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weaver
Gondolin
Jul 7 2009, 7:28am
Post #1 of 18
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A Thief in the Night -- Part 1
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I am pleased to be your discussion leader this week. As I’ve not be able to participate much over the last few months, I hope what I offer will fit with the way the conversation has evolved. I also apologize for a later than hoped for start – RL did not cooperate today.
Ok, on to the discussion:
This is the shortest chapter in the book!
Because of this, it makes it easier to look at it as a whole, so before we take it apart, I thought I’d focus on the big picture.
Nerdanel_50 was a worthy leader of this chapter in the 2004 Hobbit discussion; here is an edited version of her summary of this chapter (thanks to NEB):
"This chapter opens with Thorin declaring that he would be avenged upon anyone who withheld the Arkenstone from him, not knowing that Bilbo already had it hidden in his baggage.
When Roäc's news that Dain and 500 sturdy dwarves are on their way to stand by their fellow dwarves, ready to fight their way through the surrounding armies, if necessary, firms Thorin's resolve to starve through the winter rather than giving up any treasure under duress, Bilbo decides he's had enough of fairy tale adventure. He smoothly talks his way past Bombur (not a difficult task) and sets off for some straight talk with Bard, the least legendary creature he's met in weeks, and the only one who has demonstrated any sense.
Although he employs his magic ring and hard-won daredevil skills to reach Bard in the beseigers' camp, once there he is all business. In an exquisitely comic episode, clad in his tattered jacket and mithril weskit and armed with a waterproof, if not iron-clad, contract, Bilbo presents Bard with the legendary Arkenstone for the very unlegendary purpose of increasing Bard's bargaining power with Thorin. He then returns to the beseiged dwarves, braving Thorin's rage, because it is the right thing to do."
I will add to this that at the end of the chapter, Gandalf reappears, compliments Bilbo on his actions, and implies that after some unpleasant times ahead, Bilbo “may” come out okay in the end.
Questions:
1. This chapter has Bilbo start out from and return to the same place. Does that make it a mini-“there and back again” tale?
2. Along these same lines, this chapter is also a rather self-contained episode – does it function as a “play within a play?”
3. What about the Chapter Title? Does it have any Biblical significance, since this phrase is used to describe the way that God or Christ will arrive to judge people?
4. Based on his actions in this chapter, is Bilbo a thief?
Weaver
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Curious
Gondolin
Jul 7 2009, 2:01pm
Post #2 of 18
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1. This chapter has Bilbo start out from and return to the same place. Does that make it a mini-“there and back again” tale?
Bilbo also starts out from and returns to the same place in "Inside Information." I don't see that as significant symbolism in either chapter. They are two chapters in which Bilbo leaves the dwarves for his own adventure, but he also does that in "Riddles in the Dark," "Flies and Spiders," and, to some extent, "Barrels Out of Bounds." Returning to the same place is not quite the same as returning home.
2. Along these same lines, this chapter is also a rather self-contained episode – does it function as a “play within a play?”
I don't see that either, since it has little significance without the context of the chapters before and after. In general, The Hobbit tends to be episodic, but if I were looking for a "play within a play" I would look to the earlier chapters, like the adventure with the trolls or Gollum. Or perhaps I would look to Fire and Water, because Bard is introduced in the same chapter where he is the hero.
3. What about the Chapter Title? Does it have any Biblical significance, since this phrase is used to describe the way that God or Christ will arrive to judge people?
Bilbo is not the second coming of Christ! But the title might hint that he is something more than an ordinary thief.
4. Based on his actions in this chapter, is Bilbo a thief?
Sure, but so was Robin Hood. So was Gandalf, when he stole into Dol Guldur and stole out again with Thrain's map and key. So was Frodo, when he stole Sauron's Ring and then stole into Mordor to unmake it.
