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batik
Dor-Lomin
Dec 15 2008, 11:49pm
Post #1 of 7
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Many Partings I: Aragorn&Arwen sitting near a tree...
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she's s-i-n-g-i-n-g!
Here we are---I reckon about two weeks post the BIG event!!!
(and am I happy to have a chapter with practically no chance of book/film conflicts--well, there was that shot of the map...)
But now, come along on the journey from Minas Tirith to Edoras to Isengard to Rivendell...
1) We initially encountered Arwen in Many Meetings, got a few second hand peeks at her in a couple of the many chapters since, maybe a glimpse of her in the previous chapter, and now she’s back in Many Partings. Only now does Tolkien allow us to *hear* Arwen speaking.
Why now?
Also, for a character that is so central in the ‘tale of their long waiting’, Arwen seems perplexingly underdeveloped.
Agree/disagree? Comments?
2) Arwen says “…and all that was done by that power is now passing away.”
What are some examples of what was done?
3) Frodo carried the Ring on a chain for much (all?) of his journey.
Any thoughts on what his thoughts may have been as Arwen places a silver chain with a white gem around his neck?
4) Gimli and Eomer have a short anecdotal exchange regarding the beauty of the women.
What purpose does this serve at this point in the story?
Any other examples of Tolkien’s use of this device come to mind?
5) Would be nice to know even if it’s fairly trivial---
Aragorn states “In seven days we will go.” Then we read: “In three days…Eomer of Rohan came riding to the City…” According to Appendix B this happens on July 18 and the next day, July 19, “The funeral escort of King Theoden sets out”
Is there an error in the timeline?
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sador
Gondolin
Dec 16 2008, 10:39am
Post #2 of 7
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A few answers, some to the point
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1) We initially encountered Arwen in Many Meetings, got a few second hand peeks at her in a couple of the many chapters since, maybe a glimpse of her in the previous chapter, and now she’s back in Many Partings. Only now does Tolkien allow us to *hear* Arwen speaking.
Why now?
Well, we need to know she isn't mute.
Before, Arwen was just 'there', an unfathomable attendant, described as if she is really important, with some hints of being a source of inspiration to Aragorn.
We actually 'saw' her speaking before, in deep conversation with Aragorn, at the end of 'Many Meetings'.
Also, for a character that is so central in the ‘tale of their long waiting’, Arwen seems perplexingly underdeveloped.
Agree/disagree? Comments?
Answered above.
2) Arwen says “…and all that was done by that power is now passing away.”
What are some examples of what was done?
I assume she means everything which was made by the Three, too - Rivendell, Lorien (what about the fabled seven hoards of the dwarf-lords of old?).
Even more ominously, it could mean Bilbo's long life.
3) Frodo carried the Ring on a chain for much (all?) of his journey.
Any thoughts on what his thoughts may have been as Arwen places a silver chain with a white gem around his neck?
I wonder about it. In the previous chapter, Frodo saw Arwen's coming as being a blessing to the day, and even the night - and now Arwen herself is the herald pronouncing bhe will never recover, offering him a way out of the world, and a temporary pain-killer when the Shadow begins to lie heavily on him.
In the last two chapters, we have seen a glimpse of the joy that 'for a moment passes outside the frame, rends indeed the very web of story, and lets a gleam come through' ('On Fairy Tales' - quoted however from Tom Shippey's Author of the Century). But no more.
To paraphrase Lewis:
The eucatastrophe is over. This is the awakening.
4) Gimli and Eomer have a short anecdotal exchange regarding the beauty of the women.
What purpose does this serve at this point in the story?
Any other examples of Tolkien’s use of this device come to mind?
I think it really is important, at least for showing us the bonding of these two and also reinforcing Eomer's words of the Men of the Mark being true to their word.
Other examples - well there are plenty. Morothorn asked about them here, in question four. It was an interesting discussion, in which Curious remarked that Tolkien actually does these kind of things far better than the average writer.
5) Would be nice to know even if it’s fairly trivial---
Aragorn states “In seven days we will go.” Then we read: “In three days…Eomer of Rohan came riding to the City…” According to Appendix B this happens on July 18 and the next day, July 19, “The funeral escort of King Theoden sets out”
Is there an error in the timeline?
Very nice catch! Note, however, that "At length after fifteen days of journey the wain of King Theoden... came to Edoras", and that it arrives there on August 7th - which means the entry for July 19 is a mistake and should read July 22.
