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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
James Cameron quote on Hobbit design.

Buchanicus
Lorien


Aug 3 2009, 11:42pm

Post #1 of 24 (4166 views)
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James Cameron quote on Hobbit design. Can't Post

Ainitcoolnews posted an interview Quint did with james Cameron concerning Avatar. In it there is a small blurb about design on The Hobbit. It's not much, but I thought it was cool...

Before the recorder was turned on there was some small talk about how awesome Weta is. Cameron mentioned that he’d seen some of their design work on THE HOBBIT (his exact words were that it was “the s***”) and that it really is the original trilogy world created by Weta and Peter Jackson, but with a slight influence of Guillermo del Toro’s style. Cameron said the two styles mix perfectly together.

Of course that's the only Hobbit tidibit, but heres the whole artcile if you are interested...

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/41920

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 4 2009, 12:31am

Post #2 of 24 (3470 views)
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*excitement* [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm really looking forward to seeing the result of the PJ/Weta/Guillermo creative cross-pollination. :)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


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Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Aug 4 2009, 1:12pm

Post #3 of 24 (3484 views)
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Don't forget Cameron's and Spielberg's [In reply to] Can't Post

They're working so close with WETA and Jackson that something most certainly will ultimately be influenced by them. Not bad, huh? Wink

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!


squire
Half-elven


Aug 4 2009, 3:04pm

Post #4 of 24 (3434 views)
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Not bad at all [In reply to] Can't Post

But since Cameron is working with WETA (on his film Avatar) there is no reason to take his judgement of WETA's Hobbit designs as anything but a matter of self-interest. Not that I doubt he was impressed by what he saw - I too think WETA does about as good work as any effects shop in the world. But there are degrees of credibility we must assign to criticism.

Put it this way: can you conceive of Cameron saying that the Hobbit designs are derivative and imaginatively confused because of the conflict between Jackson's and Del Toro's visions; or substandard compared to past work because Richard Taylor and his team have gotten a bit lazy and/or overfunded? Either might well be true, but it would be against his own interests to say so in public; he can only praise the work, so his praise has less meaning than another's might. Rather than listen to a Hollywood producer promote his own associates' work, I will wait to see the Hobbit designs before I get excited - which I do hope to.



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Sunflower
Valinor

Aug 4 2009, 3:43pm

Post #5 of 24 (3379 views)
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On what basis [In reply to] Can't Post

would you make those assumptions, Squire, either about the quality of WETA's work, or Richard Taylor's character? Wow--I am impressed. You seem to think that people in NZ are like the minions of Lucasfilm...!

Even if (in the unlikely event) such things have shown in pastwork this decade, they are returning to a Tolkien adaptation, and will pull out all the stops.

It seems to me, that between your comments on a TH Prologue and this, you are sharpening your knives and setting out to be Skeptic #1. Putting some I could name to shame. Just sit back for a moment and appreciate what Del Toro and his team are up against, and give the man a break for now?Tongue

Logistically, PJ may have had the harder job with LOTR, but in mamy ways, Del Toro has the hardest job of all, and I sense that TH will not be as universally loved by fans. I only hope the global media (and the Academy) don't pick up on this.
The man needs all the support he can get right now.


Magpie
Immortal


Aug 4 2009, 5:18pm

Post #6 of 24 (3354 views)
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What asumptions did Squire make? [In reply to] Can't Post

All I heard him say is that it's likely Cameron would *not* voice any negative opinion so as to not jeopardize his current working relationship with Weta. That seems believable.

He did not say Cameron *thought* anything negative... only that we can't assume he hasn't be any lack of his saying so.

He also did not say anything negative about Weta or Richard Taylor unless you're extrapolating that Squire is asserting that Cameron wouldn't say anything negative because he's afraid Taylor would 'get mad'. But I don't think that's what Squire was asserting and in most worlds I run in, no one is quick to say anything bad about someone (publicly especially) they're working with because it just causes unpleasantness and it's unprofessional. If we chose our words carefully and bite our tongue now and then, it's usually for that reason rather than we think someone else is a bad guy and will retaliate.

And I didn't get any sense that Squire was asserting any of the things that he said as 'Can you imagine....?'. He was just providing an example. In fact, he said, "
I too think WETA does about as good work as any effects shop in the world."





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farmer maggot
Rivendell

Aug 4 2009, 6:52pm

Post #7 of 24 (3338 views)
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Well I certainly did detect some real lack of generosity in the comments. [In reply to] Can't Post

There seems to be more than a degree of automatic cynicism on one side and some matching over sensitivity on the other!

It is surely perfectly reasonable for Magpie to assert that Cameron's choice to work with Weta might make him pre-inclined to like the apprioach to The Hobbit. Therefore perfectly reasonable to express a reserved judgement. However, to make the accusation that Cameron's relationship would make him forcefully support a judgement that he does not believe in seems ungenerous and somewhat insulting to a major film-maker without any supporting evidence. At the least he could have easily found an excuse to express no opinion if he wished. Why is it necessary to automatically impune someones integrity because they offer an opinion rather than none?

