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Boromir's_bane
Lindon
Dec 15 2009, 5:31am
Post #1 of 7
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Of Turin Turambar (part 2): part 2
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In this installment, I’d like to change gears here and focus on another character in this story. One of my favorite characters in all of the Silmarillion is Glaurung the worm. Arrogant, cocky, vicious, sarcastic, you name it he’s a full character, not a 2-dimenional villain like Sauron or a faceless evil like Morgoth (except for his duel with Fingolfin). He occupies space, feels emotions toward his enemy and shows the cunning of a Hannibal Lecter.
He also progresses, from his very first encounter with the house of Feanor to now, he is a completely different entity. In his initial encounter he is turned away by the arrows of Fingon’s archers. Yet in Turin’s tale, he is an enemy almost without weakness.
How much time and effort do you think Tolkien put into flushing out the character of Glaurung? What characteristics make him the most “human” in the way he battles our hero, Turin?
So first things first, the warning of Ulmo comes full circle when Glaurung uses the bridge to demolish the gates of Nargothrond. Not only do he and the orcs slaughter the people of the city and drive off the captives, but then Glaurung takes another twist and drives off all the plundering orcs and hoards the riches of Nargothrond for himself.
“…and being thus secure, he gathered all the hoard and riches of Felagund and heaped them, and lay upon them in the innermost hall, and rested a while.
Foreshadowing of another certain worm aside, do dragons truly find heaps of gold and jewels comfortable to sleep on? Knowing they have no real use for the treasures they hoard, what drives the dragons to stockpile these wealthy goods?
Before making up his mound of treasure Glaurung lays the first of his clever little traps for Turin.
“Evil have been all thy ways, son of Hurin. Thankless fosterling, outlaw, slayer of thy friend, thief of love, usurper of Nargothrond, captain foolhardy, and deserter of thy kin. As thralls thy mother and sister live in Dor-lomin, in misery and want. Thou art arrayed as a prince but they go in rags; and for thee they yearn, but thou carest not for that. Glad may thy father be to learn that he hath such a son; as learn he shall.’
Then Finduilas and the prisoners are driven off and their cries of help fall on deaf ears.
What is Glaurung’s purpose in sending Turin off on this fool’s errand? Does he just mean to torment Turin? Does he delight in the suffering of a member of the house of Finwe (Finduilas)? Or has he already set all these things in motion that are come to pass?
Before Turin goes off to Dorlomin, we have an interesting exchange between Turin and Glaurung. The dragon releases his gaze and Turin comes back to reality, with the prisoners long gone. The only thing left is a feeling of woe and a mortal enemy in his path.
At this point, what are Turin’s feelings toward Glaurung? Does he see him simply as an enemy to conquer or is something else brewing here that is far more personal?
“If thou wilt be slain, I will slay thee gladly. But small help will that be to Morwen and Nienor. No heed didst thou give to the cries of the Elf-woman. Wilt thou deny also the bond of thy blood?”
And after yet another stab of Turin’s sword:
“’Nay! At least thou art valiant; beyond all whom I have met. And they lie who say that we of our part do not honour the valour of our foes. See now! I offer thee freedom. Go to thy kin, if thou canst. Get thee gone! And if Elf or Man be left to make tale of these days, then surely in scorn they will name thee, if thou spurnest this gift.”
Why does Turin believe this and take the word of his enemy at face value? It can’t simply be because he’s groggy from the dragon’s stare, right? And what about Glaurung during this exchange? We see the craftiness here and the ability to rouse emotion from his enemy, what strikes Turin closer? The threat of his family, the guilt of Finduilas or that this creature could be capable of any kind of mercy?
From here I promise we’ll move a little bit quicker, but I really wanted to lay some groundwork for the two most dominant characters for the rest of this chapter.
Any other comments or questions are greatly appreciated.
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sador
Gondolin
Dec 16 2009, 7:25am
Post #2 of 7
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he’s a full character, not a 2-dimenional villain like Sauron or a faceless evil like Morgoth (except for his duel with Fingolfin).
Have you forgot the Akallabeth? Or even the Sauron-Finrod challange? Sauron's arrogant supposition that if he can make himself a mighty wolf, he will be the doom of Huan? His interrogation of Gorlim?
And I think Morgoth's confrontations with Feanor and Ungoliant make him anything but a faceless evil.
How much time and effort do you think Tolkien put into flushing out the character of Glaurung? What characteristics make him the most “human” in the way he battles our hero, Turin?
Actually, I think Tolkien tries to make him quite unhuman sometimes, when refering to the spirit of his Master that is in him, and when he speaks of the great strength that has passed out of him instead of plainly calling him tired.
But like with Smaug, that most endearing trait he has is his cynical sense of humour. And I like Smaug better - especially as Smaug's humour leads to his downfall, which might not be said of Glaurung - which is just a super-intelligent monster the goods guys try to beat.
