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weaver
Gondolin
Jan 10 2009, 3:00am
Post #1 of 27
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Homeward Bound 6 -- "To me it feels more like falling asleep again."
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I'm out of town tomorrow, so I am posting this a bit early. There will be one more post after this one, which will will include some general questions on the whole chapter.
The hobbits are finally on their way to the Shire, and begin to speculate about what might be happening there:
" 'I wonder what old Barliman was hinting at,' said Frodo.
'I can guess some of it,' said Sam gloomily. 'What I saw in the Mirror: trees cut down and all, and my old gaffer turned out of the Row. I ought to have hurried back quicker.'
'And something's wrong with the Southfarthing evidently,' said Merry. 'There's a general shortage of pipe-weed.'"
Pippin and Gandalf bring up the names of likely troublemakers:
"'Whatever it is,' said Pippin, 'Lotho will be at the bottom of it: you can be sure of that.'
'Deep in, but not at the bottom,' said Gandalf. 'You have forgotten Saruman. He began to take an interest in the Shire before Mordor did.'"
The hobbits learn that Gandalf will not be coming with them to the Shire:
"'I am with you at present,' said Gandalf, 'but soon I shall not be. I am not coming to the Shire. You must settle its affairs yourselves; that is what you have been trained for. Do you not yet understand? My time is over: it is no longer my task to set things to rights, nor to help folk to do so. And as for you, my dear friends, you will need no help. You are grown up now. Grown indeed very high; among the great you are, and I have no longer any fear at all for any of you.'"
We learn where Gandalf is going instead:
"'I am going to have a long talk with Bombadil: such a talk as I have not had in all my time. He is a moss-gatherer, and I have been a stone doomed to rolling. But my rolling days are ending, and now we shall have much to say to one another.'"
They come to the same place they last saw Tom:
"...they hoped and half expected to see him standing there to greet them as they went by. But there was no sign of him; and there was a grey mist on the Barrow-downs southwards, and a deep veil over the Old Forest far away."
Gandalf says a few last words and departs:
"Gandalf advises them to press on '...or you will not come to the Brandywine Bridge before the gates are locked.'
'But there aren't any gates,' said Merry, 'not on the Road; you know that quite well. There's the Buckland Gate, of course; but they'll let me through that at any time.'
'There weren't any gates, you mean,' said Gandalf. 'I think you will find some now. And you might have more trouble even at the Buckland Gate than you think. But you'll! manage all right. Good-bye dear friends! Not for the last time, not yet. Good-bye!'
Gandalf and Shadowfax depart, “racing towards the Barrow-downs like a wind from the North.”
The four hobbits end up alone:
"'Well here we are, just the four of us that started out together,' said Merry. 'We have left all the rest behind, one after another. It seems almost like a dream that has slowly faded.'
'Not to me,' said Frodo. 'To me it feels more like falling asleep again.'"
Questions:
1. Any significance to the analogy to the North Wind as Gandalf departs?
2. Why does Tolkien imply here that Saruman is going to be involved in the Shire’s problems – and then take pains later to package him under the code name of Sharkey?
3. Why does Tom Bombadil not get a farewell scene like Barliman or a return entry like Bill the Pony? Were you disappointed that Tolkien did not include a return visit with Tom and Goldberry in this part of the story?
4. What do you think Gandalf and Tom talked about? If Gandalf’s rolling stone days are over, what about Tom’s moss gathering ones? Tolkien tells us of everyone’s fate in the Appendices – why not Tom’s?
5. Why is there a grey mist over the Barrowdowns, and a deep veil over the Old Forest? Why don’t the hobbits revisit these places again?
6. Do you find it hard to have Gandalf leave at this point?
7. Did Gandalf plan for the quest to be a “training” program for the hobbits, or was that just a side benefit of it?
8. Why are Frodo and Merry in such diametrically opposed positions here? Frodo has had dreams throughout the whole story – is he now going into a phase where his life will be the dream, and his dreams will be his life?
