though they were never outlawed. In the 1930's, President Cárdenas elminated freedom of teaching with a free point of view and installed Socialist Education for all. It is important to say it was never communist. Perhaps this socialism sounds very much like communism to a country so decidedly capitalist, but as long as private property and a certain level of freedom and rights is maintained, it is quite far from communism for those who have lived this kind of regimes. Socialist education was eliminated in the late 40's.
About the painting, I'm glad you brought it up. First of all, thanks for correcting me again, it is Jorge González Camarena, and not Guillermo. Guillermo was a Mexican inventor who released color TV in a small scale in Mexico well before the current NTSC format.
Anyway, he painted both pieces as a series, with the one you show obviously coming before the one I posted. The one you posted is also my favorite one, but for some reason it has less exposure and it's more difficult to find. It's an impressive piece to see live... the colors are just amazing.
I was thrilled and terrified to see Mexico conceived of as a nation descended from mutual hatred and slaughter, between Native American and Spanish conquistador.
I had never seen it that way, but you are absolutely right. As you have maybe now grasped, after so many entries, Mexico is a country built on many unusual things and situations, one of the most important ones being what you just mentioned: the tough relationship between its European and Native pasts.
Thanks again for all the extra info!
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
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Compa_Mighty
Dor-Lomin
Jun 25 2010, 6:35pm
Post #6 of 18
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You're welcome Lily! I also love Mole enchiladas
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And Maya is such a nice name for a girl.
Aunt Dora had mentioned something about a book as well, perhaps I'll do it eventually!
I'm glad you're enjoying this.
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
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Compa_Mighty
Dor-Lomin
Jun 25 2010, 6:42pm
Post #7 of 18
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Can you believe I'd never seen those?
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Thanks for the link! I'm glad you found the Moctezuma thing useful... I've only come to his toughts and conclusion through much independent reading (outside from school), in fact there is a book almost dedicated to debunking negative myths about the Aztecs and Moctezuma called "Moctezuma y el Anáhuac"... this one goes to the other end sometimes... too "nativist" so to speak. Unfortunately it was published only by a small Mexican publishing house and it's tough to get.
Anyway, perhaps it's good to do ome justice to the guy... if only with a few people. 
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
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GAndyalf
Doriath
Jun 25 2010, 6:56pm
Post #8 of 18
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Don't tell the United States Marines! ;-D
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They'll take YEARS to learn the "new word" to their song! 
"Be good, be careful, have fun, don't get arrested!"
---Marcia Michelle Alexander Hamilton, 7 Nov 1955 - 19 Nov 2009
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Alassëa Eruvande
Doriath
Jun 25 2010, 7:25pm
Post #9 of 18
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I love mariachis! We even had them at our wedding reception and there's not a drop of Mexican blood anywhere in our families.
I wish I could post a picture of them, but our scanner is not currently speaking to our computer. Lover's tiff, I guess.
The group we hired had seven pieces and a girl singer who could go toe-to-toe with any professional, IMO. She had such a powerful voice and was not afraid to use it. They played us into the reception venue, much to the utter delight of all our "yankee" relatives, who don't get to see that sort of thing every day, and didn't know we'd hired mariachis. Mr. Eruvande's grandmas said it was the highlight of their trip--our wedding came in second, I guess!
My favorite song to request is "Volver, volver", and the mariachis made a half circle around us and that girl belted it out for us.
Here is another rendition with a lady singer and a harp!
*grito!*
And suddenly the Ainur saw afar off a light, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame.
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Compa_Mighty
Dor-Lomin
Jun 25 2010, 9:11pm
Post #10 of 18
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You left me thinking, my friend...
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And by sheer luck I remembered I had translated bits of the chapter of the book I mentioned in which Quetzalcoatl's myth is discussed. I dug out the translation from its original post at Heavengames.com, and here I copy both what I wrote, and and additional point of view someone else posted, by another author (who is either British or American). Perhaps this backs up what I mentioned in the post on a more formal way.
This is my translation of part of the chapter called A myth: Moctezuma believed Cortés was Quetzalcoatl from Pablo Moctezuma Barragán's book, titled Moctezuma and The Anahuac (Noriega Editores, Mexico 2004).
Pablo Moctezuma Barragán has been a professor/researcher at the Metropolitan University (UAM) in Mexico City and the National University of Mexico (UNAM). And was delegate for one of Mexico City's delgations in the period 1997-2000.
