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Mishka
Lindon
May 30 2008, 9:00am
Post #151 of 238
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Daniel Radcliffe or Jack Black ??? ....don't think so!
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  I can't take any source that could suggest Daniel or Jack for the Bilbo seriously....It just doesn't make any sense to even suggest them! Daniel, well no matter how people comment on his acting - is Harry Potter and Jack Black is great, but not as Bilbo! He was funny in the MTV LOTR spoof and that was fine, but Bilbo? So I wouldn't worry too much about these rumours. Anyways we were told that we won't find out for some time yet, so keep chewing your nails guys!!! Hahaha!
As for me, I keep my fingers crossed for James McAvoy, I think he could be an excellent Bilbo! This rumour is the only one that makes sense!
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Emma-Belle
Lindon
May 30 2008, 10:21am
Post #152 of 238
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I think James McAvoy would be fantastic, i think he has a bit of a Pippin/Frodo look about him. And Bilbo was around the same age as Bilbo when he went on his journey.
I was totally amazed by his performance in the Last King of Scotland.
I know I live in my own little world, but it's OK they know me here!
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deej
Dor-Lomin
May 30 2008, 12:00pm
Post #153 of 238
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I would hope most of us here would know not to believe everything we read on the internet, but thanks again for setting things straight.
"...and back again."
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Timdalf
Ossiriand
May 30 2008, 12:11pm
Post #154 of 238
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I think McAvoy is too young... Black too saucy, too non-bumbling... and Radcliffe both of these... My vote is for Paul Giamatti... recently in "John Adams" on HBO (I think!) and did the orangutan part, Limbo, in the remake of "Planet of the Apes"... He has just the right whiney, wheedly, bourgeoisness, simpering love of comfort that could turn in to real moral fibre and toughness!!
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Altaira
Superuser
May 30 2008, 12:46pm
Post #155 of 238
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Lol, {Perehdil lover} It turns out you're exactly right!
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I think you need a hug too. At least reading this sub-thread has given me a chuckle this a.m.  It reminds me of the "who's on first?" comedy skit.
I got what you meant the first time and, according to Tolkien, you're right!
From the beginning of "The Shadow of the Past":
"As time went on, people bagan to notice that Frodo also showed signs of good 'preservation': outwardly heretained the appearance of a robust and energetic hobbit just out of his tweens."
And... on one of Gandalf's visits: "Ah well eh? said Gandalf. "You look the same as ever, Frodo!"
So, you're exactly right! Even though Frodo was 50 when he set out on his journey, he would have looked much younger than Bilbo at 50.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
TORn Calendar
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xy
Nargothrond
May 30 2008, 1:09pm
Post #156 of 238
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When I was reading Hobbit or LOTR books I had my own image of characters. PJ and his team in the LOTR trilogy did pleased me with Bilbo and Gandalf...Some others were not so fitting for me But the only charascter in the movie I cannot stand is Frodo. He is TOO young, TOO child-like. I don't want to see such a Bilbo in the Hobbit movies. If not sir Ian, then anyone looking like him- that what i just want to see. But no way new Frodo or (even worse!) Harry Potter! Please do not ruin the legend!
I don't think I had anyone's image when I read the books and while I mostly liked the actor LOTR choices, the three that stick out to me where Frodo, Aragorn and Arwen.
Frodo was too young, they should have used someone older (and hopefully they will for Hobbit), and not at all up to the role (as opposed to the wonderful Sean Astin who pretty much saves they day hobbit-wise in the movies). I liked Mortensen as the mysterious Strider but he did not convince me as "king of Men" Aragorn, again someone a tad older would have fit the bill better. Arwen...no way. Just a pretty face and nothing of the elegance and timeless grace that the movie Galadriel had.
Martin Freeman ? He did looked scared enough in Hitchhiker's guide, but I'm not sure he'd be a good Bilbo. So far, unless something major is preventing it, I say keep Ian Holm as Bilbo.
(This post was edited by xy on May 30 2008, 1:11pm)
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Solicitr
Mithlond
May 30 2008, 1:31pm
Post #157 of 238
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We have to be confident. PJ (and team) have picked the right Merry, Pippin, Sam (and Bilbo) so it can be done again with the young Bilbo,
And absolutely the wrong Frodo.
I'm not confident about *anything* that has PJ's fingerprints on it. I can only hope that GdT succeeds in making this his own movie, telling J/W/B to get stuffed when he has to.
