** "The Grey Havens" ** - Part 4: Torn in Two

[BallyWhooo]

Today, a discussion of the shortest section of the chapter.

A little more time has passed and Frodo calls for Sam. He reminds Sam that Bilbo’s 131st birthday will occur the following Thursday.

• Why do you think that Frodo chooses (or forgets) to mention that it is also his own birthday (his 53rd)?

Frodo asks Sam to ask Rose if they can go on a short trip together. Tolkien says that Frodo speaks wistfully when stating the fact that Sam can no longer be away from home for very long.

• Why “wistfully”? Dictionary.com defines “wistfully” as: "characterized by melancholy; longing; yearning". Which of these three best describes Frodo’s perspective? More than one? Why?

My interpretation of Sam’s response, “Well, not very well, Mr. Frodo” is that Sam is now uncomfortable.

• If you agree, is it because he shares Frodo’s wistfulness or because he does not?

It seems that Frodo senses Sam's uneasiness. “Of course not, never mind…” He tells Sam to promise Rose that he will not be gone more than 2 weeks. Sam discerns from this statement of the length of the journey, or otherwise assumes, that Frodo means to head east to Rivendell to see Bilbo and celebrate (belatedly) his birthday. He still doesn’t understand.

• Have you ever experienced a time when a friend could not understand the signals you were sending? Did not “see” that you had made some sort of decision or that some future event was imminent in your life? Is there “applicability” represented here for you?
• And do you think Tolkien was using this as an analogue to the story of the life of Christ, who often told his disciples both directly and indirectly what his future held for himself and them? John 14:1 – 5 tells of Jesus in the Upper Room with the disciples attempting to comfort them:

1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.” 5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” (NIV, emphasis mine)
Does this sound applicable?

Sam explains that he feels torn in two. He wants to be free to go with Frodo, but equally loves his family and home. Frodo responds by forboding that, “It will feel like that, I’m afraid.” We are left to wonder what Sam makes of that statement. But Frodo assures him that in time he will be healed of this particular distress and be content.

• Has Frodo’s foresight failed him? Is Sam really ever healed of this longing? If so, how do we explain his final (very brave) act of setting out to find Valinor (or probably more appropriately Tol Erresea) and Frodo?

TOMORROW: “My Publisher Can’t Stand My Title(s)”

 

[Modtheow]

I think that Frodo speaks wistfully in all the dictionary senses you quote: "characterized by melancholy, longing, yearning." Frodo is speaking wistfully because he hasn't made a successful re-entry into Shire life and he's still in a frame of mind where he would like to have Sam by his side on this journey just as he had in the first journey, but he also knows that isn't possible. He recognizes that Sam has successfully moved on and he, Frodo, hasn't. So he's longing or yearning for a time when things were different, and melancholy because he knows that he can't go back to that time and also, of course, because he knows he's leaving the Shire.

Sam's response shows how he is torn in two -- I think he shares Frodo's wistfulness to a degree, but he has a competing claim on him now that is also strong. I think he's uneasy because it's hard for him to figure out how to balance these two claims.

I think Frodo's foresight is pretty accurate. He predicts a certain number of Sam's children and the course of Sam's life. I'd like to think that Sam was generally content with a very full life. I think that a past sorrow can make the joys of a present life even more poignant.

When I think of where Gimli, Pippin, and Merry go at the end of their lives and where they are buried, I think that Tolkien needed to have the friends of the fellowship be together in death, even after long and prosperous individual lives. Sam seems to be part of this pattern as well.

 

[ElanorTX]

A little more time has passed and Frodo calls for Sam. He reminds Sam that Bilbo’s 131st birthday will occur the following Thursday.

• [*]Why do you think that Frodo chooses (or forgets) to mention that it is also his own birthday (his 53rd)? His own is not a record-setter. I think Frodo chooses to pass over it and also figures that Sam will remember.
  

Have you ever experienced a time when a friend could not understand the signals you were sending? Did not “see” that you had made some sort of decision or that some future event was imminent in your life?