The article starts here:
"...Cortés, in his letters to King Charles, never mentions having been confused with Quetzalcoatl. As a matter of fact he never mentions that deity by name. [..]Neither does Bernal Díaz del Castillo, who wrote The History of the Conquest of New Spain nearly 50 years after the conquest, mention it.
[..]In the Anahuac (the Central Mexican Plain) embassies were treated with special care, never meaning submission, but respect.
[..]The idea of Cortés being confused with Quetzalcoatl comes out from Fray Bernardino de Sahagún who: 1)used information from baptized natives who never met Moctezuma 2)and wrote their tales decades after the invasion. [..]
[..]Another idea, that said Quetzalcoatl was Saint Thomas, was also divulged by the priests to convince the natives they were destined to be conquered by bearded, white people, who would bring them Christianity. It's also a common thing to describe Quetzalcoatl as a white, bearded being. However, in codexes (plural?) prior to Cuauhtémoc, Ehecatl-Quetzalcoatl was represented with a mask and a bird's beak that doesn't leave space for a beard; and as for Quetzalcoatl's color, we know it was white, but not in racial terms. He was the white Tezcatlipoca. There were, too, a black, red and blue Tezcatlipocas. It's clear there isn't a blue race.
Quetzalcoatl wasn't bearded. Maybe the Spaniards confused the snake tongue he had with a beard. [..]
Knowing Cortés's, Bernal Díaz's and Sahagún's versions, we can state the following conclusion: Cortés, in an effort to hide his murders, invents Moctezuma forfeited power volutarily. [..]
[..]But in Anahuac, private property of land did not exist, nor kings that could submit themselves to another lord to hand over land. Their system wasn't feudal[..]On the other hand, Moctezuma could not hand the land over or submit to another king, because he didn't have that "unipersonal" power. Politic power resided in the Council and not a king, who couldn't do what he pleased with land, gold (which did not have a monetarial value) and tributes.
[..] Nigel Davies explains: [..]Moctezuma, uncertain about the invader's identity, originally sent to Cortés, not only Quetzalcoatl's distinctives, but other gods' as well. Additionally, had Cortés indeed been Quetzalcoatl, we wouldn't have profaned the holy city of Cholula, which was dedicated to Quetzalcoatl himself."
It's a long chapter, but I think those are the most important points to safely say that Moctezuma didn't believe Cortés was a god.
And from forummer Lord of Hosts:
Coincidentally, I was thinking about this problem only a few days ago. The idea of Cortés as a millennial impostor has always seemed fantastic. Moctezuma was the ruler of millions, no simple savage but a rational man with a practical cast of mind, and it’s difficult to believe a king of his great experience could be so credulous. And from the evidence, it is a fairy tale.
The words of Moctezuma’s that we have come from Cortés … Cortés actually has Moctezuma insist to his Spanish audience that he himself is not a god, and does not pose untold wealth: “I know that [my enemies] have told you the walls of my houses are made of gold, and that the floor mats in my rooms … are likewise of gold, and that I was, and claimed to be a god; … The houses as you see are of stone and lime and clay … Then he raised his clothes and showed me his body, saying, “See that I am of flesh and blood like you and all other men.” ...
There is a central explanation for Moctezuma’s decision, however. Besides attempting to turn the potential conquerors back by offering them annual tribute, the emperor apparently did try to have the Spanish killed at least twice while they were still distant; somebody certainly gave the order to attack them. Yet, when the Spaniards were nearing the city, “Moctezuma did not give orders for anyone to meet them in battle.” He could not: he knew now that the Spaniards won battles in the open field. Even if he had had time to arm every warrior in his kingdom and then surround and destroy the Spanish with sheer force of numbers, he would have been politically destroyed. The casualties would have been immense, beyond anything ever seen, and the people of the Central Valley accepted the arrogance of their Mexica neighbours in exchange for peace and the privilege of living close to power. If the Aztecs could not deliver a quick victory on the outskirts of their own capital, they were doomed; so if his army could not win quickly and easily here – and Moctezuma knew they could not – then they could not fight. At the time, Cortés and his followers did not understand the political situation well enough to grasp this fact; centuries later, posterity tends to lose sight of the realities of that world. Not so who wrote a few decades later. Said López de Gómara: “It seemed unfitting and dishonorable for him to make war upon Cortés and fight a mere handful of strangers who said they were ambassadors. Another reason was that he did not wish to stir up trouble for himself (and this was the truest reason), for it was clear that he would immediately have to face an uprising among the Otomí, the Tlaxcalans, and many others.” Said Bernal Díaz: “Moctezuma’s captains and papas also advised him that if he tried to prevent our entry we would fight him in his subject towns.”
