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sador
Gondolin
Nov 17 2008, 7:38pm
Post #1 of 18
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The Land of Shadow, part 2 - Run Like Hell
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The hobbits leave the Tower, and enter Mordor, by running. Their running out of the Tower might be compared to Lagduf and Muzgash, who tried to escape last chapter and were shot in their backs for their pains. But running seems to be the usual method of entering Mordor – see last chapter:
He ran forward to the crown of the climbing path, and over it. At once the road turned left and plunged steeply down. Sam had crossed into Mordor.
1. Is this that one needs to ‘screw oneself up’ in order to cross the border, or is there actually something in Mordor which calls the hobbits to it?
Also, remember Frodo’s running up to Minas Morgul:
Frodo felt his senses reeling and his mind darkening. Then suddenly, as if some force were at work other than his own will, he began to hurry, tottering forward, his head lolling from side to side... The luminous tower fascinated him, and he fought the desire that was on him to run up the gleaming road towards its gate.
2. Is this also such a case, of Frodo being called?
3. In that case, why isn’t he called to the Nazgul on the battlement? And how could the Nazgul miss him – after all we’ve learned of them?
Whatever the cause, the Nazgul did miss them, and that’s the important thing.
Perching now on the wall beside the ruined gate, it sends out its deadly cries.
This reminds me of Shagrat calling for help in the Tower of Cirith Ungol last chapter:
Going to the parapet he leaned over, looking down into the outer court far below. Twice he shouted but no answer came.
4. Do you think the Nazgul came in answer to his calls? Or was he heard in the outer forts?
The Nazgul is answered (or else Shagrat was heard, and the Ringwraith is merely directing operations), and the hunt is up. Orcs and horsemen pursue them.
5. Where did the pursuers come from?
6. I’m particulary interested by the horsemen – were the riders Men, or Orcs? Where in the Ephel Duath are the stables to keep the horses, or the grass for them to graze in?
Let's pause and consider the Orcs, and their ‘iron-shod feet’. In ‘The Riders of Rohan’, Aragorn describes them as such, but just before that, the Three Hunters find in there way a castaway “heavy iron-nailed shoe”. It appears that ‘iron shod’ refers to their boots, which is further supported by the description given in The Hobbit:
When the goblins discovered that, they put out their torches and they slipped on soft shoes. (‘Over Hill and Under Hill’)
7. What are the advantages and disadvantages of this gear (iron shoes) for the Orcs?
8. When I led ‘The Black Gate is Closed’, I expressed dislike of Tolkien’s often describing orcs as beasts. Is ‘iron-shod’ a similar phrase, implying that orcs are bovine?
After the mad run, and the pursuit – let's consider the means of escape.
A short way beyond the way-meeting, after another steep incline, a flying bridge of stone leapt over the chasm and bore the road across.
Quite like the Bridge of Khazad-dum:
The outer door could only be reached by a slender bridge of stone, without kerb or rail, that spanned the chasm with one curving spring of fifty feet.
9. Are the bridges the same? Is this bridge also without kerb or rail? Is it curving?
10. Is ‘flying’ a description of the type of bridge, or is the adjective used merely to convey a sense of danger and giddyness?
11. The pursuers seem to head for this very bridge. Why? Were the Hobbits observed – and if so, how come they weren’t caught after the drop they took?
‘Well, here goes, Mr. Frodo,’ said Sam. ‘Good-bye!’
As it is, Sam’s farewell is quite premature; the hobbits survive the fall, and begin to feel what Mordor itself is like. Next time, we’ll discuss the atmosphere of the new country they find themselves in – which as I suggested in the previous thread before, is Middle-Earth’s version of Hell (to appease Beren IV, the present version of Hell). We will especially consider it’s effect on Frodo.
And a last question – one might say Frodo entered Mordor three times: he was carried into it (as a prisoner, by Shagrat’s troops), he dashed right into it, and he fell into it.
12. How do these three relate to each other – in the story, and as ways to enter Hell?
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
In the Land of Mordor were the Shadows lie.
"And thither we are going against my wish. Who will lead us now in this deadly dark?" - Boromir, ‘A Journey in the Dark’.
Join us in the Reading Room for 'The Land of Shadow'!
