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Hamfast Gamgee
Dor-Lomin
Nov 22 2009, 3:03pm
Post #1 of 8
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Chapter 19 part one - Of Beren and Luthien, 5
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So Finrod, Beren and their faithful companions, 10 of them, journey up the Narog to the falls of Irvin. As said, they take slay some Orcs and disguise themselves in their hue. But they do not stop to report their deeds as the Orcs are ordered to do and as such, Sauron is aware of them and captures them.
Sauron seems to have waylaid Finrod ex-king of Nargothrond and Beren and 10 more Elves remarkably easy here! What happened to the warrior that could take on an army of Morgoth virtually single-handed and dare the slopes of Gorgoroth? Maybe one of the Orcs of Sauron hit him with a poisoned dart and parlaysed him?
So the 12 companions, 12 again, Tolkien seems found of this number here, that is the same as the number that were Beren's companions in Dorthonion. I wonder what happens to these companions? Anyway, Sauron is unaware of who Finrod is, but perceives him to be an Elf of considerable power so interrogates him, but Finrod resists and a battle of songs takes place.
More singing! Seems to be a lot of mighty singers in Beleriand. Perhaps they should have had an X-factor style contest to see who was the best one! Mind, looking at the words spoken here, it could almost be a rap, which I'm sure wasn't invented in Tolkien's day. Ummm
Of secrets kept, strength like a tower,
And Trust unbroken, freedom, escape;
Of changing and of shifting shape, Yowl!
Oh, maybe not! Anyway, Sauron is triumphant, and finds them out, but cannot reveal their purpose. And so they are throwing into a pit, where from time to time they see the eyes of a Werewolf which devours one of their companions.
So that's what happens to their companions. Yeeech, that's horror. Stephen King eat your heart out! But it doesn't really do to be one of Beren's companions in this tale!
In the meantime, Luthien tries to flee Doriath to aid Beren. But Daeron the ministrel and Thingol imprison her in a wooden tower. But she escapes by letting her hair down and climbing along it, bewitching the guards to sleep.
A Repunzel reference here? I knew there was one
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sador
Gondolin
Nov 22 2009, 3:25pm
Post #2 of 8
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What happened to the warrior that could take on an army of Morgoth virtually single-handed and dare the slopes of Gorgoroth? Maybe one of the Orcs of Sauron hit him with a poisoned dart and parlaysed him?
No; Beren never took on an army single-handed - he managed to escape it for a few years.
Here he is challanging Sauron himself. No way he will simply get away with it.
I wonder what happens to these companions?
They are eaten.
More singing! Seems to be a lot of mighty singers in Beleriand.
Especially in this tale. Not so in others.
But it doesn't really do to be one of Beren's companions in this tale!
Well, faithful companions of heros are often the unlucky casualities. At least here it makes more sense than in Treasure Island, in which every dispensible loyal fellow (the squire's servants) is killed, while all the main characters survive. Ouch.
A Repunzel reference here? I knew there was one
Yep.
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Those wood-elves just love sleeping while on guard duty! First these, then the chief of guards in Mirkwood ('Barrels out of Bonds') - do you think Gollum's guards who sloppiloy lost him were drunk, or enchanted by a song?
"I hear now that thou wouldst barter with me. What is thy price?" - Sauron.
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Beren IV
Mithlond
Nov 22 2009, 7:40pm
Post #3 of 8
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Recalling the Music of the Ainur
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The significance of music and Art in general in Arda is obvious: the entire basis for existence of Eä is the Music of the Ainur. Performing Art performs or reperforms a portion of that Music - and, as a consequence, re-shaping reality limited only by the knowledge, skill, and ability of the performer. Sauron, naturally, knows a bit more than Finrod - Sauron is a Maia, after all, either separately present in the Timeless Halls or else a sliver of Aulë who certainly was present when the Music was sung. Finrod is just an elf, a creature of this world.
