|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
sador
Gondolin
Aug 7 2009, 11:03am
Post #1 of 16
(1209 views)
Shortcut
|
|
What was Bilbo's finest moment?
|
Can't Post
|
|
As you know, we are about to finish the discussion of The Hobbit in the Reading Room.
A major theme (if not indeed The major theme) of the book is Bilbo's progress from the grocer-like provincial hobbit to something else (what?).
What do you think are the most important episodes in this evolution? What are the iconic moments in which Bilbo really shines, which you would never forgive PJ and GdT if they left out of the coming movies?
I haven't put in the listed moments in which Bilbo was relatively passive, like the finding of the Ring and even seeing the Door in the mountainside. Was that wrong? Vote for 'other'!
I suppose many are likely to have a few favourites. Let's limit everyone's choices to three.
And of course - what are the reason for your preferences?
|
|
|
sador
Gondolin
Aug 7 2009, 2:52pm
Post #2 of 16
(855 views)
Shortcut
|
Well, my first choice is his returning back to Bombur after giving Bard the Arkenstone. This is the best example of doing the right thing against his own self-interest, and the only real claim (IMHO, of course) to moral superiority over the dwarves. And as if in a fairy-tale, he is immediately rewarded - by the reappearing of Gandalf!
Apart of that, I chose the end of the book, with Bilbo's accepting that as very fine a person he is, but still he is only one little person in the world. Bilbo has learned wisdom, and humility.
But once I chose humility, which I've recently argued was one of the two great virtues The Hobbit educates to, I also felt I should choose the high moment of the other great virtue - pity. So my third choice was the sparong of Gollum.
What do you choose, amd why?
|
|
|
Woodyend
Mithlond
Aug 7 2009, 8:32pm
Post #3 of 16
(764 views)
Shortcut
|
Standing up for hobbits, and accepting the job. His life changed forever when he stepped out his door.
|
|
|
Curious
Gondolin
Aug 7 2009, 10:08pm
Post #4 of 16
(757 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I, too, will vote for Giving Bard the Arkenstone.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
This was the final test of Bilbo as Trickster; could he trick the folks who brought him there? It was also a final test of Bilbo's ability to do what he thought was right, without regard for what others thought. And that, I judge, is the overriding theme of The Hobbit -- Bilbo's transformation into someone who is happy doing what he judges is right, even if his neighbors or companions all want him to do something else.
Ironically, this is an action readers have questioned, but perhaps it was important that this was not an easy decision, or an obvious one, even to the readers. No one influenced this decision -- it was Bilbo's alone. And there are good faith arguments against what Bilbo did -- after all, in the end it had little effect on the outcome of the story. It was the goblins who united the good guys, not Bilbo's actions. And the Arkenstone was not Bilbo's to give.
But as an apprentice Burglar or Trickster, it was Bilbo's masterpiece, and Gandalf, the Master Trickster who mentored him, acknowledged it as such.
|
|
|
MrCere
Sr. Staff
Aug 8 2009, 1:45am
Post #5 of 16
(789 views)
Shortcut
|
Excelling polling. Maybe it should even go on TORn main? Objections?
|
|
|
silneldor
Gondolin
Aug 8 2009, 1:04pm
Post #6 of 16
(762 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I think there are two elements to consider
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
at the moment upon deciding this. There are the pure moral choices that do not involve seen repercussions and the choices of pure guts. I don't why exactly i chose bilbo's saving of gollum. Perhaps it is because of the dominance and beauty of his gentle heart. It is what saved him in the end from the 'black reach' i can call it of the ring with time.
'A sudden understanding, a pity mixed with horror, welled up in Bilbo's heart: a glimpse of endless days without light or hope of betterment,....'
But the arkenstone debacle took real deep down courage. It is a sign of his adamantcy to do what his heart tells him. He is able to overcome his fear to follow his heart.
Another such mark of courage being so very alone is when he had this thought:
'He still wandered on, out of the little high valley, over its edge, and down the slopes beyond; but all the while a very uncomfortable thought was growing inside him. He wondered whether he ought not, now he had the magic ring, to go back into the horrible horrible, tunnels and look for his friends. He had just made up his mind that it was his duty, that he must turn back....'