(This post was edited by sador on Nov 17 2008, 7:42pm)
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Nov 17 2008, 11:13pm
Post #2 of 18
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“All through the night, like a tumult of a river when it races between the cliffs of a canyon, in my sleep I could hear the steady roar of the passing army. And when early in the morning I went to the window the chain of steel was still unbroken. It was like the torrent that swept down the Connemaugh Valley and destroyed Johnstown. This was a machine, endless, tireless, with the delicate organization of a watch and the brute power of a steam roller. And for three days and three nights through Brussels it roared and rumbled, a cataract of molten lead. The infantry marched singing, with their iron-shod boots beating out the time. They sang “Fatherland, My Fatherland”. Between each line of song they took three steps. At times 2000 men were singing together in absolute rhythm and beat. It was like blows from giant pile-drivers. When the melody gave way the silence was broken only by the stamp of iron-shod boots, and then again the song rose.”
-Downey, Fairfax, “Richard Harding Davis: His Day”, 1933.
1. Is this that one needs to ‘screw oneself up’ in order to cross the border, or is there actually something in Mordor which calls the hobbits to it?
It’s the Chamber of Commerce sign: “Welcome to Mordor! (Pst! You’re going the wrong way!)”
2. Is this also such a case, of Frodo being called?
Many are called, but few are Frodo.
3. In that case, why isn’t he called to the Nazgul on the battlement?
What’s a Nazgul like that doing on a battlement like this?
And how could the Nazgul miss him – after all we’ve learned of them?
He never expected anyone to run *into* Mordor.
4. Do you think the Nazgul came in answer to his calls? Or was he heard in the outer forts?
I think the Nazgul felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if dozens of orcs had cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
5. Where did the pursuers come from?
A flying brigade that's regularly out on patrol.
6. I’m particulary interested by the horsemen – were the riders Men, or Orcs?
I’m particularly interested in the horses. Were they horses like the Nazguls' or MOS', or something completely different?
Where in the Ephel Duath are the stables to keep the horses,…
I'm thinking the stables would greatly resemble those of King Augeas.
….or the grass for them to graze in?
I’m thinking they were as vegetarian as the orcs.
7. What are the advantages and disadvantages of this gear (iron shoes) for the Orcs?
Protects the feet from foot long thorns. Today’s “Iron Boots” are used in gyms to strengthen the legs. And they’re great for accelerating hot foot gags. Plus you can hear them coming a mile away.
The disadvantage is that they’re so last age. Plus you can hear them coming a mile away.
8. When I led ‘The Black Gate is Closed’, I expressed dislike of Tolkien’s often describing orcs as beasts. Is ‘iron-shod’ a similar phrase, implying that orcs are bovine?
I thought it more a reference to the iron shod German boots of WWI. (See above.)
9. Are the bridges the same?
Don’t think so, though I imagine Eastern Dwarves built it.
Is this bridge also without kerb or rail?
It seems to have a “low parapet”.
Is it curving?
I wouldn’t think so.
10. Is ‘flying’ a description of the type of bridge, or is the adjective used merely to convey a sense of danger and giddyness?
A “flying bridge” is an auxiliary bridge on a boat. Though I always compared the bridge to a flying buttress in that it might be actually part of the support of a greater structure that has a secondary use as a bridge. But “flying” is often used in the military to mean “temporary”, in which case the hobbits were lucky.
11. The pursuers seem to head for this very bridge. Why?
It’s the only way there.
Were the Hobbits observed – and if so, how come they weren’t caught after the drop they took?
I assume not since they weren’t. But even if they were, one could assume that Mordor cavalry is used to foot soldiers getting quickly out of their way to avoid being trampled to death, even to the point of the soldiers jumping off bridges.
‘Well, here goes, Mr. Frodo,’ said Sam. ‘Good-bye!’
Kind of reminds me of the jump in “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid".
As it is, Sam’s farewell is quite premature; the hobbits survive the fall, and begin to feel what Mordor itself is like. Next time, we’ll discuss the atmosphere of the new country they find themselves in – which as I suggested in the previous thread before, is Middle-Earth’s version of Hell (to appease Beren IV, the present version of Hell). We will especially consider it’s effect on Frodo.
And it sort of reminds me of the story of Br'er Rabbit and the Briar Patch.
And a last question – one might say Frodo entered Mordor three times: he was carried into it (as a prisoner, by Shagrat’s troops), he dashed right into it, and he fell into it.
12. How do these three relate to each other – in the story, and as ways to enter Hell?
But Frodo was also carried into Rivendell, dashed into the Dimrill Dale, and fell into the Withywindle, and those aren’t entrances to H-E-double-hockey-sticks.
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The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Nov 18 2008, 3:21am
Post #3 of 18
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"I think the Nazgul felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if dozens of orcs had cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced." A little Star Wars infringement into the Star Trek universe, eh?  Just don't compare Shelob to a giant amoeba...