Bilbo can technically justify his actions, since he is willing to give up his fourteenth share. But even if he is within the letter of his agreement, there's no question that he has violated Thorin's trust. On the other hand, in my mind and Gandalf's, there's no question that Thorin deserved this one last trick from the Trickster he hired. And in the end Thorin seems to think so as well, or at least forgives Bilbo freely.
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Jul 7 2009, 2:06pm
Post #3 of 18
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1. This chapter has Bilbo start out from and return to the same place. Does that make it a mini-“there and back again” tale?
That's a nice idea! This isn't the comfortable and safe "back again" that the book title implies though. This is Bilbo showing great courage and commitment in going back to the Dwarves after he "betrays" them, rather than staying safely with the Men and Elves.
2. Along these same lines, this chapter is also a rather self-contained episode – does it function as a “play within a play?”
This chapter reminds me of another self-contained episode, the meeting with Gollum, in that Bilbo must handle a difficult situation alone, and must make an important moral choice. This time, though, he goes into that situation deliberately.
3. What about the Chapter Title? Does it have any Biblical significance, since this phrase is used to describe the way that God or Christ will arrive to judge people?
I doubt it. As a phrase, it seems to me like a common expression first, and a Biblical expression (chosen by the translator for its very ordinariness, which is the point of the Bible reference) second. And Bilbo doesn't really seem to be symbolizing death or the last judgement here. Perhaps Tolkien may have chosen the phrase because of the sense of familiarity it has through the Bible quote though. The Bible and Shakespeare are both often mined for resonant phrases without intending any direct reference to the original source.
4. Based on his actions in this chapter, is Bilbo a thief?
As we've noticed in other parts of the story, it depends whose point of view you are looking from. He's definitely a thief from Thorin's point of view, as Bilbo is uneasily aware. Yet the Elvenking looks at Bilbo with admiration for what he's done. I think the very fact that Bilbo goes "back again" to his friends the Dwarves, knowing how his actions will look to them, is what redeems Bilbo from the charge of being a thief in the end - although the Dwarves of all people can hardly complain that Bilbo has turned out to be a "burglar" since that's what they assumed he was all along!
They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled, the sigh and murmur of the Sea
upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
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sador
Gondolin
Jul 7 2009, 3:06pm
Post #4 of 18
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1. This chapter has Bilbo start out from and return to the same place. Does that make it a mini-“there and back again” tale?
No.
Epecially as I am more impressed with the "back again" than the "there" part - more of which next week.
2. Along these same lines, this chapter is also a rather self-contained episode – does it function as a “play within a play?”
Not at all.
In the drama of the treasure, and the aftermath of Smaug's fall, it is a classical third act according to Freytag's Dramatic_structure analysis: It is a climax, and a twist.
Did you ever notice that chapters 14-18 follow the classical model?
3. What about the Chapter Title? Does it have any Biblical significance, since this phrase is used to describe the way that God or Christ will arrive to judge people?
Based on your question, I Googled for the New Testament reference; I always assumed it refered to Obadjah 1:5.
I'll refrain from answering this one - until I read the original in context.
4. Based on his actions in this chapter, is Bilbo a thief?
Well, I hate self-promoting, but I've raised this question three weeks ago; especially in my rambling between questions 7 and 8.
In a nutshell, yes, Bilbo is a thief - and the most he can attain is the strnage title of "honest thief", which both Thorin and the Elvenking seem to apply in chapter 18.
"Such a fool deserves to starve." - Bard.
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Curious
Gondolin
Jul 7 2009, 3:53pm
Post #5 of 18
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The death of Smaug is exposition?
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In the drama of the treasure, and the aftermath of Smaug's fall, it is a classical third act according to Freytag's Dramatic_structure analysis: It is a climax, and a twist.
Did you ever notice that chapters 14-18 follow the classical model?
Okay, I'm assuming the model begins in the last half of Chapter 14, after Smaug's death.
