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Beren IV
Mithlond
Nov 27 2009, 6:36am
Post #1 of 3
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Beren and Lúthien part II: 4. Meanwhile, back in Doriath
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While all of this was going on, Daeron has left and wandered into the east pining for his love lost. Melian has stopped talking to her husband. Celegorm told Thingol that he was going to marry Lúthien, and Thingol set ready to make war and sent spies, only to find out that C&C had been deposed and that Lú had disappeared again. But his spies do run into Charcaroth, who, shortly thereafter, comes south, and even comes right through Melian's Girdle.
1. All right, who would Thingol conset to allow his daughter to marry? I have to imagine he would allow somebody; had he set his heart on Daeron?
2. Considering what Lú has managed to do, and even if Thingol could conquer Nargothrond (and the Seven Sons), does he really think he could get her back by force? She has demonstrated pretty plainly that she cannot be imprisoned. Is Thingol at all concerned that he may wind up killing her? (irony intended...)
3. What kind of spies are we talking about? I normally think of Elven societies as being fairly open and free. What kind of information would these spies be collecting, how would they be collecting it, and is what they are doing really illegal?
4. Charcaroth is one wolf. Just how much damage can a single beast, no matter how fierce, do? Has he eaten whole towns and such? It would seem to me that even if he were the size of a brachiosaur, the swath of destruction he could cause would still be fairly narrow - unless magic is involved, somehow.
5. The Girdle of Melian seems awfully porous these days - first Beren, and now Charcaroth. Is Melian weakening?
6. Melian isn't talking to her husband, hoo boy. Are we talking marital problems? Is Thingol's bed cold? Might this have something to do with why her Girdle isn't working properly (like, maybe she's wearing it, instead of encircling Doriath with it...)?
This is right when B&L return. Beren tells Thingol that the Silmaril is in his hand. He shows up his left hand, opens it, and then raises his stump of a right arm. At that moment, Thingol eases, and finally relents, and allows B&L to take hand in front of her father.
7. WHy now? Does Thingol really appreciate the joke?
8. How does the stump of an arm reveal what actually happened? Why does not Thingol demand a little more explanation before relenting?
9. Assuming they weren't married already, does this mean that B&L are married now? Will they have a chance to consummate before Charcaroth shows up at the gate?
The paleobotanist is back!
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Nov 27 2009, 3:36pm
Post #2 of 3
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You answer your own questions pretty well...
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...and I agree with your conclusions. Interesting idea about Melian's girdle constricting to just her. And yes, Thingol probably hand-picked Daeron.
Regarding why Thingol caved in so suddenly, I think at this meeting it gradually dawns on him that Beren and Luthien have indeed finally married at this point, and he has already lost the battle. The things they've been through, all for love of each other, would have been just too much for flesh and blood.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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sador
Gondolin
Nov 29 2009, 8:25am
Post #3 of 3
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1. All right, who would Thingol conset to allow his daughter to marry? I have to imagine he would allow somebody; had he set his heart on Daeron?
Celegorm?
Okay, just kidding. But I'm not sure Thingol had a specific suitor in mind - Daeron is a reasonable alternative, and seems to be quite earnest in his care for her.
2. Considering what Lú has managed to do, and even if Thingol could conquer Nargothrond (and the Seven Sons), does he really think he could get her back by force? She has demonstrated pretty plainly that she cannot be imprisoned. Is Thingol at all concerned that he may wind up killing her? (irony intended...)
With Beren dead, and her being rescued from prison by her loving father - wouldn't she see the error of her ways?
3. What kind of spies are we talking about? I normally think of Elven societies as being fairly open and free. What kind of information would these spies be collecting, how would they be collecting it, and is what they are doing really illegal?
Nargothrond is rather secretive - as I guess all Noldorin societies are to an extent, after the Curse of Mandos! And I suppose some of the followers of Finarfin's sons would be glad to do anything against the haughty Feanorians.
4. Charcaroth is one wolf. Just how much damage can a single beast, no matter how fierce, do? Has he eaten whole towns and such? It would seem to me that even if he were the size of a brachiosaur, the swath of destruction he could cause would still be fairly narrow - unless magic is involved, somehow.
How much damage did Beren do in Dorthonion? But still, Morgoth dispatched Sauron against him.
5. The Girdle of Melian seems awfully porous these days - first Beren, and now Charcaroth. Is Melian weakening?
No; the powers which drive Beren and Charcaroth are stronger than her own. It happens that someone meets her match.
6. Melian isn't talking to her husband, hoo boy. Are we talking marital problems? Is Thingol's bed cold? Might this have something to do with why her Girdle isn't working properly (like, maybe she's wearing it, instead of encircling Doriath with it...)?
I do not see any reaso to suppose they are not talking. She refuses her counsel on this subject.
7. WHy now? Does Thingol really appreciate the joke?
I guess not. Beren is still bitter about his previous treatment. Why do you think the couple returned from death to Ossiriand, rather than Doriath?
8. How does the stump of an arm reveal what actually happened? Why does not Thingol demand a little more explanation before relenting?
He pities the poor cripple.
And he relents enough to ask for an explanation.
9. Assuming they weren't married already, does this mean that B&L are married now? Will they have a chance to consummate before Charcaroth shows up at the gate?
No, because Beren has only fulfilled his oath (to have a Silmaril in his hand next time he sees Thingol); but he hasn't paid the Bride price. The couple of lovers never get married in their first life.
"Forget for a while the dreadful doom of life" - Luthien.
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