That's quite right about why the Nazgûl did not notice Frodo and Sam: he - and the orcs - were expecting that whoever went through the gate, was headed out of Mordor. No one enters that place of their own free will!
Interesting about the term "flying bridge". Tolkien, of course, would have been familiar with it. But I can't imagine this bridge between the two ridges being merely temporary. I've assumed it to mean a type of arch which "flies" a great distance between supports, out of necessity due to the depth of the ravine.
And as for Br'er Rabbit...here's another amazing coincidence from BotR:
"'Arrrgh!' screamed an impatient Nozdrul, who, by coincidence, happened to be named Argh. 'C'mon, let's cream this creep! The boss said take his Ring and croak him then 'n' there!'
Frito's mind raced. He decided to play his last card.
'Well dat's sho' nuff fine wit me, 'cause ah sho' doan wan' you t' do the bad thing to' po' li'l me!' said Frito, bugging out his eyes and rolling them like ball bearings.
'Har har har!' chortled another Rider. 'What can you think of that's worse than what we're gonna do with ya?' The fiends drew closer to hear the terrible fear Frito harbored in his breast.
The boggie whistled and pretended to play the banjo. He then sang a verse of 'Ole Man Ribber' as he ambled back and forth on shuffling feet, scratched his woolly head, and danced a cakewalk while picking watermelon seeds from his ears, all with natural rhythm.
'Sure can dance,' muttered one of the Riders.
'Sure gonna die!' screamed another, thirsting for Frito's throat.
'Sho' I gwine t' die,' drawled Frito. 'Yo' kin do mos' anythin' t' po' li'l me, Br'er Nozdrul, so long as yo' please doan throw me in dat briar patch ober dere!'
At this all the sadistic Riders sniggered.
'If that's what you're scared of most,' bellowed a voice full of malice, 'then that's what we'll do to you, ya little jerk!'
Frito felt himself lifted by a horny black hand and flung far over the Gallowine and into the scrubby bush on the other side. Gleefully, he stood up and fished out the Ring, making sure it still hung on its chain."
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"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Nov 18 2008, 3:49am
Post #4 of 18
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Is it derived from "going"? I just watched that section of Song of the South, where Brer Rabbit pronounces "going" more or less as "goan". By the way, Tolkien mentions "Brer Rabbit" in his drafts for "On Fairy-stories".
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Nov. 10-16 for "The Tower of Cirith Ungol".
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And we're discussing Tolkien's classic essay, "On Fairy-stories", Oct. 20-Nov. 30. This week:
"Men dressed up as talking animals may achieve buffoonery or mimicry, but they do not achieve Fantasy."
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Nov 18 2008, 10:35am
Post #5 of 18
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Just a quick thought, in response to one of your questions:
8. When I led ‘The Black Gate is Closed’, I expressed dislike of Tolkien’s often describing orcs as beasts. Is ‘iron-shod’ a similar phrase, implying that orcs are bovine?
I never heard of bovines being shod - I could be wrong, maybe there is a way of shoeing oxen or buffalo or something, but I think it would be hard to shoe a creature with cloven hoofs. Now equines are shod, or at least horses are, but they are relatively noble creatures, and maybe the orcs would actually be flattered by the comparison!
On the other hand, iron-soled boots were commonly used by poorer people in the past - they are hard-wearing if uncomfortable and noisy. I still remember boys in my class in primary school who came to school in iron-soled clogs. We actually envied their ability to strike sparks off stones as they kicked them! Iron-soled shoes seem like exactly the kind of thing that the orcs would wear, and don't particularly make me think of animals at all.
And as I said in that earlier thread where you expressed your dislike of the comparison of orcs to beasts (thanks for the link, I'd forgotten all that!) the orcs do seem like animals to the hobbit chroniclers, especially when they see large, faceless groups of them. On another level, they are perhaps expressions of the animal-like lower brain that we all still have - all selfish urges and aggression. Whereas the Elves seem to represent our higher brain functions, where we are creative, imaginative and wise.
Farewell, friends! I hear the call.
The ship’s beside the stony wall.
Foam is white and waves are grey;
beyond the sunset leads my way.
Bilbo's Last Song
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Nov 18 2008, 1:04pm
Post #6 of 18
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Gwine to run all day!
I'll bet my money on de bob-tail nag,
Somebody bet on de bay."