In the other direction I am sure that Weta, GDT, PJ et al are fully aware of fan sensitivity to all things Hobbit and know some skepticism will need to be dealt with. I do not think they expect anyone to hide their concerns. All the answers I have seen from GDT to queries on this board have been evidence of a real generosity and integrity from that direction.

In the end we will see the truth of the result.


greendragon
Sr. Staff


Aug 4 2009, 7:27pm

Post #8 of 24 (3403 views)
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MrCere and I talked briefly to Mike Mignola about Hobbit designs... [In reply to] Can't Post

Mr Mignola (known for his 'Hellboy' artwork - brilliant stuff) spent a couple of weeks in NZ drawing 'stuff' (mostly goblins/orcs, I believe) to be thrown into the melting pot for ideas for the Hobbit movie. He commented on how big a production team it is (and, as MrCere points out in his excellent article on the home page, it isn't even green lit yet!), so I asked him, 'Is it the biggest movie you've worked on?'

'Oh yes,' came his reply. 'It makes 'Hellboy' look like a student production.'

Wow. Can't wait to start seeing a few 'teasers' as this ball really gets rolling...

'There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of my fridge...'

'You never know what will happen next, when once you get mixed up with TORnsibs and their friends.'


Tim
Tol Eressea


Aug 4 2009, 8:18pm

Post #9 of 24 (3386 views)
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I Respect Cameron's opinion... [In reply to] Can't Post

... based on his previous works. The Abyss, Aliens and Terminator 2 immediately come to mind. I listened to the commentaries and have read enough press to understand that the effects in these movies were "driven" by Cameron to be the best they could be. He's a man that pushes his people to do the best they can and deliver what he wants. If Cameron says the effects are awesome, that bodes well. Everyone has different tastes of course, but I've seen enough of his work to be assured that Cameron's tastes and mine (in special effects) are alike.

I'm not a doubter anyway when it comes to WETA. They blew my socks off with LOTR so I expect more of the same with The Hobbit.

I have a very sexy learning disability.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Aug 4 2009, 8:36pm

Post #10 of 24 (3319 views)
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Not necessarily [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But since Cameron is working with WETA (on his film Avatar) there is no reason to take his judgement of WETA's Hobbit designs as anything but a matter of self-interest. Not that I doubt he was impressed by what he saw - I too think WETA does about as good work as any effects shop in the world. But there are degrees of credibility we must assign to criticism.

If you don't doubt he was impressed, then it's not just a matter of self-interest. If it WERE just a matter of self-interest then you could say Cameron is laying it on thick (lying) so as not to offend anyone he's worked with before. If you really believe he was impressed then cynicism regarding his motives doesn't come into play at all.

Put it this way: can you conceive of Cameron saying that the Hobbit designs are derivative and imaginatively confused because of the conflict between Jackson's and Del Toro's visions; or substandard compared to past work because Richard Taylor and his team have gotten a bit lazy and/or overfunded? Either might well be true, but it would be against his own interests to say so in public; he can only praise the work, so his praise has less meaning than another's might. Rather than listen to a Hollywood producer promote his own associates' work, I will wait to see the Hobbit designs before I get excited - which I do hope to.

Yes, I can conceive of Cameron saying the Hobbit designs are derivative and imaginatively confused - most likely in private - and staying mute on the subject in public (or politely dodging the question in any number of ways). According to many accounts of people who worked with him - he's not one to compliment someone if he doesn't think they deserve it. Since he could easily not say anything about any of this in public he doesn't have to ONLY praise the work. :-)

I certainly respect your right to reserve judgment, but I'm not so reserved as I explain in my previous post.



I have a very sexy learning disability.


Buchanicus
Lorien


Aug 5 2009, 9:30pm

Post #11 of 24 (3279 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I though it was a cool blurb. I know JC and Pj are freinds, but I don't think Cameron would make casual statements on another films design unless he was impressed.

Mainly though, Cameron brought up what he thought about The Hobbit designs during the very short amount of time he had to talk about his project that is coming out and that he has been working on and thinking about for approx the last 15 years. Make no mistake this was time to talk about and promote Avatar, and secondly to promote the new technolgy that film brings. regardless of what we think his intentions were, i though it was exciting to bring up The Hobbit and say what he did concerning the pre-production.

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 10 2009, 2:54pm

Post #12 of 24 (3226 views)
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*twitch* Omg! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll bet he was blown away by the creative energy!!! WOW! He must have had some stories to tell when he got home ;)

A "student production" eh? ;) *slaver, slurp* I can't WAIT!!!!

I'm SO glad you two got to talk with him! Hopefully, he'll peek in to TORn once in a while and feast on the energy here, too!!



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



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Sharky
Bree


Aug 10 2009, 5:05pm

Post #13 of 24 (3498 views)
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The pre-LOTK look.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm looking forward to seeing how they design an 'earlier' Hobbiton!

And here we find you, smoking and...feasting!