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Solicitr
Mithlond
May 30 2008, 1:39pm
Post #158 of 238
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Remember, the Ring slowed down or stopped the aging process. Bilbo was 50, when he got the Ring, halfway through his life. (As Hobbits usually live to be around 100, Men around 70, that's a 35-40 old human). Frodo, on the other hand, was 33 and just coming of age, so probably looked more like a 20-year-old or slightly older. .
No, no, no! Hobbits did *not* mature any more slowly than Men.
Be that as it may, Bilbo is quite clearly described as "a middle-aged bachelor." McAvoy is too young. It's essential that Bilbo be seen as one so old as to be set in his ways, not inclined to be adaptable. or tolerant of new experiences. Reread 'The Quest of Erebor' in UT or The Annotated Hobbit.
I wouldn't mind Ricky Gervase. A few years ago, Bob Hoskins would have been almost perfect,.
(btw, Ian Holm himself has said that his health isn't up to the rigors of playing Bilbo. He's off the table).
(This post was edited by Solicitr on May 30 2008, 1:45pm)
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marlonbrando76
Lindon
May 30 2008, 1:55pm
Post #159 of 238
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James McAvoy look fine for me! like in this picture!
very good actor, i will love to see jack black, ricky gervais and stephen fry like three dwarf of the company! they are great and i will love if Del toro and Jackson look for them Together
 
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
May 30 2008, 2:02pm
Post #160 of 238
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Hobbits come of age at 33. They tend to be about 40 when their eldest children are born. And they live to be 100 "as often as not". Clearly they age more slowly than humans in the real world. So when you say that hobbits "mature" no more slowly than humans, do you mean that they are fully grown at 18-21, and merely delayed in official adulthood by custom?
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Join us May 26-Jun. 1 for "The Road to Isengard".
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
May 30 2008, 2:06pm
Post #161 of 238
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Frodo was 50 but looked 33, while Pippin was 28.
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Some people here think a hobbit at 33 would look like a human at 21; others disagree. But Frodo wouldn't look 50.
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us May 26-Jun. 1 for "The Road to Isengard".
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merklynn
Menegroth
May 30 2008, 2:14pm
Post #162 of 238
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Just for the record, both my wife and I think Ian Holm makes an almost irreplaceable Bilbo. The difference WAS that she didn't want to accept Holm would not be playing Bilbo in the majority of the new films, while I could. Now both of us are nearly on the same page. I think Holm is charming and great in the role. But its time for Martin Freeman to take up the reins and really shine as the befuddled "nearly middle-aged" movie Bilbo.
I have been a Freeman for Bilbo supporter from the very beginning. I wonder how many of us there really are out there? I hope you are listening Guillermo! ;-) LOL
At least give him a shot at an audition... right?
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merklynn
Menegroth
May 30 2008, 2:18pm
Post #163 of 238
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Facts from UT aren't really facts for the films...
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Be that as it may, Bilbo is quite clearly described as "a middle-aged bachelor." McAvoy is too young. It's essential that Bilbo be seen as one so old as to be set in his ways, not inclined to be adaptable. or tolerant of new experiences. Reread 'The Quest of Erebor' in UT or The Annotated Hobbit.
Not disagreeing with you at all, but remember that the Quest of Erebor material is off limits to the films, so as a guideline of Bilbo's age it does not hold that much weight.
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Solicitr
Mithlond
May 30 2008, 2:18pm
Post #164 of 238
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Hobbits come of age at 33. They tend to be about 40 when their eldest children are born. And they live to be 100 "as often as not". Clearly they age more slowly than humans in the real world. So when you say that hobbits "mature" no more slowly than humans, do you mean that they are fully grown at 18-21, and merely delayed in official adulthood by custom?
Yes. Don't you see the joke? Tolkien the university professor, the man who spent his life dealing with college students in their Tweens, was having one of his wry pokes again, suggesting that a sensible society wouldn't consider the young rascals 'adults' and turn them loose.
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Solicitr
Mithlond
May 30 2008, 2:21pm
Post #165 of 238
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Be that as it may, Bilbo is quite clearly described as "a middle-aged bachelor." McAvoy is too young. It's essential that Bilbo be seen as one so old as to be set in his ways, not inclined to be adaptable. or tolerant of new experiences. Reread 'The Quest of Erebor' in UT or The Annotated Hobbit.
Not disagreeing with you at all, but remember that the Quest of Erebor material is off limits to the films, so as a guideline of Bilbo's age it does not hold that much weight.
