Question regarding Dwarves being considered "of age".

B

Boromir Stark

Rivendell
I have been wondering recently about the age at which Dwarves are considered mature and "battle-ready".

At the time of LotR, Gimli is, I believe, around 125 years old. This means that at the time of The Hobbit, he would have been about 65. Now, some have suggested that the reason's for Gimli's non-participation in the Quest for Erebor was that he was not yet mature and at the age at which a Dwarf is considered battle-ready (what this age is supposed to be I have no idea, but I would harbour a guess at 70ish, since that is what age Fili and Kili are, roughly.)

Consider this though - about 150 years prior to the Quest for Erebor, a young Dain Ironfoot not only took part in the Battle of Azanulbizar, he single-handedly defeated and slew the Orcs leader, Azog. This was considered a great achievment not because he slew Azog, but because he was so incredibly young when he done it. At the time of this event, Dain was only 32 years old, which in Dwarf years is considered very young and several decades shy of what is believed to be battle-readiness.

So, what's the deal? Gimli is apprarently too young to take part in the Quest for Erebor, yet Dain Ironfoot fights in an arguably more danagerous scenario in the Battle of Azanulbizar at half the age?

I've saw some people say that the reason for Gimli not accompanying his father on the Quest was because their had to be an heir left behind to carry on the line should Gloin perish. And at first I thought "ok, that seems logical." Only, it doesn't. By that logic Dain should have stayed at home while Nain fought against the orcs [crazy]

Anyone got any thoughts on this? It's not particularly important in the grand scheme of things, but it has been on my mind for some time.
 
Gloin probably felt obliged to go, but why would he drag his son into it? He had to know there was a good chance they wouldn't be coming back
 
That's how he himself explains in "The Quest of Erebor". That Dáin fought at such a young age does not disprove his statement; As you say, Dáin's feat was noted as incredibly impressive for the fact that he was as young as he was. Dáin was an exception, Gimli was the norm.
 
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...was more of a crusade, a race-wide call for revenge that every dwarven house answered. In their desire for revenge, the dwarves may have been less critical of who was drafted, instead hoping for as great a host as they could muster. Dáin's feat would be impressive still, of course, but he might not have been the only youngling present; I believe Glóin may also have fought at Azanulbizar (he is noted as having been one of those who followed Thráin and Thorin to Dunland; I'm not sure if that is supposed to have happened instantly after the battle), though he was but 16.
 
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Gimli might not have seemed mature enough to go with his father. We don't know anything about his behaviour from his younger days.

Was Dain officially allowed to accompany the dwarf soldiers to Moria? Or did he pull an "Eowyn Maneuver" and disguise himself as an older warrior? Maybe his serious demeanor and earnestness overcame his youth in the eyes of his elders.
 
...was more of a crusade, a race-wide call for revenge that every dwarven house answered. In their desire for revenge, the dwarves may have been less critical of who was drafted, instead hoping for as great a host as they could muster. Dáin's feat would be impressive still, of course, but he might not have been the only youngling present; I believe Glóin may also have fought at Azanulbizar (he is noted as having been one of those who followed Thráin and Thorin to Dunland; I'm not sure if that is supposed to have happened instantly after the battle), though he was but 16.
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Still though... 30 years shy of maturity is a big stretch. Perhaps Dain was just overly mature (physically and otherwise) for his age, and was thus deemed eligible to fight despite his lack of years and experience.
 
by the time Gimli was born the birth rate among dwarves had dipped so low that children were very rare and their society's notion of maturity shifted so that one was still considered a child even at 60 something years of age.
 
With so many dwarves lost in the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, birthrates is bound to have taken a toll, and it makes sense that they'd be a little more vary about letting the next generation go out and risk their lives.
 
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by the time Gimli was born the birth rate among dwarves had dipped so low that children were very rare and their society's notion of maturity shifted so that one was still considered a child even at 60 something years of age.
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Sounds reminiscent of the Krogan in Mass Effect.
 
by the time Gimli was born the birth rate among dwarves had dipped so low that children were very rare and their society's notion of maturity shifted so that one was still considered a child even at 60 something years of age.
Click to expand...

Sounds reminiscent of the Krogan in Mass Effect.
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We are told that the kind of the dwarves increase slowly because women are at best 1/3 of the population and some never marry. It makes sense that they would guard their children well.

Of course this does not explain why Thorin would have allowed both Fili and KIli to come on the quest as they are so to speak the heir and the spare of Durin's line.
 
Was Dain officially allowed to accompany the dwarf soldiers to Moria? Or did he pull an "Eowyn Maneuver" and disguise himself as an older warrior? Maybe his serious demeanor and earnestness overcame his youth in the eyes of his elders.
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That has always been how I see the situation. I haven't read the Appendices again carefully, but for some reason I have the impression that Dain's killing Azog was a surprise attack.
 
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