9. Any other thoughts or questions on this section?
Weaver
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Monkeysee
Registered User
Jan 10 2009, 4:16am
Post #2 of 27
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Questions for Homeward Bound 6
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1. Gandalf's presence can be likened to the security of a warm blanket. When he leaves that blanket does as well so a 'north' wind blows, north winds are cold.
2. If the Hobbit new it was Saruman they would expect Gandalf to help or at least search out help because the Hobbit's did not know how diminished Saruman had become.
3. Tom Bombadil's encounter is so random a thing and seemingly so tangential to the story, its a conundrum, but here's my guess. Tom never directly affected the Hobbit's beyond their encounter with him, JRRT does a great job of tying up loose ends and because of the limited amount of impact to the tale, Tom's loose end is easily tied up, as is Barliman's and Bill's. Also I believe Tolkein is hinting the Tom is someone of great importance in Valinor, see answer 4.
4. Tom is the Herald of Eonwe or Manwe? I can't remember which one is the herald and which is the Valnorean leader. He is a moss gatherer bringing news back and forth to Valinor like any good herald should. It was petitioned in Valinor that Frodo should be allowed on the last boat, yet Galadriel and Gandalf didn't go back to Valinor only to return again. No, Tom is the herlad and brought word to and from Valinor... Or... Goldberry is the herald... Really, its a guess.
5. Would you want to visit a place where the trees might eat you when you could also get home to a warm fire, plenty of food, beer, etc? They were homesick, plus if my assumptions were right in question 4, there is no purpose to seeing Tom again as JRRT would have to reveal who he was which I think would unravel his tale and make it less grand.
6. No, well and yes. It makes the story right. Its the age of man and the crazy things in the world like Tom Bombadil and Tree Beard will be gone soon. Yes because I know its the end of the (third age?) age of elves and crazy things in the world, I don't really want that to go.
7. Side benefit, it was "from hope unlooked for" the bring in the age of man and defeat Sauron that the Hobbits went on their "quest".
8. No to your suggestion with the dreams. I think its far simpler than that. Merry and Pippin gathered their courage and fought with swords and armour, surrounded the galloping horses, giant trolls, inumerable orcs and other terrible things. Frodo and Sam gathered their courage and fought with their will, their hearts, their minds. The different fights bred different end results.
9. What a bittersweet section. Never liked it when good books end.
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Curious
Gondolin
Jan 10 2009, 4:26am
Post #3 of 27
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1. Any significance to the analogy to the North Wind as Gandalf departs?
At Helm's Deep and the Black Gates, the North Wind brought victory. I suppose one could argue that Gandalf is victorious, but I think he just happens to be riding south. The wind direction is, I believe, significant, but this is not a report on the wind, just an analogy to it.
It's easy for me to forget that Shadowfax accompanied the party all the way from Gondor, apparently walking at the pace of hobbits, the slowest members of the party. I sure hope Gandalf let him wander off and return on a regular basis, because Shadowfax must have been bored out of his mind!
2. Why does Tolkien imply here that Saruman is going to be involved in the Shire’s problems – and then take pains later to package him under the code name of Sharkey?
That's the key to foreshadowing -- always hint, but never give away the plot. We suspect that Saruman is at the root of the trouble, but we do not know for sure, and we do not know that Sharkey is Saruman.
3. Why does Tom Bombadil not get a farewell scene like Barliman or a return entry like Bill the Pony?
Bombadil doesn't fit into this part of the story. Bombadil isn't sailing west with the elves and Gandalf, but Bombadil and Goldberry are flamboyantly magical creatures, a part of Faerie. At this point, Tolkien wants to focus on the departure of the elves and Gandalf and the beginning of the Age of Men, where the threats, and the responses to them, are mundane, not magical.
Still, it's strange that Gandalf suddenly thinks the hobbits should hurry home, after allowing them to spend months on the road, including an extra day in Bree, which they just left. If we ignore Tolkien's story-external motives, it's as if Gandalf doesn't want the hobbits with him when he visits Tom and Goldberry. I wonder what Tom and Goldberry look like to Gandalf? Maybe they will shed their fleshly forms when they meet. And if the hobbits aren't around, it will save them a great deal of explanation. Remember how Gandalf and the elves communicated mind to mind long after the hobbits had gone to sleep? Perhaps Gandalf and Bombadil will do something even more exotic, but would be prevented from doing so if the hobbits were around. Still, why not just one day to visit? I do hope the hobbits visited Tom at some point -- especially Frodo.