But is Bilbo's gift of the Arkenstone the climax? It seems to me that the Battle of Five Armies is the climax, and also the twist -- i.e., the tension was rising between dwarves and elves and humans, Bilbo is on the verge of dissolving the tension, at least temporarily -- and then the goblins attack.
Note, however, that the book as a whole does not follow this structure. We have a series of episodic adventures, then a few chapters leading up to the death of Smaug as the climax, and then, strangely, we have a whole other drama, all of which takes place after the death of Smaug, and a battle which almost overshadows the death of Smaug.
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Jul 8 2009, 1:08am
Post #6 of 18
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The scriptural context, for those who don't know, is that Jesus warns that his second coming will come unexpectedly, "Like a thief in the night", and only those who are always on the alert for God's will anyway will be ready. So, although Bilbo is no Christ figure, he does act in an unexpected way on behalf of justice, and Thorin isn't ready for it.
And, as Tolkien indirectly points out, Jesus does liken himself to a thief! So that sets some groundwork for ethical thievery.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Tolkien Forever
Mithlond
Jul 8 2009, 1:27am
Post #7 of 18
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That the day should overtake you like a theif in the night......
Nobody ever seems to remember that part of the scripture.
Anyhow, on to the questions......
1. This chapter has Bilbo start out from and return to the same place. Does that make it a mini-“there and back again” tale?
That certainly seems like a stretch to me.
2. Along these same lines, this chapter is also a rather self-contained episode – does it function as a “play within a play?”
No, it's a chapter in a book.
3. What about the Chapter Title? Does it have any Biblical significance, since this phrase is used to describe the way that God or Christ will arrive to judge people?
Considering Tolkien, it's certainly inspired by the biblical phrase, but as for 'biblical signifigance', I don't see anything but a thief (Bilbo) who had to sneak out at the most opportune time (the night). A thief in the day is very likely to be seen by the other Dwarves.
4. Based on his actions in this chapter, is Bilbo a thief?
Well, he stole the Arkenstone & gave it away.
I guess the term burgaler oe thief finally fits.
The Ultimate Tolkien Trivia Quiz: http://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/story.php?title=so-you-want-to-be-tolkien-geek
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batik
Dor-Lomin
Jul 8 2009, 4:53am
Post #8 of 18
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1. This chapter has Bilbo start out from and return to the same place. Does that make it a mini-“there and back again” tale?
No, not under the assumption that "back"=home, anyhow. But taken as Bilbo doing something "out of the norm" then returning to his "usual" Hobbit self, maybe.
2. Along these same lines, this chapter is also a rather self-contained episode – does it function as a “play within a play?”
Doesn't a play within a play function as a means to summarize or add insight/another angle to the existing drama of the "main" story?
3. What about the Chapter Title? Does it have any Biblical significance, since this phrase is used to describe the way that God or Christ will arrive to judge people?
Or could it just be a 'sudden/unexpected' event?
4. Based on his actions in this chapter, is Bilbo a thief?
Well, he did take something that did not belong to him, right?
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sador
Gondolin
Jul 8 2009, 7:02am
Post #9 of 18
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As you yourself mentioned before, in is when all of a sudden we first meet Bard. Bard is a hero (or even the hero) of those five chapters, and his talk with the other Lake-town Men is clearly an exposition. Smaug actual attack is an occasion of his rising to prominence, like the war of the Seven against Thebes is an exposition to Antigone.
"Such a fool deserves to starve." - Bard.
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Curious
Gondolin
Jul 8 2009, 10:50am
Post #10 of 18
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Yes, our introduction to Bard is exposition.
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But the death of Smaug is not.
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 8 2009, 4:48pm
Post #11 of 18
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That's how Rateliff titles this chapter in HoH, noting that Tolkien originally did not title this chapter, instead he made a notation in a margin of his continuous writing showing where the chapter break should be.
The title does emphasize Bilbo's thievery: he truly did have no claim to the Arkenstone, which is why he is becoming guilt-ridden with having taken it. However: Bilbo was hired as a Burglar, and nowhere did Thorin specify what he could or could not "burgle". So one might say that taking the Arkenstone is within his contract.
