The Poetry of JRR Tolkien: "Cat" - Part 3: The Eliot Connection

[Darkstone]

See http://coral.lili.uni-bielefeld.de...bLex/OldPossum/oldpossumlex/oldpossumlex.html for TS Eliot’s Old Possum’s Book of Practical Cats.

How is this poem similar to those in Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats? How is it different?

Which of Eliot's cats does Tolkien's fat cat on the mat most resemble? Gus the Theatre Cat, living in the past? Bustopher Jones, the fat and happy Cat About Town? Dignified and long-lived Old Deuteronomy? The Old Gumbie Cat who merely seems to sit and sit and sit, but by night has a secret life? Another?

In The Naming of Cats Eliot proposes that cats have three names, each signifying something different. Their first name is the name that humans give them, and can be common or fancy. The second name is a nickname of sorts, quite dignified, and no other cat may share it. The third is a name that only a cat knows and will never tell. Whenever you see a cat deep in meditation, it is not simply dozing in the sun. It is contemplating this name, which is completely its own.

What do you think are the three names of Tolkien's fat cat on the mat?

Does Eliot’s The Naming of Cats share anything with the many names of some of Tolkien’s characters? Are Aragorn and Gandalf more cat-like than the other characters in LOTR?

Why are names so important to Tolkien and Eliot?

Is it then significant that the fat cat on the mat has no name? (Or rather, that we do not know its name(s)?) There are some characters in LOTR whose names we never know. Is the fat cat on the mat more like The Mouth of Sauron or more like Treebeard?

Is there a comparison between the vocabulary of Eliots’s nameplay and Tolkien’s wordplay?

Is Eliot’s secondary cat world comparable to Tolkien’s secondary hobbit world?


Next: The Blake Connection

 

[Dreamdeer]

Human-given name: Matt

Cat nickname: Fattie

Secret, unspeakable name: Leo!

 

[Curious]

How is this poem similar to those in Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats? How is it different?

I didn't have time to read all of Eliot's collection, and therefore can't answer all of your questions at this time, but I got the flavor of it. It was, I understand, originally written for children, but it has another level of meaning for adults. In that way it seems similar to Tolkien's poem. Eliot's collection is, of course, much longer, and has some complicated words in it -- although what child would recognize the word "pard" as meaning "leopard," and understand the reference to dark stars, a reference you had to explain to us?

What do you think are the three names of Tolkien's fat cat on the mat?

I haven't the faintest idea.

Does Eliot’s The Naming of Cats share anything with the many names of some of Tolkien’s characters? Are Aragorn and Gandalf more cat-like than the other characters in LOTR?

The secret name reminds me more of the dwarves, but Aragorn and Gandalf also had their secrets, represented by their secret names.

Why are names so important to Tolkien and Eliot?

I think Eliot is using the names as a metaphor for secrets, and imagining cats to be secretive. Tolkien to some extent does the same, but Tolkien also takes great care over the non-secret names, and I don't know if Eliot did the same.

Is it then significant that the fat cat on the mat has no name? (Or rather, that we do not know its name(s)?) There are some characters in LOTR whose names we never know. Is the fat cat on the mat more like The Mouth of Sauron or more like Treebeard?

More like Gimli, I think. The Mouth of Sauron had forgotten his name, which is different from keeping it secret. Treebeard might have shared his name with the hobbits if they had the patience to listen to it. Gimli, however, while perfectly friendly, had a secret name he shared with no one.

If I have time to read Eliot's collection more closely, I'll get to your other questions later -- but I'm not optimistic.

 

[Darkstone]

If I have time to read Eliot's collection more closely, I'll get to your other questions later -- but I'm not optimistic.

I'd kind of assumed people would be familiar with Eliot if only through the musical "Cats!" My bad.


BTW, love the Gimli comparison!

 

[N.E. Brigand]

 

[a.s.]

When you notice a cat in profound meditation,
[/url] The reason, I tell you, is always the same:
[/url]His mind is engaged in a rapt contemplation
[/url] Of the thought, of the thought, of the thought of his name:
[/url] His ineffable effable
[/url] Effanineffable
[/url]Deep and inscrutable singular Name.

I love "effanineffable".

I have never thought that perhaps the inscrutable Name of a cat had any larger meaning for Eliot, I always just enjoyed the Book of Practical Cats!

Did Tolkien read Old Possum prior to writing his fat cat contemplating on the mat?

What do you think are the three names of Tolkien's fat cat on the mat?

I'll try:

1. Mr. Tiger

2. Roothytoothy

3. He Who Walks In Thought Unbowed, Loud and Proud

Of course, we'll never know what a cat's inscrutible Singular Name really is, will we? We must just address him as "O Cat" if we wish to be polite.

a.s.