Were you disappointed that Tolkien did not include a return visit with Tom and Goldberry in this part of the story?
No. I have more affection for Bombadil than many readers, and he never did quite fit into the world of The Hobbit or The Silmarillion. I don't long for a return visit.
On the other hand, I didn't long for a return visit with anyone. I would have been happy, I think, with "and they all lived happily ever after." The purpose of all these return visits is to set up both the Scouring and Frodo's departure with Gandalf and the elves, which I did not expect. Bombadil doesn't really fit into that purpose -- he doesn't help set anything up.
4. What do you think Gandalf and Tom talked about?
Judging from what Gandalf told the hobbits, not anything having to do with the War of the Ring. More likely they shared ancient memories, and told jokes the hobbits would not understand.
If Gandalf’s rolling stone days are over, what about Tom’s moss gathering ones?
Tom seems likely to gather moss forever.
Tolkien tells us of everyone’s fate in the Appendices – why not Tom’s?
What is there to tell that we don't already know? He is what he is, and will remain so, apparently.
5. Why is there a grey mist over the Barrowdowns, and a deep veil over the Old Forest?
Now here's a weather report of significance. During the tale, mists along the Brandywine and Anduin seemed to protect the hobbits from harm. Faramir and the hobbits also had visions and dreams near water. I think the grey mist and deep veil signify mystery, and possibly the presence of spirits, perhaps including Ulmo himself. It's a bit of Faerie which still remains in Middle-earth, and will remain after the elves leave or fade. But the hobbits must prepare themselves for a much more mundane adventure. They are not quite ready to gather moss.
Why don’t the hobbits revisit these places again?
I feel confident that they will, as Farmer Maggot did, even though we don't hear about it.
6. Do you find it hard to have Gandalf leave at this point?
Sure, all these good-byes are hard, and Gandalf's seems like the last, although it isn't, quite, as Gandalf himself notes.
7. Did Gandalf plan for the quest to be a "training" program for the hobbits, or was that just a side benefit of it?
Side benefit, for sure. Bilbo's adventure was arguably more of a training program, since his lesser adventure led to Frodo's greater one. But there, too, Gandalf was also genuinely interested in taking down Smaug, and only incidentally in training Bilbo to train other hobbits for adventure.
8. Why are Frodo and Merry in such diametrically opposed positions here?
Because Frodo has not really returned. His heart is still in Fairie, and so is his cure. He has returned only to prepare for another departure.
Frodo has had dreams throughout the whole story – is he now going into a phase where his life will be the dream, and his dreams will be his life?
No, his dreams have always been dreams. But Fairie has become, for him, more real than the Shire.
9. Any other thoughts or questions on this section?
How could the hobbits have forgotten Saruman's threats? Perhaps they just assumed all along that Gandalf would take care of Saruman. But Gandalf has reverted to the way he acted in The Hobbit, disappearing just when the action is about to start.
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Jan 10 2009, 5:40pm
Post #4 of 27
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My thoughts, before reading others
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Questions:
1. Any significance to the analogy to the North Wind as Gandalf departs?
That it's a cold wind? That the hobbits face the chill of striking out on their own?
2. Why does Tolkien imply here that Saruman is going to be involved in the Shire’s problems – and then take pains later to package him under the code name of Sharkey? So we might suspect Saruman's indirect hand, yet still be surprised when he turns up directly?
3. Why does Tom Bombadil not get a farewell scene like Barliman or a return entry like Bill the Pony? Were you disappointed that Tolkien did not include a return visit with Tom and Goldberry in this part of the story? Yes, I was disappointed, but so were the hobbits, and so that is as it should be. It made the story more realistic. Reconnecting with every single past encounter would never happen in real life. As it is it probably happens more than one should expect, but a single omission makes a sufficient nod to realism to suffice for this reader. Besides, it would have been out of character to Tom--it was rarity enough to meet him the first time! As we slip into the "primary world", we have to deal with the fact that while mysteries like Tom still abound on Earth, we no longer automatically have the capacity to see them.
