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Beren IV
Mithlond
Nov 25 2009, 5:47am
Post #1 of 5
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Beren and Lúthien part II: 2. Abandon all hope ye who enter here!
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B&L make it across the sands, and get to the seemingly volcanic wasteland that is the area around Angband. There they encounter Charcaroth, a super-werewolf that Melkor fed to be the true fitting enemy of Huan. Despair hits our heroes, for this was a foe they did not expect to be there; no rumor had gone out of it yet.
1. Just how similar are Mordor and Angband? I have seen Thrangodrim depicted as a volcano similar to Orodruin, although obviously bigger. Morgoth clearly has at least as much control, probably more, over his weapons than Sauron, though, not surprising what with Morgoth being a Vala and all.
2. Others have asked this last week, but if no word had otten out of Angand about this, how would anybody have known of what horrors B&L faced?
After a page on the horror of it all, suddenly Lúthien lifts up her hand and puts a spell over Charcaroth, "possessed as of old or by divine race". Evidently, Lú couldn't control it, or she would have used that earlier!
3. All right, who gave Lú the power to do that? It wasn't her blood from Melian. Which Vala would have stepped in?
4. Is this just a Deus ex Machina plot device?
The showdown between Lúthien and Morgoth happens in the next two paragraphs, but I will save those for another post.
The paleobotanist is back!
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sador
Gondolin
Nov 25 2009, 6:39am
Post #2 of 5
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Okay, Dante's then.
In fact, by rights I shouldn't be answering - as I am waay behind schedule in preparing next week's discussion.
But this is brief, so:
1. Just how similar are Mordor and Angband? I have seen Thrangodrim depicted as a volcano similar to Orodruin, although obviously bigger. Morgoth clearly has at least as much control, probably more, over his weapons than Sauron, though, not surprising what with Morgoth being a Vala and all.
Of course they are similar! After all, Angband was Sauron's fortress while Melkor lurked in Utumno!
I'm sure even the interior decoration was according to Sauron's taste.
2. Others have asked this last week, but if no word had otten out of Angand about this, how would anybody have known of what horrors B&L faced?
Beren told Dior, while he sat on his knees.
Just how does anyone knows what Sam went through in Cirith Ungol?
3. All right, who gave Lú the power to do that? It wasn't her blood from Melian. Which Vala would have stepped in?
Why not? Melian was connected to Lorien!
And after all, Luthien did the same with the guards around her tree-house in the Rapunzel episode.
4. Is this just a Deus ex Machina plot device?
The whole chapter reeks of them. Personally, I prefer of Turin Turambar any day.
"Forget for a while the dreadful doom of life" - Luthien.
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Nov 27 2009, 1:56am
Post #3 of 5
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Beren, I really enjoy the quality of your questions! It's just my brain's not in Middle Earth much right now, as we're about to embark on a vacation. But you're doing terrific!
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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batik
Dor-Lomin
Nov 28 2009, 5:49pm
Post #4 of 5
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1. Just how similar are Mordor and Angband? I have seen Thrangodrim depicted as a volcano similar to Orodruin, although obviously bigger. Morgoth clearly has at least as much control, probably more, over his weapons than Sauron, though, not surprising what with Morgoth being a Vala and all.
Similar enough to have me thinking that Angband reminded me of Mordor  . Although I do understand now ( I hope) that Angband was a fortress while Mordor was a realm with Barad-dur being its fortress.
2. Others have asked this last week, but if no word had otten out of Angand about this, how would anybody have known of what horrors B&L faced?
*This*--being Carcharoth? Sorry if I am not following the question as intended--the sentence beginning with "Rumour of he knew not..." completely boggles my mind!
Anyhoo---(acting as if I am interpreting this correctly)---I suppose no one did know ahead of time exactly what B and L were up against--all the details were given after the fact.
3. All right, who gave Lú the power to do that? It wasn't her blood from Melian. Which Vala would have stepped in?
I don't think any Vala necessarily stepped in here but I do think her Maia(r) blood was key to this *possession*. Why? It's the use of the words "descended from".
4. Is this just a Deus ex Machina plot device?
Nah.
(This post was edited by batik on Nov 28 2009, 5:51pm)
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Eldy
Dor-Lomin
Nov 28 2009, 6:10pm
Post #5 of 5
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1. Just how similar are Mordor and Angband? I have seen Thrangodrim depicted as a volcano similar to Orodruin, although obviously bigger. Morgoth clearly has at least as much control, probably more, over his weapons than Sauron, though, not surprising what with Morgoth being a Vala and all.
Angband is an underground fortress, beneath the peaks of Thangorodrim. It's possible that Thangorodrim was volcanic, but a major difference between it and Orodruin is that Thangorodrim was (part of) Morgoth's main fortress (equivalent to the Barad-dur). Karen Wynn Fonstad in The Atlas of Middle-earth depicts Thangorodrim as a cluster of peaks rising like an island out of Anfauglith.
Mordor, on the other hand, is much larger: more like a country. It is bordered by mountain ranges and of course has Orodruin, but it is less of a cluster. I've always envisioned the Barad-dur as more artificial/constructed than Thangorodrim: a clear tower rather than mountain. I get the sense that Gorgoroth and Anfauglith were similar; but I can't think of a First Age parallel to the (semi-)fertile area of Nurnen.
2. Others have asked this last week, but if no word had otten out of Angand about this, how would anybody have known of what horrors B&L faced?
There were Elves who escaped the thralldom of Angband, though they were largely ostracized. Surely some reports, however vague, had gotten back to the free elves. There would be a lot of conjecture though.
3. All right, who gave Lú the power to do that? It wasn't her blood from Melian. Which Vala would have stepped in?
I'm not sure why it can't be her descent from Melian. Is there a quote I've missed? Even if it wasn't though, it might have something to do with her being an elf (perhaps like Glorfindel in FOTR against the Ringwraiths).
4. Is this just a Deus ex Machina plot device?
I can't think of many other plausible ways for B&L to get past Carcaroth. Besides, Luthien had been established as having magic-esque powers as early as her escape from the "treehouse". It's just part of who she is.
My cat takes after me:
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