"I had so much to do here; and packing is such a bother" - Bilbo
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Elvenhome
Dec 16 2008, 3:48pm
Post #3 of 7
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I had a dream about that white gem once.
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It was back when I had a very large benign tumor, and I had dream about a closet full of monsters that looked like horseshoe crabs. Aragorn fought the monsters with his sword, and Arwen hung her white gem in the closet so they wouldn't come back.
And later I had a dream in which all these people were killed in a bomb blast. Arwen gathered up the ashes and brought the people back to life.
In both dreams, she was book-Arwen, not movie-Arwen. I've always seen her as a healer and nurturer, even though she doesn't speak much.
As for what Frodo's thoughts might have been, I don't know. But it surely was helpful to him. I'm reminded of a scene in a movie (I can't remember which one) in which a guy had been tortured with a rope in a POW camp, and he says "You survive by learning to love the rope."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Dec 16 2008, 8:55pm
Post #4 of 7
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At least Arwen gets more lines than Sauron! //
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Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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batik
Dor-Lomin
Dec 17 2008, 1:36am
Post #5 of 7
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this chapter begins on July 15, Eomer arrives on the 18th, and on July 22 the procession leaves MT?
and thanks for the link--the seamless tapestry/tying up loose ends--that fits. Kind of nice that Tolkien let us see the resolution to that *little* issue and brought back the memory of that meeting--especially amid all these partings.
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batik
Dor-Lomin
Dec 17 2008, 2:36am
Post #6 of 7
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yes, well...his eye *spoke* volumes//
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Curious
Gondolin
Dec 19 2008, 9:32pm
Post #7 of 7
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1) We initially encountered Arwen in Many Meetings, got a few second hand peeks at her in a couple of the many chapters since, maybe a glimpse of her in the previous chapter, and now she’s back in Many Partings. Only now does Tolkien allow us to *hear* Arwen speaking.
Why now?
Also, for a character that is so central in the ‘tale of their long waiting’, Arwen seems perplexingly underdeveloped.
Agree/disagree? Comments?
Yes, Arwen is underdeveloped. Tolkien tries to make up for it in Appendix A, and justifies putting it there by noting that LotR is not Aragorn's story, but the hobbits'. Still, Tolkien made room for Galadriel and Eowyn, and I think he could have made more room in FotR for Arwen -- and for Sam's Rosie, as well.
2) Arwen says “…and all that was done by that power is now passing away.”
What are some examples of what was done?
Bilbo's unnatural youth, for one. I think she also refers to Rivendell and Lothlorien, which were made and protected by the power of the Elven Rings, and therefore indirectly by the power of the One Ring. Most of the works made directly by the One Ring, such as Baradur, have already fallen.
3) Frodo carried the Ring on a chain for much (all?) of his journey.
Any thoughts on what his thoughts may have been as Arwen places a silver chain with a white gem around his neck?
I absolutely think the gem on a chain was a substitute for the Ring on a chain. I don't know what Frodo's thoughts may be, but it took me aback. Arwen predicts a dismal future for Frodo in Middle-earth. The only cure may be to leave the Shire forever. In some ways this chapter is sadder than The Grey Havens, because by then we are prepared. Here, we just come off this wonderful high, and then BOOM -- sorry Frodo, you're doomed to hurt, grief, wounds, weariness, and memories of a heavy burden, fear, and darkness. But, you can leave all your friends forever and maybe find healing in the West. Here's a gem to ease the pain. Wow!
Frodo doesn't seem surprised, so I would guess he has already been troubled, and is glad for promise of relief, immediately via the gem and longterm with the offer to sail West. That may be why we saw through Sam's eyes when the hobbits awakened, and not Frodo's -- Frodo may already know he is not healed.
4) Gimli and Eomer have a short anecdotal exchange regarding the beauty of the women.
What purpose does this serve at this point in the story?
Any other examples of Tolkien’s use of this device come to mind?
The exchange offers humor and ties up a loose end, but it also injects yet another sad note into this melancholy chapter, for Gimli concludes that Éomer has "'chosen the Evening; but my love is given to the Morning. And my heart forbodes that it will soon pass away for ever.'"
5) Would be nice to know even if it’s fairly trivial---
Aragorn states “In seven days we will go.” Then we read: “In three days…Eomer of Rohan came riding to the City…” According to Appendix B this happens on July 18 and the next day, July 19, “The funeral escort of King Theoden sets out”
Is there an error in the timeline?
Yes, good catch.
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