Foreshadowing of another certain worm aside, do dragons truly find heaps of gold and jewels comfortable to sleep on? Knowing they have no real use for the treasures they hoard, what drives the dragons to stockpile these wealthy goods?
A widely-held UUT (Curious subscribes to it, and so does Michael Martinez - and ven squire!) is that as gold is especially subject to Morgoth's taint, dragons gain nourishment from it.
What is Glaurung’s purpose in sending Turin off on this fool’s errand? Does he just mean to torment Turin?
With Morgoth, that's always a purpose.
And I won't put it beyond him to hope that Turin might wreak a bit of havac among these unreliable Easterlings, before they become fat and complacent.
Does he delight in the suffering of a member of the house of Finwe (Finduilas)?
Yes.
Also, like Gwindor, he believes that saving Finduilas might save Turin from his fate.
Or has he already set all these things in motion that are come to pass?
Not all, but if Turin will see for himself the troubles of his people, and learn that Morwen and Nienor are wandering alone in the Wild - he might be driven to seek them, causing more destruction to Morgoth's enemies on the way.
At this point, what are Turin’s feelings toward Glaurung? Does he see him simply as an enemy to conquer or is something else brewing here that is far more personal?
Turin's most cherished heirloom os the Helm of Hador, which is specifically supposed to be the bane of Glaurung.
Why does Turin believe this and take the word of his enemy at face value?
He does not. But he is relatively guileless. He probably would suppose that Glaurung simply wanted him to leave Finduilas, by offering him this devil's choice.
It can’t simply be because he’s groggy from the dragon’s stare, right?
At first, it clearly is.
And what about Glaurung during this exchange? We see the craftiness here and the ability to rouse emotion from his enemy, what strikes Turin closer? The threat of his family, the guilt of Finduilas or that this creature could be capable of any kind of mercy?
Not any supposition of Glaurung being merciful. But the guilt for deserting his family is stronger than the guilt for Finduilas.
And Glaurung also reminds him of Saeros' taints.
I really wanted to lay some groundwork for the two most dominant characters for the rest of this chapter. Hey! You forgot Sador!
Ah well, he did not even make ot to the published Sil. 
"Do not be troubled. The tale shall wait."
- Turambar
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squire
Gondolin
Dec 16 2009, 11:56am
Post #3 of 7
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I didn't know Curious and the esteemed Mr. Martinez had theorized about gold as dragon nourishment. The idea I had was that greed, not gold, was the actual, and much more "spiritual", source of a dragon's power. I have speculated that a hoard of gold "contains" the spiritual essence of all the acts of getting, making, hoarding, stealing, betrayal, etc. that various peoples (Elves, Dwarves, Men) have put into it in the past. If the hoard is big enough and old enough, then that is enough to keep a dragon going for centuries at least.
I know that one could say that the "taint" idea is essentially the same proposition, but I was trying to put the burden on the beings involved rather than the metal.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Dec 16 2009, 3:44pm
Post #4 of 7
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You know, come to think of it, there's little real reason why gold has come to be so coveted in the world. Plenty of other metals are rarer. Copper is prettier, and Niobium is both rarer and way prettier. Gold is too flimsy for most practical purposes (only in recent times has it found a practical purpose as a superconducter in computers...hmmm...what does that say about Morgoth residing in computers???) and for most ornamental purposes, again, copper is just as pliable. Granted, unlike other metals, you can beat gold into threads and weave cloth from it, but that hasn't been it's main use throughout the ages. It's simply...precioussss!
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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squire
Gondolin
Dec 16 2009, 10:32pm
Post #5 of 7
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It doesn't corrode, so it lasts more than a generation or two. That makes it good for money in the days before calculated interest and accounts books. Who wants a hoard or state treasury that oxidizes into dust just when you're thinking of financing a war? Second, it really does polish up to a beautiful and lasting shine - brighter and livelier than copper (which oxidizes rapidly). Gold is relatively rare, but not absolutely rare - unlike niobium, which wasn't a metal the ancients dealt much with anyway because it was first identified in the 19th century.
However, in recent times - since the 1930s, say - gold has lost its use as money (interest rates and account books finally won; or to put it another way, the world's money supply outstripped the world's gold supply by an extreme factor that precludes using gold even as a cash metal reserve). Now, more than ever before, I'd agree with you that gold's current value is based on sentiment and tradition, rather than actual worth and usage. Survivalists still like it, though - looking forward to the days after calculated interest and accounts books - because it doesn't corrode.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Dec 17 2009, 3:17am
Post #6 of 7
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So let's all invest in chrome. Titanium's good, too, but not as pretty as chrome.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
(This post was edited by Dreamdeer on Dec 17 2009, 3:18am)
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Dec 17 2009, 5:35pm
Post #7 of 7
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Throughout history, all the way back to ancient Egypt, on the average one ounce of gold will buy 350 loaves of bread.
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That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.
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