tauriel role and radagast thing

M

Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)

Tol Eressea
Hello everybody, it´s been a wile for me since the last post, but i´ve been still reading your posts, the other day a feeling came tome about tauriel, maybe she is going to be the elf that is helping bilbo to escape of thranduil reach, but i feel that bilbo will do his part as in the book, just we have this she-elf around to help him, if you read that passage blbo is very alone for a long time and the dwarves basically are off the screen, and this could be a little bit boring on the screen so maybe its tauriel who leads the barrels down the river, with an invisible bilbo when other elfs aproach, and we have she helping him by providing him food that night when bilbo gets wet and suffers this cold maybe at the arrival to laketown she has a short interaction with bard or another character in lake town, or maybe the arrival of the dwarves is not wellcome in the townand tauriel has to defend them

on the other hand we have radagst, watching the videoblog 3 elrond is saying soething like this: there are some who not consider him wise, what you mean? you´re not the only guardians stand watch over middle earth, what do you feel, is he refering to radagast? is he at rivendell at the withe council? i guess yes, and by those words and the description of the character we can also imagine that radagst may show himself as a little bit crazy man, but still a very powerfull wizard if the ocassion requires it, what kind of role he will play? i dont know but maybe he will appear in the two movies,

here some feelings about the movie, sorry for my english again, and stay well everyone of you
GOD bless you!!!!!!!!!
 
1. If Tauriel does befriend and aid Bilbo in Thranduil's Realm, I would prefer her involvement to be minimal. She could give him a safe place to eat and rest after he gains her trust (or vice-versa). When Bilbo concocts his escape plan, Tauriel could provide him with a sleeping potion that he could slip into Galion's wine. If Tauriel is present at the Battle of the Five Armies, she could either tragically fall in battle, or she could be the one to find Bilbo afterward and take him back to the camp.

2. In the vidblog, Elrond could have been referring to Saruman instead of Radagast. It is no secret that Galadriel had wanted Gandalf to lead the White Council. It is possible that both she and Elrond have begun to question Saruman's judgement already, especially after he opposed attacking Dol Guldur in the last meeting of the Council, prior to the events of The Hobbit.

It may be telling that, after the Eagles carry the Company to the Carrock, Gandalf never seems to consider seeking help from his fellow Wizard, instead taking the others to Beorn, who he has never met. Perhaps Gandalf does not expect to find Radagast at home, since he should have already left to meet with the rest of the Council.
 
concerning Tauriel:

i've mentioned this, my pet theory about Tauriel, previously. Tauriel does not knowingly help Bilbo at all in rescuing the Dwarves and escaping Mirkwood. Thus Bilbo's accomplishment in that regard remains true to the book, as well it should. She unknowingly earns Bilbo's trust and admiration for doing good deeds in favor of the Dwarves at her own expense. Later, after the escape, as a show of his trust and admiration, he decides to go straight to her with the Arkenstone, and allows her to deliver him and/or the Arkenstone to Thranduil and Bard, thus earning her esteem in Tranduil's eyes. Further on, she returns the favor back, such as by saving Bilbo during Bof5As. She might die during the attempt, but my hope is that they continue as friends after the events of the story.

concerning Radagast:

I don't have a "pet theory" for Radagast, only some guesses. Possibly he gives Gandalf and/or Bilbo a token that Beorn would recognize. He might also give them something--a special word or phrase to call out, perhaps?-- for calling upon the Eagles. I think he will be shown as funny, eccentric, a bit crazy and unpredictable, but overall likeable. However, my fear is that he will be the most vocal supporter of Saruman as the leader of the White Council and will cast the deciding vote for choosing Saruman over Gandalf. I also fear that Radagast will come to realize that his trust in Saruman was misplaced and Saruman will set him up to be killed, and that, an scene laden with dramatic irony, Saruman will convincingly shed crocodile tears over the loss.
 
especially involving Saruman! I also am sure they'll squeeze in "Radagast the fool!" quote as well









video blog please
 
... the purpose would be to show why in the LOTR movies, nobody mentioned Radagast,or thought to seek his help and why in LOTR he neither appears on screen nor plays a role off screen. Having Radagast live, i.e., he stays in Middle Earth doing what he does, or perhaps he leaves on a quest somewhere, but without anyone ever mentioning him in LOTR, seems unsatisfying. I realize there may be other and better possibilities. I'm just saying I'm guessing and I fear that it might turn out that way.