It is reasonable to assume that, while Cortés and his men were in the city gathering information about the kingdom, Moctezuma was also attempting to gather information about them. It may have been his hope that they would eventually leave of their own accord ... Whether Moctezuma was behind it or not, his people did raise a rebellion against the Spanish as soon as Cortés returned from the coast. Moctezuma himself became known for the speeches he made from the rooftops in which he asked the warriors to lay down their arms. “Let the Mexica hear: we are not their match, may they be dissuaded [from further fighting].” By then, he was in irons, and so has been seen as a coward doing his best to save his life. But it is possible that he, the warrior king who had led so many successful campaigns, preached peace in relation to the Spanish out of true conviction that his people would be destroyed if they pursued violence. In interpreting his actions, we would do well to remember that if so, he was right. Moctezuma, with his knowledge of the capabilities of both sides, was one of the few Mexica in a position to see the long durée.
Camilla Townsend, ‘Burying the White Gods: New Perspectives on the Conquest of Mexico’, American Historical Review 108/3 (2003), p. 682, pp. 682-3.
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
(This post was edited by Compa_Mighty on Jun 25 2010, 9:14pm)
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Compa_Mighty
Dor-Lomin
Jun 25 2010, 9:26pm
Post #11 of 18
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And you posted a great version by Vicente Fernández.  The Mariachis at your wedding sound like a lot of fun, and they must have certainly made an impact for the unprepared and unaware!
By the way, it was you who came up with the idea of showcasing them, so thanks!
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
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Arandiel
Hithlum
Jun 26 2010, 4:59pm
Post #13 of 18
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Another bit of info about Mayan
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A friend's husband is Mayan, and he has told me that Mayan is a tonal language, like Mandarin - which means that words with the same vowel and consonant sounds can have different meanings based on how they're pitched!
Wherever you go, there you are.
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GAndyalf
Doriath
Jun 26 2010, 5:07pm
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Something to make you really pay attention to who's speaking to you, eh?
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Don't know if this is true, but when I was in the 6th grade my history teacher's daughter went on a tour of China and one of the tourists asked whether or not the water was safe. According to his story, he used wrong inflection and instead was actually asking if the girl 'made out' using the American meaning there of kissing intimately. It's my opinion now that this is probably an exaggeration, but it forever made the imprint upon me to pay attention to how the natives use their language because it can be important.
"Be good, be careful, have fun, don't get arrested!"
---Marcia Michelle Alexander Hamilton, 7 Nov 1955 - 19 Nov 2009
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Compa_Mighty
Dor-Lomin
Jun 26 2010, 5:50pm
Post #15 of 18
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I have always heard Maya and Chinese can understand themselves in some 30%, which has always been an enigma for lunguists... did they have communication with the Chinese? Do they come from China in an ancient time? Incredible coincidences?
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
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Compa_Mighty
Dor-Lomin
Jun 26 2010, 5:58pm
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I can't tell for sure, but I suppose it could be true
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Apparently people who speak tonal languages do it so naturally that it doesn't bother them at all... they can distinguish tones as you and I distinguish "s" from "z". However, the "buzzed" English and French Z is extremely complicated for Spanish speakers, it's a sound that simply doesn't exist. A problem similar to the one you mentioned comes when trying to say "poisson" and "poison", fish and poison... and it doesn't involve tones, which doesn't make your story all that hard to believe.
There are studies that clearly show the Chinese use more areas of their brain while speaking than we Westerners do, which only supports the thesis. To what degree and just how close can expressions that mean things that apart from each other, I couldn't tell... we would have to speak Mandarin to know for sure.
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
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Kangi Ska
Gondolin
Jun 27 2010, 2:22am
Post #17 of 18
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Once again you outdo yourself.
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Thanks for the hard work.
Kangi Ska
At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.
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SirDennisC
Gondolin
Jun 28 2010, 6:20am
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That site is intense... it's a great time to be a geek, no?
(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jun 28 2010, 6:20am)
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