4. What do you think Gandalf and Tom talked about? If Gandalf’s rolling stone days are over, what about Tom’s moss gathering ones? Tolkien tells us of everyone’s fate in the Appendices – why not Tom’s? Because we already know Tom's fate, or should. He will continue. He was first and he will be last. He will continue to gather moss as long as there is moss to be gathered.
5. Why is there a grey mist over the Barrowdowns, and a deep veil over the Old Forest? Why don’t the hobbits revisit these places again? Revisit? Uh, where they nearly got eaten alive by a cranky willow and then sacrificed by freaky old ghosts? Great spot for a vacation, I say! While we're at it, let's go climb Caradhras!*** Putting that aside for the earlier part of your question, you make a good point. The Barrowdowns and the Old Forest are Faerie places right on the very borders of the mundane. They do not become mundane, but they do become veiled. These things remain parts of reality, but we can no longer see them as clearly as once we could.
6. Do you find it hard to have Gandalf leave at this point? Hard but not surprising. Try and name one enterprise, here or in the Hobbit, where he does not bail out at a crucial moment. Okay, so he had legitimate excuses, like, say, dying, or rescuing Faramir from death, but really, it has become a habit so consistent that Saruman can taunt his allies with it: "Not him! He drops his tools when he finishes with them."
7. Did Gandalf plan for the quest to be a “training” program for the hobbits, or was that just a side benefit of it? I might go so far as to say coequal benefit. Angels multitask, and there are no minor details. He might not have known specifically what he needed to train them for, but this might be part of the answer as to why he so passionately defended Merry and Pippin's right to join in the adventure.
8. Why are Frodo and Merry in such diametrically opposed positions here? Frodo has had dreams throughout the whole story – is he now going into a phase where his life will be the dream, and his dreams will be his life? If you answer your own question, does it count as a question?
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
(This post was edited by Dreamdeer on Jan 10 2009, 5:42pm)
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sador
Gondolin
Jan 10 2009, 7:11pm
Post #5 of 27
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It's wonderful to have someone new joining - right into the Reading Room! We need more like you.
As for weaver's questions - no time now. Hopefully tomorrow.
"I am going home now to put my notes in order" - Frodo
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Curious
Gondolin
Jan 10 2009, 7:34pm
Post #6 of 27
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was the herald. But I don't think Bombadil is Eonwe.
I don't think Bombadil fits into the worlds of The Silmarillion or The Hobbit, which Tolkien combined in LotR. Tolkien invented Bombadil independently of The Hobbit and The Sil, and then was determined to use him in LotR. But Bombadil's magic is more flamboyant than anyone else's, topped off by his toying with the Ring and insisting he is Eldest, which makes him look powerful, whatever Gandalf may say.
In some ways, though, Bombadil is no different from Goldberry, Goldberry's River-mother (apparently the Withywindle), or Caradhras, all of whom appear to be miscellaneous immortal spirits of some kind, still residing in Middle-earth. I tend to think there are also spirits associated with the Brandywine, Nimrodel, Anduin, Mount Mindolluin, and Mount Doom, and perhaps the Hills of Sight and Hearing (Amon Hen and Amon Lhaw) as well -- indeed I think that is just the start of the list. Tom's difference, again, is his flamboyance, his insistence that he is Eldest, and his propensity for taking a fleshly appearance, something the Ainur used to do regularly but seems to have gone out of style. (Gandalf doesn't count, because at least prior to his death his body was not just an illusion but a genuine vulnerability).
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Curious
Gondolin
Jan 10 2009, 7:50pm
Post #7 of 27
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Add the River Bruinen to that list.
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The one that swept the Black Riders away at the Ford. Actually, I would bet that all the non-polluted rivers of Middle-earth still have spirits associate with them, which is one reason why the Nazgul were afraid of water. Elsewhere Tolkien explains that the waters of Middle-earth were most resistant to Morgoth's taint.