So why "Thief"? Because Bilbo is "stealing away" from the Dwarves in order to commit an act of seeming disloyalty.
And like FFH, I do like the idea that this is a mini-"there and back" story! Bilbo goes on a quest to both lose something (Arkenstone) and hopefully gain something (a peaceful resolution).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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Beren IV
Mithlond
Jul 8 2009, 6:56pm
Post #12 of 18
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1. This chapter has Bilbo start out from and return to the same place. Does that make it a mini-“there and back again” tale?
No, for the reasons Curious says. The adventure isn't over when he gets back!
2. Along these same lines, this chapter is also a rather self-contained episode – does it function as a “play within a play?”
No - it follows the same episodic conventions of every other adventure so far in the book.
3. What about the Chapter Title? Does it have any Biblical significance, since this phrase is used to describe the way that God or Christ will arrive to judge people?
Although I wouldn't put it past Tolkien to include Biblical significance to the title, I see no reason why it need be.
4. Based on his actions in this chapter, is Bilbo a thief?
Yes, but he's also a hero. He steals because he wants to save lives, including the lives of the people he is stealing from. His actions are admirable.
The paleobotanist is back!
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sador
Gondolin
Jul 9 2009, 5:58am
Post #13 of 18
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It's true that if we treated chapters 14-18 as a stand-alone story, the Death of Smaug would surely be offstage, and merely mentioned - it makes no sense to have the greatest spectacle of you play in the first scene!
But for the purposes of this drama, it is a part of the exposition: establishing Bard's humble upbringing but royal lineage, his heroism and sudden popular acclaim (as well as establishing the rather important fact that the vast treasure has been suddenly deprived of its owner, and is out there for grabs).
Of course, this is only a part of the major plot, intertwined with the rest (life usually is). But I think the chapters break down very neatly to fill the pattern, and Tolkien shifts the focus accordingly. Up to chapter 13 this was Bilbo's story - but now he steps aside, and becomes a secondary character (a major one, but still) in the drama of Bard and Thorin.
"Such a fool deserves to starve." - Bard.
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Curious
Gondolin
Jul 9 2009, 7:41am
Post #14 of 18
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Even in Chapter 13, Bilbo has begun to
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step back out of the spotlight, and Thorin's story has begun. But I think the last chapters become an ensemble piece, in which Bilbo, Thorin, the thrush, Bard, the Master, the Elvenking, Roäc, Dain, Gandalf, the Eagles, and Beorn each play a role. And it's a story with two climaxes, the death of Smaug and the Battle of Five Armies.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Jul 9 2009, 6:36pm
Post #15 of 18
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It seems like most of the time Bilbo's been a true thief
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he's been busted. Troll's purse and the cup come to mind straight away. I guess he could also be considered a thief when he stole food in Thranduil's caves; but he repaid that. I don't think he was a thief with the Arkenstone. He had been told to pick his share, and he did that with no intention of gathering more... and he gave it away in the name of peace.
I remember being SO scared he'd get caught when he returned. I was shocked that he'd taken the stone to them, that he returned and that he admitted to what he had done. But nothing surprised me more than to have Gandalf show up. I think Bilbo has confounded Gandalf as much as anyone ever had in all his years. At least, not very many creatures surprise the wizard, me thinks.
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
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squire
Gondolin
Jul 10 2009, 12:44pm
Post #16 of 18
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1. This chapter has Bilbo start out from and return to the same place. Does that make it a mini-“there and back again” tale?
2. Along these same lines, this chapter is also a rather self-contained episode – does it function as a “play within a play?”