It can't be used directly of course: but certainly the filmmakers can and should do their research using all available material. WETA could design the Ring of Barahir according to the description given in off-limits material, because the LR mentions it but doesn't say what it looked like. Frankly any attempt to write/film the Unexpected Party without a (background) knowledge of TQFE would be fatuous
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merklynn
Menegroth
May 30 2008, 2:26pm
Post #166 of 238
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It can't be used directly of course: but certainly the filmmakers can and should do their research using all available material. WETA could design the Ring of Barahir according to the description given in off-limits material, because the LR mentions it but doesn't say what it looked like. Frankly any attempt to write/film the Unexpected Party without a (background) knowledge of TQFE would be fatuous
I understand that, but what I'm saying is that its easier not to be tied down by facts, when they come from sources that are supposed to be off-limits. So if they wanted to ignore some of the age facts from UT, it would not be hard for them to justify. Of course, something humans are notorious for is being able to justify almost any action, no matter how deplorable or "inhuman".
Personally though, I don't mind a slightly younger Bilbo, but the actor should be at least in his 30s.
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Peredhil lover
Doriath
May 30 2008, 2:47pm
Post #169 of 238
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The hug is very appreciated! 
Glad this discussion gave you at least a good chuckle! And thanks for the exact quote - I was at work and didn't have my book handy to type it up. It was just what I had in mind when I tried to explain.
This whole age thing can be a bit confusing, as we have seen, and I fear the movies didn't exactly help with this, more or less leaving out the 17-year-gap between the Long-Expected Party and Frodo's leaving.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
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Peredhil lover
Doriath
May 30 2008, 2:58pm
Post #170 of 238
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give me any source for that claim? For I agree competely with N.E. Brigand here. He said exactly what I believe - and most people I know, too, I might add.
To you it may be an academical joke, but it is not practical at all. To me it makes absolutely no sense to force people to wait another 12 years after they are adult to truly declare them adult. Which parents would want to feed their adult children another tweive years, to be responsible for them, not to allow them to go out and care for themselves? No, I doubt very much the Hobbits would do that - they are much too down-to-earth for this sort of joke.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
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Nerwen Altáriel
Registered User
May 30 2008, 3:15pm
Post #171 of 238
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I don't think I had anyone's image when I read the books and while I mostly liked the actor LOTR choices, the three that stick out to me where Frodo, Aragorn and Arwen.
Frodo was too young, they should have used someone older (and hopefully they will for Hobbit), and not at all up to the role (as opposed to the wonderful Sean Astin who pretty much saves they day hobbit-wise in the movies). I liked Mortensen as the mysterious Strider but he did not convince me as "king of Men" Aragorn, again someone a tad older would have fit the bill better. Arwen...no way. Just a pretty face and nothing of the elegance and timeless grace that the movie Galadriel had.
I agree with you about Arwen (I didn't like how the character was scripted nor Liv's performance) and about Galadriel (Kate Blanchet was perfect). About an actor older than Mortensen, I'm not sure.
Martin Freeman ? He did looked scared enough in Hitchhiker's guide, but I'm not sure he'd be a good Bilbo. So far, unless something major is preventing it, I say keep Ian Holm as Bilbo. It's so difficult to understand that's impossible??? 
(This post was edited by Nerwen Altáriel on May 30 2008, 3:24pm)
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Woodyend
Mithlond
May 30 2008, 3:23pm
Post #172 of 238
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I must be behind the times, why is this material off limits?
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Not disagreeing with you at all, but remember that the Quest of Erebor material is off limits to the films, so as a guideline of Bilbo's age it does not hold that much weight.
It can't be used directly of course: but certainly the filmmakers can and should do their research using all available material. WETA could design the Ring of Barahir according to the description given in off-limits material, because the LR mentions it but doesn't say what it looked like. Frankly any attempt to write/film the Unexpected Party without a (background) knowledge of TQFE would be fatuous
May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!
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Solicitr
Mithlond
May 30 2008, 3:24pm
Post #173 of 238
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And could you please give me any source for that claim?
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How about Christopher Tolkien?
Some people *believe* Balrogs have wings- but that doesn't make 'em right. 
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Solicitr
Mithlond
May 30 2008, 3:26pm
Post #174 of 238
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JRRT's 1969 film-license agreement applies specifically to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, only. Nothing outside the covers of those books falls within the rights Zaentz/NL/TW own.
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Solicitr
Mithlond
May 30 2008, 3:29pm
Post #175 of 238
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This was an extended-family society.
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To me it makes absolutely no sense to force people to wait another 12 years after they are adult to truly declare them adult. Which parents would want to feed their adult children another tweive years, to be responsible for them, not to allow them to go out and care for themselves?
But that's exactly what hobbits did, at least in the great Holes. Young-adult Tooks and Brandybucks never moved out, even when they got married.
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