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 8 2009, 9:17pm
Post #7 of 16
(746 views)
Shortcut
|
They're all fine moments, for various reasons. But delivering the Arkenstone to Bard showed that Bilbo was capable of making sudden decisions, even it he didn't consciously know why (picking up the Arkenstone and hiding it), and making a moral decision in order to try to end a conflict, and making a plan of delivery which did not cause harm to any Dwarf.
The sparing of Gollum, was, of course, of utmost importance in LotR, as his pity made him slow to succumb to the Ring's power, and allowed Gollum to be instrumental in the Ring's detstruction. I think it is not possible to look at the "Riddles in the Dark" chapter from a strictly non-LotR viewpoint, since that chapter was severely altered to make it consistent with LotR. The sparing of Gollum did not occur in the original version (as that Gollum politely showed Bilbo the way out).
My third choice was Bilbo's first trip down the tunnel towards Smaug: "It was at this point [hearing Smaug and seeing the glow] that Bilbo stopped. Going on from there was the bravest thing he ever did."
|
|
|
silneldor
Gondolin
Aug 9 2009, 1:35am
Post #8 of 16
(731 views)
Shortcut
|
to the aspect of his wisdom and humility too, which is one with his gentle heart. My Eru, we are talking about Tolkien here. HIS very nature.
It is very hard to choose from all there is. I think in the end it is not necessary. Really it is embracing the body of them as one that makes Bilbo or Tolkien or the Hobbit so exquisite.
|
|
|
sador
Gondolin
Aug 9 2009, 5:55am
Post #9 of 16
(678 views)
Shortcut
|
Of course, I have no objection on my side.
Thank you!
|
|
|
sador
Gondolin
Aug 9 2009, 6:02am
Post #10 of 16
(676 views)
Shortcut
|
I was thinking of adding this moment too, but I didn't want to have too many options. Perhaps I shoiuld have?
But thankfully, this making up his mind resulted in no action; and each of the factor involved in it has another, better case - although the combination is truly unique!
And personally, I see this decision (even if it resulted in nothing) as leading to what I think is Bilbo's greatest moment - his returning to Bombur, being both courageous and a showing of his sense of moral responsibility.
|
|
|
sador
Gondolin
Aug 9 2009, 6:07am
Post #11 of 16
(683 views)
Shortcut
|
Delivering the Arkenstone in itself could be a sign of breaking down by the pressure of the siege, or by the temptation of "food and drink and cheer", or hoping for a better chance to get home, or even just being fed up with Thorin and deciding to betray him (to say nothing of plain cowardice).
So I think that the returning to Bombur is essential - it is what makes Bilbo's plan a truly moral decision.
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 9 2009, 12:52pm
Post #12 of 16
(686 views)
Shortcut
|
Now that's true enough! 
|
|
|
Curious
Gondolin
Aug 9 2009, 2:09pm
Post #13 of 16
(729 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Sparing Gollum is much more significant in hindsight,
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
when we read The Hobbit as a prequel to LotR. Without LotR, it would not be the most significant moment in The Hobbit.
|
|
|
Loresilme
Doriath
Aug 14 2009, 3:56pm
Post #14 of 16
(647 views)
Shortcut
|
|
A combination of giving Bard the Arkenstone & then returning himself
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
knowing that he would be with the Dwarves when it was eventually discovered that he was the one who had given it away.
|
|
|
Lossefalme
Mithlond
Aug 21 2009, 3:22pm
Post #15 of 16
(695 views)
Shortcut
|
How interesting! Anyway, I tried to limit myself to one moment, which wasn't easy. My top three were naming Sting, giving Bard the Arkenstone, and sparing Gollum. Ultimately I chose sparing Gollum because beginning his time as Ring-bearer with an act of conscience and showing mercy ultimately set us on the path to the destruction of the One Ring and of Sauron. As Gandalf tells us, "the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many," (FotR, Book 1, Chapter 2), refering to the fact that he believed that Gollum still had a role to play in the fate of the Ring, and he certainly did! Without Gollum, things could have, and probably would have, been very different!
|
|
|
macfalk
Doriath
Jan 25 2010, 4:17pm
Post #16 of 16
(643 views)
Shortcut
|
Is his finest moment, and also the most important moment in the entire story
|
|
|
|
|