"Going" it is. I'm assuming that Stephen Foster expected "gwine" to be pronounced g'wyn, making a short syllable followed by a long one. I find that he tended to exaggerate the dialect...or did he? Would "Song of the South", being a Disney production, have had the dialect toned down for appeal to most audiences? (It's been long since I've seen that!)
(I've yet to get that latest "On Fairy-stories". The American southern dialect would have been another philological fascination for Tolkien.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Nov 18 2008, 2:05pm
Post #7 of 18
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So it rhymes with "wine"? Or with "win"? //
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Nov. 10-16 for "The Tower of Cirith Ungol".
****************************************
And we're discussing Tolkien's classic essay, "On Fairy-stories", Oct. 20-Nov. 30. This week:
"Men dressed up as talking animals may achieve buffoonery or mimicry, but they do not achieve Fantasy."
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How to find old Reading Room discussions.
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sador
Gondolin
Nov 18 2008, 2:17pm
Post #8 of 18
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I might have made it because I was thinking in two languages simultanously - never a good thing to do!
Anyway, do you consider the iron-shod orcs to be actually lower-class?
And you do have later in this chapter Sam wishing for an orc-hide.
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
In the Land of Mordor were the Shadows lie.
"And thither we are going against my wish. Who will lead us now in this deadly dark?" - Boromir, ‘A Journey in the Dark’.
Join us in the Reading Room for 'The Land of Shadow'!
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Nov 18 2008, 2:31pm
Post #9 of 18
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******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Nov 18 2008, 3:13pm
Post #10 of 18
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Anyway, do you consider the iron-shod orcs to be actually lower-class?
Yes, I think of the orcs as being based on an image of the urban English working class. I think they represent the debased society that came about after the Industrial Revolution, when people left their roots in the country and came to work in the new industries in the cities. It reflects the impoverished culture of gangs and lawless behaviour that still exists in most industrialized cities of the world today.
In my youth, the iron-soled clogs were worn mostly by people who worked in the cotton mills in our town in Lancashire - here's a short article I found with someone else's reminiscences. Those cotton mills were really at the heart of the English Industrial Revolution, and were still going strong until WWII, after which they all closed down. But my dad worked there as a boy (they started work at 12 years old back then). His job was to run errands by darting back and forth through the pounding looms - one false move and he would have been hit and probably killed. It was so loud that you couldn't make yourself heard even to the person next to you, so the workers learned to lip-read.
To me, Tolkien's orcs sound like English working-class gang-members, and Peter Jackson followed his lead. In fact the movie-orcs in the Tower of Cirith Ungol remind me more than anything of soccer hooligans from two opposing teams suddenly finding the perfect excuse for a fight!
(By the way, apologies for not being able to resist a little dig at your mistake about the bovines...)
I might have made it because I was thinking in two languages simultanously
I speak French, so I know how useful it can be sometimes to be able to think in two languages, however it can lead to interference in the signals sometimes too, can't it?
Farewell, friends! I hear the call.
The ship’s beside the stony wall.
Foam is white and waves are grey;
beyond the sunset leads my way.
Bilbo's Last Song
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Nov 18 2008, 3:24pm
Post #11 of 18
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I find that he tended to exaggerate the dialect...or did he?
It's the way this old country boy, the entire family, and all the neighbors pronounced it way back when. "I'm gwine go to town." The first thing when we moved to the big city was the school district put me in speech class. They just didn't have no respect for regional dialect.
But I can't imagine this bridge between the two ridges being merely temporary.
It may have been freshly and hastily built for the invasion of Gondor.
I've assumed it to mean a type of arch which "flies" a great distance between supports, out of necessity due to the depth of the ravine.
That's mainly what I think. Like flying buttresses.
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The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Nov 18 2008, 3:30pm)
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Nov 18 2008, 3:26pm
Post #12 of 18
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I prefer them shaken, not stirred
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Just don't compare Shelob to a giant amoeba...
"Devil in the Dark".
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Nov 18 2008, 4:17pm
Post #13 of 18
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between Shelob and a Horta!
The Horta was protecting its eggs, and could be reasoned with once an appropriate means of communication was established.
I doubt Shelob paid much attention to her eggs, except as a possible snack once they hatched; and even Morgoth couldn't control her.
But the term "devil in the dark" does describe her well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Nov 18 2008, 4:30pm
Post #14 of 18
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I imagine if the miners of Janus VI had intially written about Hortas the story would be similar to what the hobbits wrote about Shelob. If only there had been a Vulcan, er, that is an Elf, along to do a mind meld, er, that is, a sanwe-latya, it all might have turned out so differently!