As for our twelve-man commando team, Beren never took on armies all by himself. He raided, he sabotaged, he generally made a pest of himself. How he managed to get caught here though is still a mystery. But hey, he has to fail sometime - it's up to Lú to rescue him, as she turns out to be at least as capable as her *ahem* boyfriend (*cough* husband *cough*)!
The paleobotanist is back!
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batik
Dor-Lomin
Nov 22 2009, 10:31pm
Post #4 of 8
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and Finrod fell before the throne:(
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Twelve, again! Interesting that in the last chapter it was 12 +1. Now, maybe we are one body short? Then in TH, there are 13 dwarves --being one too many which is a stated reason for Bilbo's involvement. I don't have a clue as to what Tolkien's interest, if any, in the concept of numbers may have played in all this, but I do find it interesting.
What causes the fall of Finrod? Merely the mention of the events in Valinor...simply the images/words being recalled/stated (sort of like a *spell*) or does he have some kind of emotional response to the images/words which weakens him? I find it sad that his words that invoke of sense of hope, strength, and the like (um...except for that "secrets kept" phrase) are overpowered by those referencing deeds in days long past.
Beren does seem to be one who is more successful in a solo role. I suppose when one has become accustomed to this lifestyle, being part of a group might be difficult to adapt to?
Nice description from Tolkien here---the resourcefulness of a woman when it comes to removing barriers between her and *heart's desire".
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Pryderi
Ossiriand
Nov 22 2009, 10:34pm
Post #5 of 8
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Tolkien as a rapper: Rising to the bait.
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"More singing! Seems to be a lot of mighty singers in Beleriand. Perhaps they should have had an X-factor style contest to see who was the best one! Mind, looking at the words spoken here, it could almost be a rap, which I'm sure wasn't invented in Tolkien's day."
Well I'm not an expert on "rap" but I had thought it was an oral art form that was to be performed and heard rather than to be read in print. My minor researches on Wikipedia confirm that this is the case and also confirm that its "roots" far predate Tolkien.
Actually the verses in question are published by Christopher editing his father's manuscript which claims to quote an ancient "Lay" which itself was derived from more ancient (presumably oral) sources.
I think that it is possible that in their different ways both Tolkien and accomplished rap artists are attempting to engage us in the present whilst connecting us with our past.
I hope at least some of that made sense (although on this occasion I doubt it!).
Pryderi.
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Nov 22 2009, 10:52pm
Post #6 of 8
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I think that Morgoth's song of the kinslaying caused guilt to open a chink in Finrod's magical armor, so to speak, creating a chain reaction that quickly unraveled the whole thing. Because guilt can turn into a feedback loop--the more he had the image before his eyes, the more he felt unworthy of winning, the weaker his resistence.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Nov 22 2009, 10:55pm
Post #7 of 8
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Twelve is a traditional number associated with sacred and complete groupings. Twelve tribes of Israel. Twelve apostles. Twelve astrological signs. Twelve months. Twelve hours in a day, or a night. Twelve jurors (you'd think they'd have eleven so they could ever get in a tie, but no, the ritual numbers must be maintained.)
Regarding Luthien's imprisonment, I thought they put her up in a treehouse, not a tower. The treehouse just seems much more Elvish tome.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
(This post was edited by Dreamdeer on Nov 22 2009, 10:56pm)
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Isis
Nevrast
Nov 23 2009, 7:17pm
Post #8 of 8
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breaking Finrod's concentration by bringing up something which provokes a strong emotional response which in turn weakens his focus on the matter in hand... and that's all it takes when facing a much stronger opponent. Although the concept of him feeling unworthy due to the imagery provoked by Sauron is very interesting.
This reminds me Pullman's The Subtle Knife when Will is attempting to concentrate on opening windows between worlds - there are a couple of examples of him failing because he cannot focus beyond/through his emotions.
I listened to this chapter last night when I couldn't sleep. I need to move HoME book 3 up the TBR pile as soon as I get more time for reading.
'Take now this Ring,' he said; 'for thy labours and thy cares will be heavy, but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill.'
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