BTW the prospect of Radagast dying in the TH movies isn't something I made up, and it's been discussed in a previous thread.
 
the Radagast ideas aren't invented by me, these are ideas that have been previously discussed, at least the part about his dying, and the idea that Gandalf must continue to trust Saruman by the end of the TH movies. I thank you nonetheless.

Regarding the line "Radagast the Fool" I'd like to see it included in the movie, but where/ in what context? is my question. Its unlikely that Saruman would say it to Gandalf b/c Gandalf has to trust Saruman by the end of the TH movies, for consistency with movie FOTR. Maybe Saruman says it to his own minion (?), to a representative of the Necromancer, or to the Necromancer himself (via palantir perhaps?). Or perhaps the Necromancer will say it?
 
...with the moth that Gandalf speaks to while he's a prisoner in Orthanc. Taken in the context of the trilogy, it's just a moth that happened to fly by. Those of us who had read the books know that it wasn't by accident that Gandalf was rescued, but that a messenger, sent by Radagast was what saved him. Maybe it would be possible to somehow tie this in with something that happens in The Hobbit, that way Radagast doesn't have to appear in the trilogy, and that absence doesn't have to be explained because we realize that he is, in fact, doing something proactive. [:)]
 
Saruman was not voted into leadership of the White Council. Galadriel wanted Gandalf to assume the position, but he declined after Saruman insisted that it was his own by right of being the White Wizard, head of the Order of the Secret Fire. All of this occurred when the Council of the Wise was revived by Galadriel in TA 2463, centuries before the events of The Hobbit.

I don't see Bilbo giving the Arkenstone to Tauriel. It is an unnecessary complication. She isn't in a position of leadership either among the Wood-elves or Men and his giving it to her secretly puts her in an awkward situation since she would have no alternate explanation for having the gem. It would be much better to leave Bilbo's presentation of the Arkenstone to Bard and the Elvenking stand as it is told in the book.
 
^^^ Therefore I would amend my guess to suggest that Radagast may have a role to play in lending Saruman key support for some decision that requires White Council consensus. Even if Saruman is the leader of the Council, maybe there's still certain decisions that require a vote . Perhaps the Council must choose between two proposed courses of action in dealing with Dol Goldur, a vote that forces Radagast to choose between Gandalf and Saruman, for example.

Even if Tauriel somehow ends up in an awkward situation, her earned esteem in Thranduil's eyes as having earned Bilbo's trust, thus prompting Bilbo to decide to relinquish the stone in the first place, would more than make up for any awkwardness. If anything, I would expect Thranduil to be impressed with Tauriel for snagging such an ally, albeit unknowingly on her part.

That said, I'm still not seeing how she'd be put in an awkward position by being the one to deliver Bilbo and the Arkenstone to Thranduil and Bard. Once Bilbo voluntarily places himself in her custody, there would be no secret for her to keep, all she has to do is deliver Bilbo to her king as she would have to do anyway. Along the lines of what you said, though, it's probably better that she deliver Bilbo along with the Arkenstone, rather than only the stone. That way, if any explanations would become necessary, Bilbo would be there to explain it, and the dialogue in the book can remain intact.

And finally, in my view the character Tauriel must have been meant to somehow meaningfully interact with Bilbo (more than just as Mirkwood Prison Guard #1 or Mirkwood Security Patrol #1 for examples, a role so minor that hiring Evangeline Lilly for the part wouldn't make sense). Having Bilbo go to Tauriel with the Arkenstone is the best way I can think of to connect those two characters without interfering with Bilbo's accomplishment of rescuing the Dwarves solo, unaided and undetected by an Elf. Without the Arkenstone connecting them, I'm not seeing any other opportunity for Tauriel to become part of Bilbo's story in the movie. After that opportunity passes, there's no other occasion in the story for Bilbo to interact with an Elf other than at Bo5As, which is too late for it to matter.
 
that they don't "create" something that doesn't flow with the book just for the sake of having a character appeal to a certain demographic to sell more tickets.