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The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Nov 18 2008, 4:31pm)
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Elvenhome
Nov 18 2008, 5:20pm
Post #15 of 18
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I don't have anything to add, but I do have to say
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this post made me laugh out loud, especially "Many are called but few are Frodo." Heee!
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
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"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
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Curious
Gondolin
Nov 20 2008, 11:08pm
Post #16 of 18
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1. Is this that one needs to ‘screw oneself up’ in order to cross the border, or is there actually something in Mordor which calls the hobbits to it?
Yes.
2. Is this also such a case, of Frodo being called?
I never thought of it that way. He isn't acting fey as he did when Shelob got him, or drunk as he did when he walked towards the bridge in Morgul Vale, and Sam is running right along with him, not holding back or trying to stop him. And aren't they already in Mordor at this point? Isn't the tower inside Mordor?
3. In that case, why isn’t he called to the Nazgul on the battlement? And how could the Nazgul miss him – after all we’ve learned of them?
When he isn't under the influence of the Ring or acting fey, Frodo's first instinct is to hide from the Nazgul. As for how the Nazgul missed him, that is convenient, and a bit of a stretch. I suppose the best argument might be that the tower is completely undefended, and therefore the Nazgul is not about to leave until reinforcements arrive. Also, in this part of the book the Nazgul tend to operate from a distance, as generals, rather than doing the dirty work themselves.
Still, it seems like a very long time before anyone pursues Sam and Frodo, even though there are very few paths leading away from the tower. And then it's just a couple of orcs following them, instead of a small patrol, at least. But we'll get to that later.
4. Do you think the Nazgul came in answer to [Shagrat's] calls? Or was he heard in the outer forts?
I always thought Shagrat was calling to one of the orcs who, unbeknownst to Shagrat, had been killed. And I always thought the Nazgul answered the Silent Watchers. The outer forts may have answered the Nazgul or the Silent Watchers or both -- or maybe Shagrat had personally alerted them to what had happened.
5. Where did the pursuers come from?
The camps inside Mordor.
6. I’m particulary interested by the horsemen – were the riders Men, or Orcs? Where in the Ephel Duath are the stables to keep the horses, or the grass for them to graze in?
Probably the horsemen are men. We know men are stationed in Mordor, and we have never heard of orcs riding horses. The stables are part of the camps Sam and Frodo see, and the horses probably eat straw imported from the slave plantations, not fresh grass.
7. What are the advantages and disadvantages of this gear (iron shoes) for the Orcs?
Advantages: cheap, wears well. Disadvantages: noisy, heavy, slows you down, not much grip.
8. When I led ‘The Black Gate is Closed’, I expressed dislike of Tolkien’s often describing orcs as beasts. Is ‘iron-shod’ a similar phrase, implying that orcs are bovine?
Not bovine, certainly. There is a similarity to horses, but there really were iron-shod troops, as well.
9. Are the bridges the same? Is this bridge also without kerb or rail? Is it curving?
I'm not sure. This bridge seems much wider than the one in Moria.
10. Is ‘flying’ a description of the type of bridge, or is the adjective used merely to convey a sense of danger and giddyness?
I took it as descriptive. It implies that the bridge is supported at both ends, rather than in the middle. Most importantly, it implies that the bridge is high above the bottom of the chasm.
11. The pursuers seem to head for this very bridge. Why? Were the Hobbits observed – and if so, how come they weren’t caught after the drop they took?
Apparently the hobbits were not observed. Still, even if they were not observed it seems strange to me that it so long for someone to follow them. I'll mark it up to the lack of effective leadership, since all the superior leadership is focused on the war.
And a last question – one might say Frodo entered Mordor three times: he was carried into it (as a prisoner, by Shagrat’s troops), he dashed right into it, and he fell into it.
12. How do these three relate to each other – in the story, and as ways to enter Hell?
I'm not sure there is any significance to this, and I'm not sure that Frodo entered Mordor more than once.
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sador
Gondolin
Nov 21 2008, 8:01am
Post #17 of 18
(1814 views)
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Have you read 'Shardik' by Richard Adams?
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The three ways of entering Hell correspond to his description of the Streels of Urtah.
As a matter of fact, I'm sure Adams owes Tolkien a lot; but I've never seen anyone mention that debt. Perhaps because all they concentrate upon is 'Watership Down'.
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
In the Land of Mordor were the Shadows lie.
"And thither we are going against my wish. Who will lead us now in this deadly dark?" - Boromir, ‘A Journey in the Dark’.
Join us in the Reading Room for 'The Land of Shadow'!
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