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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
CG effects to make someone look younger : CGW article

Magpie
Elvenhome


Nov 19 2009, 7:02pm

Post #1 of 10 (728 views)
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CG effects to make someone look younger : CGW article Can't Post

Since there are a fair number of threads discussing whether using CG to make various LOTR actors look younger in The Hobbit would work or not, I thought this article might be interesting to some of you.

http://www.cgw.com/...-/Beauty-Supply.aspx

This gets pretty technical in respects to CG rendering, but it has some images of a CG-younger Bruce Willis as he will appear in an upcoming movie, "Surrogates".

excerpt below


Quote
Synthespians had planned to do 60 shots to help sell the idea that the people in the film are robots, until Stetson asked this studio and others to do a digital makeup test. The test was to make Willis look younger when he plays his surrogate during the first half of the film. Synthespians passed, and then picked up another 200 shots that involved de-aging Willis and polishing some of the other actors.

“They realized that if Greer is going to have a robot version in the real world living his life, he’s not going to create a 60-year-old,” says Jeff Kleiser, Synthespians founder and visual effects supervisor. “The surrogates can look however the people want. So, we made Greer’s surrogate look like a younger guy, like Willis looked in [the TV show] Moonlighting. And, we made him look consistently young in all different types of lighting environments.”

The studio started with a cyberscan of Willis’s face to create a 3D version in Autodesk’s Maya that the modelers modified by lifting skin in his chin area, smoothing wrinkles around his eyes, and shortening his ear lobes. Yannix, a studio in Thailand, tracked the camera motion and the motion of Willis’s head in each frame so the artists at Synthespians could fit the CG head onto the actor’s body. To texture the model, Synthespians’ artists projected the filmed footage of Willis onto geometry that matched his performance. Artists working in Apple’s Shake manipulated the textures as needed and then cleaned up the wrinkles and other imperfections enough to make the robotic substitute look younger but not plastic.



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damccoy
Lindon


Nov 19 2009, 9:02pm

Post #2 of 10 (483 views)
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Nice [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the link...


GaladrielTX
Dor-Lomin


Nov 20 2009, 12:12am

Post #3 of 10 (470 views)
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Willis is still an active, athletic-seeming man, isn’t he? [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting article. Willis is not quite a senior citizen, is he? I don’t imagine the way he carries his body has changed significantly in the past twenty or thirty years. I do suspect Ian Holm moves differently now than a man aged fifty or younger would move, though. Alas, those changes seem to accelerate once we hit sixty-five or seventy.

~~~~~~~~

The TORNsib formerly known as Galadriel.



nuck
Ossiriand


Nov 20 2009, 1:26am

Post #4 of 10 (472 views)
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CGI Bruce [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Interesting article. Willis is not quite a senior citizen, is he? I don’t imagine the way he carries his body has changed significantly in the past twenty or thirty years. I do suspect Ian Holm moves differently now than a man aged fifty or younger would move, though. Alas, those changes seem to accelerate once we hit sixty-five or seventy.



Also while he didn't look CGI he definitely didn't look natural. Definitely an airbrushed look about him. Technology is getting closer but it isn't there yet. He was supposed to be sort of an avatar in that film so it didn't matter, but you either make them all dubbed in or none. They aren't close enough to mix polished faces with crusty looking dwarves. GDT also doesn't prefer CGI to physcal makeup.

Ian would look like your grandpa. You would need a body double as well.


Growlithe the Grey
Ossiriand


Nov 22 2009, 10:45am

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"Science of the Movies" on Science Channel [In reply to] Can't Post

I just happened to catch some of this show the other day, and they were doing full face reconstruction using some pretty crazy advanced capture techniques. Essentially they were capturing lots of different facial expressions, including the reflectivity, light transmission and stuff like that of the face. By inputting all these gobs of data into the computer, they could recreate a stunning - and I mean stunning - facsimile of a person. The computer would search for an expression that was close to the expression that was desired, and use the facial textures (right down to the pores on the skin), image map, etc to "skin" the 3-D model. I honestly would challenge someone to tell the difference. If you didn't see the show, I can imagine you're reading this going "yeah, sure," but I'm telling you, it was unbelievable.

What does that mean for the future of facially de-aging an actor for a performance? I'm not sure. But truthfully, I don't think they're that far off from producing a result that doesn't look CGI. Beyond just creating a CGI face that looks real, there are other issues to deal with such as lighting conditions on set that are difficult to match in the computer, but I could still see it happening some day. But in the present, I think that no matter how hard you try, there's just something that's going to look overly fake about a digitally youthified actor.

As far as the Hobbit goes, I just don't want to see it used. Ian Holm would probably be the only actor they'd consider doing someting like this with, but besides the fact that he probably doesn't want to go through the rigors of filming the Hobbit at his age, I just don't care that much. I just want them to pick a good actor. He doesn't even have to look like Ian Holm in the least. I can deal with a lack of continuity in that regard.


(This post was edited by Growlithe the Grey on Nov 22 2009, 10:48am)


Sunflower
Doriath

Nov 23 2009, 2:43am

Post #6 of 10 (448 views)
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What is really interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

and far more challenging, though, is how they'd go about making, say, a "well-preserved" actor like Viggo at 50 look, say, 27.Laugh
You can do all you want to the face and skin, but how you go about digitally removing that faint bulge of skin around the neck and jawline, suggesting the fainest beginnings of a double chin. I don't care how good you look at 50, all older people have that, it's a sign of age. Body weight has nothing to do with it, nor phyical fitness...some parts of the body just fill out. *Nobody* preserves a chiselled jawline.
Even the still-skeletal Doug Jones, at 49, has a "faint jowl" under his chin.


(This post was edited by Sunflower on Nov 23 2009, 2:45am)


Voorhas
Menegroth


Nov 23 2009, 4:14pm

Post #7 of 10 (366 views)
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Marlene Dietrich used tape... [In reply to] Can't Post

...a low-tech solution, as long as it's strong enough (and the camera doesn't pull in too close)!


Sunflower
Doriath

Nov 24 2009, 5:18am

Post #8 of 10 (357 views)
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That's the problem though... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo will require a lot of close-ups...at every age.


Lunamoth
Nargothrond


Nov 24 2009, 6:48pm

Post #9 of 10 (346 views)
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Somehow I don't think... [In reply to] Can't Post

...there's enough tape to make Ian Holm look like he isn't 78 years old. Or Viggo look like he's 27. Laugh


Luna's LJ
Tales of Elewir

(This post was edited by Lunamoth on Nov 24 2009, 6:49pm)


Oscarilbo
Menegroth


Nov 24 2009, 10:30pm

Post #10 of 10 (370 views)
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well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I must be used at a certain extent, but not on Bilbo precisely but on other characters just as Elrond and Galadriel (if she appears), (I don`t think Gandalf need this because in LOTR they did Sir. Ian McKellen older than he really was) I think age will show up being 10 years now from the LOTR shooting.

"The World is Changed, I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air"

 
 

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