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Jan 11 2009, 4:21am
Post #8 of 27
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I often wondered if the Dead Marshes had been Ulmo's attempt to spy on Sauron, but then Sauron did something to derange the spirits of that water--were the ghostly figures Maian hallucinations? Then, the rest of Mordor being a desert might be a safety precaution against further spying. Sauron does have the Sea of Nurnen out by his breadbasket, the Mordor province of Nurn, but notice how far it is from research and development or any other sort of military activity.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Cyberia
Lindon
Jan 11 2009, 8:15am
Post #9 of 27
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It seems odd to me that Gandalf would not want to deal with Saruman directly, not only for personal reasons, but to wrap up the issues with rogue Maiar. Saruman is still very, very dangerous, especially to a hobbit. If it was simply Wormtongue or a few stray orcs, I would agree let the hobbits deal with it themselves. But Saruman....?
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sador
Gondolin
Jan 11 2009, 1:27pm
Post #10 of 27
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Hard but not surprising. Try and name one enterprise, here or in the Hobbit, where he does not bail out at a crucial moment.
Consider his sitting up the Mountain in the Battle of Five Armies, where Tolkien does at least save his face by suggesting he was peparing some last magic. Ye-es.
But of course, falling with a Balrog to the abyss isn't the most covinient way of bailing out.
"I am going home now to put my notes in order" - Frodo
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sador
Gondolin
Jan 11 2009, 1:47pm
Post #11 of 27
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A few answers, some to the point
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1. Any significance to the analogy to the North Wind as Gandalf departs?
Add to Curious' answer the dirge for Boromir, and Merry's asking Strider whether he missed the North Wind in Hollin - the latter I think is quite significant.
2. Why does Tolkien imply here that Saruman is going to be involved in the Shire’s problems – and then take pains later to package him under the code name of Sharkey?
The first hint was in 'Flotsam and Jetsam', when the Southrener's friend of Bill Ferny was mentioned. This point is made clearer next chapter - in the respective reactions of Sam and Merry to the ruffians.
The name Sharkey is a nice touch - but let's not steal laerasea's thunder!
3. Why does Tom Bombadil not get a farewell scene like Barliman or a return entry like Bill the Pony? Were you disappointed that Tolkien did not include a return visit with Tom and Goldberry in this part of the story?
Tom is not really a part of the story.
4. What do you think Gandalf and Tom talked about? If Gandalf’s rolling stone days are over, what about Tom’s moss gathering ones? Tolkien tells us of everyone’s fate in the Appendices – why not Tom’s?
Tolkien never tells us what Tom is, and he probably wanted to keep it an enigma. Telling his fate would ruin everything.
5. Why is there a grey mist over the Barrowdowns, and a deep veil over the Old Forest?
They are on the other side of the rain curtain.
Why don’t the hobbits revisit these places again?
They belong on this side.
6. Do you find it hard to have Gandalf leave at this point?
Not harder than all the previous partings. It seemed to be a sort of extension of the previous chapter.
7. Did Gandalf plan for the quest to be a “training” program for the hobbits, or was that just a side benefit of it?
In a way, he did.
Not for confronting Saruman - but in general, that is a part of preparing for the Age of Men.
8. Why are Frodo and Merry in such diametrically opposed positions here?
This is a preparing for the next chapter.
Frodo has had dreams throughout the whole story – is he now going into a phase where his life will be the dream, and his dreams will be his life?
Have you read the Chronicles of Narnia recently? But seriously, you're quite right.
9. Any other thoughts or questions on this section?
A silly one - did Ugluk abduct Merry because Saruman wanted to talk herblore with him? How jealous he would have been of Theoden, and the possibility of his having the monopoly on westmansweed (as Aragorn calls it) in the Gap of Rohan!
"I am going home now to put my notes in order" - Frodo
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Curious
Gondolin
Jan 11 2009, 3:10pm
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5. Why is there a grey mist over the Barrowdowns, and a deep veil over the Old Forest?