• [*]I've missed the suicidal signals of a few others (no clients, thank God).
  [*]And do you think Tolkien was using this as an analogue to the story of the life of Christ, who often told his disciples both directly and indirectly what his future held for himself and them? John 14:1 – 5 tells of Jesus in the Upper Room with the disciples attempting to comfort them. Does this sound applicable? I think the scene in the Upper Room after the Resurrection, when Jesus is preparing for his Ascension, is even more apt.
  

Sam explains that he feels torn in two. He wants to be free to go with Frodo, but equally loves his family and home. Frodo responds by foreboding that, “It will feel like that, I’m afraid.” We are left to wonder what Sam makes of that statement. But Frodo assures him that in time he will be healed of this particular distress and be content.

• [*] Is Sam really ever healed of this longing? If so, how do we explain his final (very brave) act of setting out to find Frodo? I think Sam loves Rosie and the children dearly yet realizes that they will have normal lives and lifespans. His earlier and deeper commitment to Frodo is waiting for the proper time.
  

 

[CuriousG]

Why do you think that Frodo chooses (or forgets) to mention that it is also his own birthday (his 53rd)?
It's Frodo's modesty to not refer to himself.

Why “wistfully”? Dictionary.com defines “wistfully” as: "characterized by melancholy; longing; yearning". Which of these three best describes Frodo’s perspective? More than one? Why?
I echo Modtheow here.

If you agree, is it because he shares Frodo’s wistfulness or because he does not?
Sam knew that he was crucial in getting the quest accomplished, so he still felt a sense of being part of things greater than himself. He also felt responsibile for taking care of Frodo, the more so when he saw that Frodo wasn't flourishing along with the rest of the Shire. And they were war buddies, a bond that isn't easily broken and which requires mutual support for survival. So he was wistful that he had to choose between his family and Frodo. I think we all hate having to choose between two things we cherish.

Have you ever experienced a time when a friend could not understand the signals you were sending? Did not “see” that you had made some sort of decision or that some future event was imminent in your life? Is there “applicability” represented here for you?
Yes, this part is very well-written, and we're primarily immersed in Frodo's perspective. No fault of Sam's, but he just doesn't get it. Frodo probably doesn't know how to explain it all either. In my own life, at least, I have noticed people make a profound decision for their future, but I've only had the sense that they have made this decision, not what it was--that only comes later. So this interaction between them feels quite authentic.

And do you think Tolkien was using this as an analogue to the story of the life of Christ, who often told his disciples both directly and indirectly what his future held for himself and them?
Great connection! I never thought of this. Though Tolkien didn't model any character wholly on Christ, several do share elements with him. Frodo is on a higher spiritual plane now than Sam is, so even to try to explain it to him wouldn't mean Sam would understand. Frodo is ascending (without a painful crucifixion), and though he may not fit into the Shire, he has to be sad to leave it, and to leave all his friends too. Sam has to choose between Frodo and family, and Frodo is choosing between what he has and fought to preserve, and a higher existence in Valinor. While I'm happy that Frodo has earned this grace of entry from the Valar, I can't ever stop thinking that life in Valinor will always be lonely for him. Who does he really know there? Who does he talk to every day? Bilbo's pretty senile, and I can't imagine Gandalf pops in except for occasional visits. Ditto Galadriel, anyone else. Until Sam rejoins him, I think his life there would be pretty solitary. I could be wrong. Bilbo was perfectly happy, and had plenty of company, when he retired among the Elves of Rivendell. But Bilbo was more outgoing than Frodo. I get the sense he would be respected and honored, but left alone on a daily basis. Geez, this is depressing just writing about it.

Has Frodo’s foresight failed him? Is Sam really ever healed of this longing? If so, how do we explain his final (very brave) act of setting out to find Valinor (or probably more appropriately Tol Erresea) and Frodo?
Frodo's foresight was quite accurate: Sam just has to wait. Just as Arwen's fate was not to die until she had lost all that she had gained, Sam wouldn't leave the Shire until he had lost what he had gained. Mostly that means Rosie. True, he was leaving his kids behind, but they had grown to adulthood and started their own families, so he wouldn't see as much of them as he had as a father raising kids. I do get the sense that when Sam left the Shire, he did so without any regrets. There is something about the last stretch of that journey to Mount Doom where I think he and Frodo became brothers, so he was leaving one family behind to rejoin another.