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EmynArnenLady
Ossiriand
May 1 2009, 12:39am
Post #1 of 14
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Question about the Woodlan Realm
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Hey all. I'm a little unclear as to jus twhere exactly the Woodland realm (Thranduil and his people) live. I know they dwell in the caverns in North Mirkwood, but I also remember reading somewhere that the also live amongst the trees. Exactly when do they live out doors and when to they live in the caverns? If this is at all true. Is there any detail of their dwellings outside? I'm ver curious about this and it's been buggin' me for a while. Thanks!
Lego-mainiac and proud of it!!
When true hearts lie withered, and fond ones are flown
Oh who would inhabit this bleak world alone?
- The last Rose of Summer
Crackle: "Those freakin' elves man....they came from the trees...they came from the trees!"
Pop: "Here's to Snap...." - (Family Guy Episode)
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Curious
Gondolin
May 1 2009, 3:53am
Post #2 of 14
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We know they eat among the trees.
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And I'm sure they camp among the trees from time to time, or just stay up all night as elves are apt to do. Indeed, we saw elves doing that back in Rivendell, when Bilbo wanted to stay with them. But I don't recall any description of flets or semi-permanent treehouses like the kinds we find in Lothlorien.
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EmynArnenLady
Ossiriand
May 1 2009, 5:21pm
Post #3 of 14
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I figured as much. That's what confused me seeing as they are woodelves yet they live undergound. I imagine they would spend their time among the trees whever possible and return to the caverns in times of disress or if they just wanted to.
Or I'm just a little dense 
Lego-mainiac and proud of it!!
When true hearts lie withered, and fond ones are flown
Oh who would inhabit this bleak world alone?
- The last Rose of Summer
Crackle: "Those freakin' elves man....they came from the trees...they came from the trees!"
Pop: "Here's to Snap...." - (Family Guy Episode)
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Curious
Gondolin
May 1 2009, 5:40pm
Post #4 of 14
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They are modeled on the elves of Doriath in The Silmarillion.
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The flets of Lothlorien were not invented until LotR. The wood elves of Mirkwood bear a distinct resemblance to the elves ruled by Thingol and Melian, Luthien's parents, in The Silmarillion.
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Curious
Gondolin
May 1 2009, 5:47pm
Post #5 of 14
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Also, Mirkwood has been overrun by evil.
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Perhaps the wood elves would not live underground if they didn't live side by side with evil Giant Spiders.
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
May 1 2009, 7:21pm
Post #6 of 14
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Tolkien leaves it ambiguous--he likes to keep us guessing. My guess is that they do have flets (Lorien establishes that elves make flets, and Tolkien mentions that the Lorien elves are kin to those in Mirkwood.) and that most of the elves probably prefer them. I think of the cavern as a castle in the midst of a village, only the castle is underground, and the village is in the trees. Or rather, in the midst of any number of villages, since this is a kingdom, not a duchy or a shire. Similarly, Lorien had many small flets scattered about throughout the woods that weren't the one great flet where Galadriel lived.
We never see any flets in Mirkwood, because we have no real occasion to see anywhere except the large, central structure where the elves take their prisoners. But since Tolkien does refer to tree-dwellers in Mirkwood, then they must have something to dwell in, and flets seem most logical.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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EmynArnenLady
Ossiriand
May 1 2009, 9:57pm
Post #7 of 14
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That's about what I had imagined. I figured they would have at least some type of dwelling among the trees, whether they be permentent or not. IMO, it's a bit of a shame we don't know more about the Mirkwood realm as we do the others, I find them the most fasinating for some reason (and no, not just because Leggy lives there  ). It also make the most sense when you point out that they are indeed kin to Lorien elves. But the great part is what we don't know we fill in with our own imagination. I'm curious to hear more thoughts on this. Like I said, it's fasinating. Teehee.....
Lego-mainiac and proud of it!!
When true hearts lie withered, and fond ones are flown
Oh who would inhabit this bleak world alone?