IMHO, there's nothing wrong with the way Tolkien had Bilbo deal with the Arkenstone. It was the result of everything he'd been through and how he'd grown as a Hobbit. He was a big boy by that time in the story and proved it by doing what he did in the end.

To introduce others takes away from his character, just like IMHO it took away from Frodo's character in LOTR.
 
^^ however, hoping for Tauriel to be omitted from the movie would be hoping for too much at this point, if that's what you're getting at. Now, the best we can hope for regarding Tauriel is that she will fit into the story in a way that allows the story to be adapted in a way that does honor to Tolkien's work and to Bilbo's story. In a way that preserves Bilbo's character from the book.

And you're right, there's nothing wrong with the way Bilbo dealt with the Arkenstone in the story. However, it's not important that he take the stone directly to Bard and Elvenking straight away. The important thing is that he decides to take it to the Elves and the Men, and that it ends up with Bard and the Elvenking.

Having Bilbo go to Tauriel first with the stone helps preserve his character, by leaving intact his accomplishment of rescuing the Dwarves without the aid or knowledge of an Elf . In contrast, having Tauriel help Bilbo with the rescue (which seems to be the alternate, competing theory I see most commonly advocated), or know of his existence but say nothing about it to the authorities, thus passively helping with the rescue, would take away from his accomplishment, and his character.

Also, going to Tauriel first is a chance for the movie to show more of Bilbo's character. It's a way for him to show approval of her for good deeds she did for the Dwarves, in the name of mercy, kindness, diplomacy, courtesy.

An added benefit in going to her first is that he chooses her because she had helped the Dwarves. This helps show that his actions are with the good of the Dwarves in mind, even when it seems like he's betraying them.
 
Last edited:
What if there was an impossible love story between an Elf and a Dwarf?

Maybe Kili and Tauriel are falling in love. That would be an "impossible" love story creating a lot of tension and drama. And this sub plot would reach a climax when Kili dies at the BOFA.

Maybe maybe not??
 
Last edited:
I feel that the interest love between tauriel and kili may it be showned in the movie, is not so impossible posibility, do you remember gimli being ashamed imfront of galadriel, in the book, is more obvious that gimli defended and was able to apreciate galadriel´s beauty, in the case of the hobbit movies, both kili and tauriel seem to be younger than galadriel and gimli, not a possible love but, men and elves arent supposed to stay together either, so maybe they will use it, appart of atract to the girl crowd of audience with a sexy dwarf as they say, what other reason to put so elvish like dwarf in the movie? there could be any reason, but i dont feel it so impossible

of course it is almost stratospheric change considering the book, but
 
Like you said it anticipates the relationship of Gimli and Galadriel. But wouldn't it diminish the extraordinary nature of that later relationship, so future audiences watching the films "in sequence" will go "Ah, that's just like Tauriel and Kili. All Dwarves must have a thing for Elves. No big deal."

Personally I'm agin' it.
 
I don't think it is a change. You might look at it as a story just not mentioned in the book. I also thought about Gimlis affection for Galadriel and this would be a mirror of that. That was in the LOTR book.

It depends on how the portray it. It could be shown not as a full love story, rather as an "impossible" attraction over the race borders. This affection grows slowly into love over the movies but it abruptly ends with Kilis death.

Imagine the two of them fighting together in the end of BOFA and also on opposite sides initially. Plot wise it is an interesting substory.

I think it is not that remote. And also the good looks of tauriel and Kili actors makes sense.
 
Last edited:
I think you are, but then if someone had told me that Jackson was going to have Frodo send Sam home from Cirith Ungol, I would have said "Peter Jackson is smarter than that." After that, I think anything is possible (although it would be a disaster if they were to do this).
 
It makes my stomach churn...I hope PJ has learned from the ten years of criticism of his LotR miss-steps and applies this to the Hobbit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top