I like the perception - expressed in both of these questions - that the chapter is not just a self-contained episode like many of The Hobbit's chapters, but that it begins and ends with Bilbo in the same place as before. Most of Bilbo's other excursions drive the adventure forward in place as well as time. Only "Inside Information" (as Curious notes) has Bilbo returning to exactly where he began. Notably, there he stole (burgled) something for the dwarves and here he gives away a treasure that he burgled from the dwarves. (Of course the parallelism is not exact - the two treasures are not the same). You might say that here Bilbo is an anti-Burglar. He is using his unique talents to undo a problem that he helped to create in the first place.
What I also like about this insight is that it highlights the pure neatness of Bilbo's little commando operation. He hits the wall, disables the guard (in a Bilbo way: through a promise of sleep and warmth, rather than by violence) and escapes cleanly. He makes his way directly to his objective, negotiates exactly what he wants to negotiate, and makes it back by well before his deadline. He re-sets the guard and all is as it was before. Yet something is going to explode in the next chapter, we know: Thorin has been thoroughly set up for defeat by booby trap, courtesy of Mr. Baggins. And Mr. Baggins is clearly in for it in return: how can he sleep so peacefully at the end? (I think he knows Thorin so well by now that he does not fear for his life, and that is all that is left for him to worry about.)
Note that the Elf King and Bard are so overwhelmed by Bilbo's "business like" approach that they are utterly disarmed. They do exactly what he wants, and don't hinder him or throw off his plan in any way. Another example of how a hobbit just doesn't belong in a traditional romantic tale, and so confounds all the expectations of the genre and those who are living within it.
Also note that there is no adventure about getting back "before midnight" (a la Cinderella, among other tales of looming deadlines). No drama or threat that he will be delayed, his absence noted, his ruse exposed. No, Bilbo is back early, and dreaming peacefully of bacon and eggs at the end. Pure hobbitry!
3. What about the Chapter Title? Does it have any Biblical significance, since this phrase is used to describe the way that God or Christ will arrive to judge people?
4. Based on his actions in this chapter, is Bilbo a thief?
I agree with others here that the title has a Biblical resonance, but it has also become a catch phrase in English that only sort of applies here. After all, Bilbo is not thieving anything in this particular night (he already has stolen the Arkenstone, and transferring it to a fence does not constitute additional thievery). Yet he is a thief, and he performs his mission in the night. If we push the connection, we could say that Bilbo - by returning to the dwarves for a certain punishment - is a righteous hobbit whose righteousness is unexpected and all the more righteous for that. And that is how I read the original passage regarding Christ's return to redeem the world.
squire online:
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Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
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Curious
Gondolin
Jul 10 2009, 1:56pm
Post #17 of 18
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In a sense, this chapter forshadows LotR,
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in which the mission is, again, to give away (or destroy) a treasure, rather than to capture or steal treasure. And Frodo is undoing a problem that Bilbo's burglary (justified or not) helped create.
Note that Beren and Luthien steal a treasure for the express purpose of giving it away to Thingol. And Bombadil makes a point of spreading the treasure of the Barrow in the sun for whoever comes to take it. And we learn from Frodo that Bilbo gave away the treasure he got from the trolls.
Feanor and Thorin and Thingol, on the other hand, get in trouble through their possessiveness (Thingol treats Luthien as a possession, and later does the same with the Silmaril). So, arguably, do Melkor and Sauron, who want to rule indepedently from Eru or the other Valar. Aule, on the other hand, gets out of trouble by offering up his dwarves to Eru.
Tolkien considers possessiveness a great sin, and generosity a great virtue, even in situations where the possession seems legal, and generosity is not required.
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Jul 11 2009, 12:00am
Post #18 of 18
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Sometimes Tolkien seems to play with Biblical references for no particular solemn reason, just being cheeky. For instance, in the Bible, the Apocalypse/Revelations refers to a great celebration in heaven, to which are invited every good soul on earth, of all races and kinds, with an extra special celebration within the celebration for 144 thousand Jews--kinfolk of Jesus. So what does Bilbo do? Throws a party for everyone in the Shire, with a special party-within-the-party of 144 relatives!
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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