- The last Rose of Summer
Crackle: "Those freakin' elves man....they came from the trees...they came from the trees!"
Pop: "Here's to Snap...." - (Family Guy Episode)
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
May 2 2009, 2:22am
Post #8 of 14
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You might find out more about the Mirkwood Elves (or at least hear more speculation) in theupcoming weeks of the Hobbit Readalong. (Shameless plug--I'm doing the chapter, "Flies and Spiders" in the week after next, which has Mirkwood Elves in it. And of course they're all over the place in the chapters after that.)
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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EmynArnenLady
Ossiriand
May 2 2009, 11:53pm
Post #9 of 14
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I look forward too it! Good luck!
Lego-mainiac and proud of it!!
When true hearts lie withered, and fond ones are flown
Oh who would inhabit this bleak world alone?
- The last Rose of Summer
Crackle: "Those freakin' elves man....they came from the trees...they came from the trees!"
Pop: "Here's to Snap...." - (Family Guy Episode)
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bookgirl13
Menegroth
May 4 2009, 3:30pm
Post #10 of 14
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In the chapter "Flies and Spiders" there is a passage which shows that the Wood-elves are actually tree-dwellers:
In fact the subjects of the kIng mostly lived and hunted in the open woods, and had houses or huts on the ground and in the branches. The beeches were their favourite trees. The king's cave was his palace, and the strong place of his treasure, and the fortress of his people against their enemies.
A little earlier in the same chapter it talks about the love that the Wood-elves had for stars, where they stayed in Middle Earth dwelling most often on the edges of the woods, escaping from the shade to hunt or ride and run over the open lands by moonlight or starlight and after the coming of Men they took ever more and more to the gloaming and the dusk..
The caves of Thranduil are described as being not like those of the goblin-cities: they were smaller, less deep underground, and filled with a cleaner air. In a great hall with pillars hewn out of the living stone sate the Elvenking on a chair of carven wood. On his head was a crown of berries and red leaves, for the autumn was come again. In the spring he wore a crown of woodland flowers. In his hand he held a carven staff of oak. So their connection with nature and the seasons was still strong even when forced to live in caverns.
But the king's people neither mined nor worked metals or jewels, nor did they bother much with trade or with tilling the earth. So their love of nature was of the hunter/gatherer kind rather than farmers.
The great beeches that the elves were so fond of and probably built their houses in, were the forerunners (in Tolkien's mind) of the mallorns of Lothlorien. It could be that their houses were flets rather than the tree-houses of Walt Disney's Swiss Family Robinson.
I think it says somewhere that as Greenwood descended into being Mirkwood and as Dol Guldur became occupied, so the Wood-elves were driven further north and became even more of a hidden people. But even at the end of the Third Age, they still preferred the woods to the king's caverns.
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Curious
Gondolin
May 4 2009, 3:45pm
Post #11 of 14
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Great catch! I stand corrected.//
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bookgirl13
Menegroth
May 4 2009, 3:54pm
Post #12 of 14
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Just a good excuse to go through The Hobbit
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rather than doing housework. Queries like this always appeal to me, especially if I am meant to be doing something much more mundane.
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Curious
Gondolin
May 4 2009, 4:21pm
Post #13 of 14
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I shouldn't answer questions about
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the last half of The Hobbit off the top of my head. After we discuss it, I'll be on safer ground.
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EmynArnenLady
Ossiriand
May 4 2009, 6:09pm
Post #14 of 14
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Ah!! That's where I remember reading it! It's been a while since I read the Hobbit so no wonder. I knew I wasn't crazy! Thanks guys! My head's a lot clearer now! 
Lego-mainiac and proud of it!!
When true hearts lie withered, and fond ones are flown
Oh who would inhabit this bleak world alone?
- The last Rose of Summer
Crackle: "Those freakin' elves man....they came from the trees...they came from the trees!"
Pop: "Here's to Snap...." - (Family Guy Episode)
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