Guillermo
Rivendell

Aug 18 2009, 12:27am

Post #14 of 24 (5600 views)
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Design- [In reply to] Can't Post

For what is worth: Jim and I have been dear friends for over 17 years now. But that has not prevented us being very critical of each other's work through the years. Just so you know- he would NEVER declare anything like this if he didn't feel that way. What he saw were very strong designs and maquettes: GOBLINS and their environment, SMAUG (fully designed but without final color / texture), SPIDERS OF MIRKWOOD, MIRKWOOD, STONE TROLLS, WARGS, IRON HILL DWARVES, GUNDABAD ARMY, THRANDUILL'S THRONE ROOM etc, etc and he was delighted. This for me, as his friend, and as a filmmaker, meant a whole lot. You will / may disagree at the end of the process but, I assure you, this IS his opinion.

All the Best

Guillermo


Altaira
Superuser


Aug 18 2009, 1:31am

Post #15 of 24 (3174 views)
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*tries to supress a squeee - and fails* [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Guillermo: What he saw were very strong designs and maquettes: GOBLINS and their environment, SMAUG (fully designed but without final color / texture), SPIDERS OF MIRKWOOD, MIRKWOOD, STONE TROLLS, WARGS, IRON HILL DWARVES, GUNDABAD ARMY, THRANDUILL'S THRONE ROOM etc, etc



I quite literally want to cry for joy that wonderful, beloved parts of Middle-earth, are being brought to life once again. It's quite a list! And, it's so exciting that some of the things are so far along. There's a long way to go yet, to be sure, but it's awesome that so many creative people are already producing and perfecting these things!

Now, excuse me while I go find a paper bag to breath into! Laugh


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



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Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 18 2009, 1:57am

Post #16 of 24 (3156 views)
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Gundabad Army? [In reply to] Can't Post

Is this a created name or has it been way too long since I read The Hobbit? (The name isn't familiar to me.)

I love hearing the progress you're making in pre-production, and I'm really looking forward to seeing the 'making of' DVDs, books and what-have-you so you can take us through these design stages in detail. :)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 18 2009, 2:26am

Post #17 of 24 (3177 views)
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Gundabad [In reply to] Can't Post

Gundabad is mentioned both in The Hobbit and in Appendix A of LOTR. It is a mountain in the north where the Goblins/Orcs had their capital. It is from there that the Goblin army that participates in the battle of five armies came from, after they gathered from all of their cities, colonies and strongholds.

In Appendix A, after Thror is killed in Moria, the Dwarves under Thrain "assailed and sacked one by one all the strongholds of the Orcs that they could find from Gundabad to Gladden."

You can see it at the very top left corner of the Wilderland map from The Hobbit. It also appears on the LOTR map at the north of the Misty Mountains, southwest of the mountains of Angmar.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 18 2009, 2:38am

Post #18 of 24 (3117 views)
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Although [In reply to] Can't Post

"Gundabad Army" sounds familiar, I would have to scan the Hobbit to discern if it was from there.

In the meantime, from a listing on Tolkien Gateway:

Quote

"Mount Gundabad was a mountain at the northern end of the Misty Mountains...
[It] was the rally point of the armies of Bolg the Goblin chieftain, who would later go on to fight the Battle of Five Armies."

I
t would make sense to refer to the Goblin host as the Gundabad Army ;)

However, it also says in the listing that Mount Gundabad was a sacred site to the Dwarves before it was claimed as a stronghold/capital by the Orcs of Angmar who held it, more or less, until the BoFA.



http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Mount_Gundabad


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 18 2009, 2:41am

Post #19 of 24 (3061 views)
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Thank you both! / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Aug 18 2009, 2:49am

Post #20 of 24 (3116 views)
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HoMe XII also. [In reply to] Can't Post

Though I'm sure you knew that, and didn't mention it because that information is not available to the filmmakers.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 18 2009, 3:30am

Post #21 of 24 (3095 views)
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True, in the "Of Dwarves and Men" [In reply to] Can't Post

That essay really has a lot of fascinating information. It is from there that the information that Sir Dennis posted from Tolkien Gateway about the mountain being a sacred site to the Dwarves before it was taken by the Orcs comes from.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 18 2009, 6:57am

Post #22 of 24 (3312 views)
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*faints* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"Crows and Gibbets! What is the House of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek and their brats roll around on the floor with their dogs! You are but a lesser son of greater sires."


Garfeimao
Rohan


Aug 27 2009, 4:47pm

Post #23 of 24 (3049 views)
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We just saw blurry smudges [In reply to] Can't Post

When Richard gave his presentation at comic con, he showed some pics of you all in the WETA design rooms, and there all these blurred out images that were some of these maquettes. Now I know what we missed.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One

Cruise to Middle earth

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Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Sep 6 2009, 5:41pm

Post #24 of 24 (3017 views)
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Ok... like 3 weeks late... [In reply to] Can't Post

But I just saw the post...it's quite exciting to know all that design is already in place...

Can't wait to see the first tidbits!

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!

 
 

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