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noWizardme
Half-elven
Jan 1 2025, 1:07pm
Post #1 of 3
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Happy New Year (except in Gondor)
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'Noon?' said Sam, trying to calculate. 'Noon of what day?'
'The fourteenth of the New Year,' said Gandalf; or if you like, the eighth day of April in the Shire-reckoning. But in Gondor the New Year will always now begin upon the twenty-fifth of March when Sauron fell, and when you were brought out of the fire to the King. He has tended you, and now he awaits you. You shall eat and drink with him. When you are ready I will lead you to him.'
LOTR Field of Cormallen
By co-incidence, I have just been reading a fun thing about 25 March being (one definition of) New Year in England until 1750.
And - although of course I don't know and maybe anyone else would be guesing too - I wonder whether Tolkien put Sauron's downfall on 25 March on purpose because it is Lady Day (the Feast of the Annunciation)
There is, it looks to me, a bit of that going on in Tolkien 's timeline for Frodo's adventures. The Fellowship leaves Rivendell on 25 December - an unremarkable date to them, though one that has a significance for many of Tolkien's readers.
And Bilbo and Frodo's birthday (and the beginning of Frodo's long walk on 22nd September ) is exactly the Autumnal equinox in 2025, though it is not that date every year (23rd September in 2026, for example).
And I expect there are could be others - either dates that Tolkien might have chosen on purpose, or meaningless co-incidences from Tolkien's point of view, but which nonetheless are fun or meaningful for one reader or another.
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"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
(This post was edited by noWizardme on Jan 1 2025, 1:09pm)
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Eldy
Tol Eressea
Jan 2 2025, 5:54am
Post #2 of 3
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... to you, noWiz, and to everyone else here. :)
And - although of course I don't know and maybe anyone else would be guesing too - I wonder whether Tolkien put Sauron's downfall on 25 March on purpose because it is Lady Day (the Feast of the Annunciation) There is, it looks to me, a bit of that going on in Tolkien 's timeline for Frodo's adventures. The Fellowship leaves Rivendell on 25 December - an unremarkable date to them, though one that has a significance for many of Tolkien's readers.
Tolkien noted in "Nomenclature of The Lord of the Rings" that although, as you say, December 25th was not a date of significance to the characters, "Dec. 25 (setting out) and March 25 (accomplishment of quest) were intentionally chosen by me" (qtd. in Hammond & Scull, The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion, p. 781). I suspect he made this decision largely due to the traditional belief that Jesus was crucified on March 25th, though that's tied to the dating of the Feast of the Annunciation since the Church Fathers apparently liked the parallel of Jesus being conceived on the same day he died.* I can't say for sure whether Tolkien decided to put the postwar Gondorian new year on the 25th because Lady Day was once observed as the new year, but I don't think there's any doubt he knew of that history.
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* I would normally link to a source for these statements, but the first several Google results I found while checking if I remembered correctly all contained both religious and political content, and based on past experience I'm a bit gun-shy about posting links to non-political articles on potentially forbidden sites. :P So I direct anyone curious to know more towards Google itself.
(This post was edited by Eldy on Jan 2 2025, 5:54am)
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noWizardme
Half-elven
Jan 2 2025, 4:40pm
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How interesting - busy day 25 March!
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I didn't know that tradition about 25 March being the date of the crucifixion. And it seems there's more! According to the Catholic website, Aleteia, commenting on medieval beliefs:
Christians of ages past believed Jesus died on March 25 and ascribed a number of other important events to that day. March 25 was thought to be both the day of the creation of Adam and Eve as well as the day of their disobedience in the Garden. It was also counted as the day when Lucifer fell from Heaven and when the Israelite people passed through the Red Sea to begin their journey to the promised land. Not surprisingly, tradition claims that it was also the day when Isaac was to be offered as a sacrifice by his father Abraham. It doesn't stop there. The Church continues to celebrate March 25 as the day when the archangel Gabriel visited the Blessed Virgin Mary and announced to her the news that she would bear the Son of God. ... While it is highly unlikely that these events all occurred on the same day, Christians wanted to emphasize the deep spiritual connections among them all. https://aleteia.org/...e-of-the-crucifixion
~~~~~~
"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
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