They are on the other side of the rain curtain.
Why don’t the hobbits revisit these places again?
They belong on this side.
I like that!
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simplyaven
Hithlum
Jan 11 2009, 7:36pm
Post #13 of 27
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On North Wind, moss and going home journey
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1. Any significance to the analogy to the North Wind as Gandalf departs?
The North Wind is cold. When the north wind blows most people stay at home if they can. Especially in old times when the north wind marked the end of the harvesting season. The north wind was an invitation to go home, to stay inside where it is cozy and warm, to join those you love, to celebrate family. North wind often marked also the season of the big winter holidays which started early in November (it still does) and thus marked the beginning of celebrating achievements. So, I'd say Tolkien 's North Wind called for settling down, finding the way home wherever home was and being proud/content.
3. Why does Tom Bombadil not get a farewell scene like Barliman or a return entry like Bill the Pony? Were you disappointed that Tolkien did not include a return visit with Tom and Goldberry in this part of the story?
There can't be a farewell scene with living history which Tom Bombadil represents. Besides, the hobbits were not yet settling down, so they had nothing to do at Bombadil's lands (I'll try to explain my thoughts on Bombadil below).
4. What do you think Gandalf and Tom talked about? If Gandalf’s rolling stone days are over, what about Tom’s moss gathering ones? Tolkien tells us of everyone’s fate in the Appendices – why not Tom’s?
From moss I'll start. Moss always appears on the north side of stones, trees or any other thing that has been idle for a long time. Therefore moss could symbolize stability. And the North Wind was blowing to call for going home.
Tom Bombadil is a "moss gatherer" thus being a collector of history in Middle Earth. Tom is the master of things that have been in ME for ages. Tom is the master of what was and some of what is. And Gandalf's rolling days are ending. Moss doesn't appear on rolling stones. One has to decide and settle down/go home/become idle to get the chance to deliberately meet the moss gatherer. Gandalf is going home and he can meet the master now. I think Bombadil had power over all things because he knew their stories (he gathered their moss once). The Ring didn't have power over Tom because Tom is beyond time, he is time of ME himself. The Ring is just a piece of this time while Tom has been there and will remain there until the last living thing disappears.
The moss gatherer could also decide himself when to meet as he did with the hobbits in the beginning. I'd say it was an exception due to the need of help. But now the hobbits can not meet Tom Bombadil again as they are not settling yet. There are things to do in the Shire and for Frodo especially, there are long days of uneasyness to come. I'd guess Frodo could have met Tom on his way to the Grey Havens, once he had decided his days in ME are over. But it would have brought nothing to the story itself, so it doesn't make much sense for Tolkien to write it.
Culinary journey through Middle Earth continues! Bright new in the New Year - January 15 on the Main board
I believe
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Jan 11 2009, 10:03pm
Post #14 of 27
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I think that at this point Saruman is no longer precisely a maia. He has no real magic left, only a gift for persuasion. In fact, on some level he might realize this himself--either the fact or that he was slipping that way. In "The Fellowship of the Ring", when he tries to persuade Gandalf to come over to the dark side of the force (sorry--couldn't resist!) he refers to the coming of the Age of Men as "our" time--as though he has already begun to forget what he was. He still had residual magic left at that point, but did he perhaps lose it at some point? How much of what he did to impress people was in fact sleight of hand and suggestion? He certainly had no capacity left to curse, considering that his curse upon the Shire should his blood spill there preceded a year of incalcuable bounty!
Maybe Gandalf meant to leave Saruman to the hobbits both to inform Saruman as to how much he lost (perhaps in the hopes that he would repent and seek to gain it back) and to educate the hobbits as to their own power. If Gandalf had stepped in for them, they might have fallen prey to future charlatans. They need to learn that Saruman and his ilk have no more power in Middle Earth.
And maybe Gandalf doesn't, either. Far from Saruman's prediction, his era is over. Aside from telepathy with elves, which one may consider a natural ability, does Gandalf perform any actual magic after the destruction of the Ring?
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Beren IV
Mithlond
Jan 12 2009, 12:36am
Post #15 of 27
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I have to wonder how much Gandalf knew about what the Hobbits would find. Obviously, he realizes that things are not going well, but does he realize that the Shire has been actually taken over, and that Saruman is behind it?
Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Jan 12 2009, 4:01pm
Post #16 of 27
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He came right out and said that Saruman took an interest in the Shire long before Sauron did, and hinted that this might affect their homecoming.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Curious
Gondolin
Jan 12 2009, 8:06pm
Post #17 of 27
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Gandalf broke Saruman's staff.
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Isn't that when Saruman lost his magic?
Gandalf left Saruman to the hobbits because his Stewardship was over, and he had every confidence that the hobbits were up to the task. But I think Gandalf still had magic.
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Jan 13 2009, 5:25am
Post #18 of 27
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...but after all of this talk of the fading of Faerie, I'm not so sure anymore. (RE Gandalf's magic--still intact or not?)
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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sador
Gondolin
Jan 13 2009, 7:32am
Post #19 of 27
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- The power he had by the possesion of Narya - is clearly over.
- The power of an Istari, as symbolised by (or even embedded in) his staff - might have been broken with it on the stone, when he fought the Balrog. But I think the power of "wizards" went on to the Fourth Age at least (but I haven't read the Return of the Shadow. Perhaps someone more knowing than me could give a better answer) - one always wonders, what happened to Radagast and the Blue Wizards?
- The far greater power he was invested in, when reincarnated as Gandalf the White - I see no reason to suppose it failed with the Three; but of course, he was obliged to surrender it and return to Valinor.
"A sign of affection, possibly" - Saruman
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Curious
Gondolin
Jan 13 2009, 7:35am
Post #20 of 27
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Fairie will still exist in the West.
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It's fading from Middle-earth, but not from Elvenhome or Valinor, where Gandalf is headed. I think Gandalf is more powerful than ever, but he will no longer use that power in Middle-earth.
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Curious
Gondolin
Jan 13 2009, 3:04pm
Post #21 of 27
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The Breelanders perceived Gandalf's new power.
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"... those who had not seen the strangers in all their gear before gaped with wonder at them: at Gandalf with his white beard, and the light that seemed to gleam from him, as if his blue mantle was only a cloud over sunshine ..."
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Jan 13 2009, 5:20pm
Post #22 of 27
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They knew Gandalf before, as a funny character who popped in and out, rumored to be a wizard, but Butterbur stayed loyal to him anyway. Now they're gaping at him as if they'd never seen him before--and in a sense, they haven't.
Thank you for clarifying that for me.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Curious
Gondolin
Jan 13 2009, 6:57pm
Post #23 of 27
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I just realized that this is the first time we see him wearing blue. Before he either wore grey or white or grey over white. He's worn a blue hat before (a relic from The Hobbit which soon disappeared from the descriptions in LotR) but never a blue mantle, that I recall. At the Grey Havens he's once again robed in white.
I suppose he's given up his ragged grey cloak forever, now, but if he rode around in white all the time he would just be too dang bright. Doesn't he have any control over that? Where's the dimmer switch? 
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Jan 14 2009, 2:33am
Post #24 of 27
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I seem to recall something about a blue scarf somewhere in one of the books.
Whatever the case, Galadriel might have clothed him all in white, but really, white isn't the most practical color for fabric that you intend to wear camping out, not to mention galloping through battles. White cloth stains from a dirty look. All of that mud, blood, and greasy camp food has probably made his original elf-made garb hopelessly disgusting. I'm not surprised if he's bought a few new pieces on the way home, and settled for light blue when he couldn't find more white.
(I actually had a dream of him in modern garb, wearing khakis because he couldn't find white slacks.)
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Curious
Gondolin
Jan 14 2009, 4:04am
Post #25 of 27
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In Fairie, Gandalf wears white, and it remains clean and blindingly bright no matter how much he rides or camps or battles. Now that the fairy story is over, Gandalf wears a blue mantle. But later, at the Grey Havens, he'll wear white again.
I thought the hat was blue, and the scarf silver.
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