*** Merry Discussion #3 - On The Road Again: From Rivendell to Fangorn ***

[oliphaunt]

Merry, Pippin and of course Sam freely accompany Frodo on "the Quest of Mount Doom" and set out from Rivendell with the Nine Walkers. Reaching Hollin and the Dimrill Dale, Gandalf addresses the company:

'We must go down the Silverlode into the secret woods, and so to the Great River, and then ---'
He paused.
'Yes, and where then?' asked Merry.
'To the end of the journey - in the end,' said Gandalf. - The Ring Goes South

Pretty lame answer, but being Gandalf he gets away with it. Then as the company rests and socializes, Aragorn draws away, watching south and west.

'What is the matter, Strider?' Merry called up. 'What are you looking for? Do you miss the East Wind?' - The Ring Goes South

1. Is Merry clever enough to question Gandalf but not bold enough to call out his lame answer? Is Merry observant enough to notice Aragorn is disturbed, but not aware enough to figure out why?

After an ill-fated attempt to climb the pass over Caradhras, Boromir carries Pippin back down to safety, while Aragorn carries Merry. As we've noted before, Aragorn seems to have an affinity with Merry. And yet again, Merry has to be rescued. Old Man Willow, the Barrow Downs, Bree, Weathertop, and now Caradhras.

Merry, and the other hobbits, don't help either with the defense against the wolves that attack the night after departing Caradhras. The company reaches the doors to Moria, and Merry asks:

'What does it mean by speak, friend, and enter?' asked Merry - The Ring Goes South

Unfortunately Gandalf doesn't think simply, and it takes quite nearly too long for him to realize:

'Merry, of all people, was on the right track. The opening word was inscribed on the archway all the time!...Quite simple. Too simple for a learned lore-master in these suspicious days.' - A Journey in the Dark

2. Why does Gandalf say "of all people"? Does he think Merry is the least likely to solve the riddle? Are the "simple" thoughts of hobbits underestimated?

The hobbits need protection yet again, when Orcs attack in the Chamber of Mazarbul. This time, both Frodo and Sam make good use of their swords, but Merry and Pippin are not reported as having assisted.

Heading away from Moria, we hear nothing from Merry. I was a bit surprised that Aragorn noticed Frodo and Sam were unable to keep up with the company, not the other two hobbits. When Aragorn halts to tend to Frodo and Sam, the mithril vest is revealed.

'I have often wondered what you and Bilbo were doing, so close in his little room,' said Merry. 'Bless the old hobbit! I love him more than ever. I hope we get a chance of telling him about it!' - Lothlorien

Here's Merry's curiosity again. Apparently he was watching Frodo and Bilbo, but didn't manage to suss out what they were doing.

3. If Merry had known, would your have expected him to keep that information to himself? What does Merry's delight in Bilbo's gift say about his affection for Frodo?

Finally, the remaining eight reach the safety of Lothlorien, the "secret woods" Gandalf mentioned. When the elf Haldir says he does not know where the havens of the High Elves lie beyond the land of the Halflings, Merry tells him:

'You out at least to guess, since you have seen us,' said Merry. 'There are Elf-havens west of my land, the Shire, where Hobbits live.'
'Happy folk are Hobbits to dwell near the shores of the sea!' said Haldir...'Tell me of these havens as we walk.'
'I cannot,' said Merry, 'I have never seen them. I have never been out of my own land before. And if I had known what the world outside was like, I don't think I should have had the heart to leave it.' - Lothlorien

4. Merry is far away from singing travelling songs in the cottage at Crickhollow! Does he mean it? Or is fear, sorrow and exhaustion speaking? Elrond made it clear that none of Frodo's companions were obligated to travel with him.

After the wordless interrogation by Galadriel, Sam says:

'She seemed to me looking inside me and asking me what I would do if she gave me the chance of flying back home to the Shire to a nice hole with - with a bit of garden of my own.'
'That's funny, said Merry. 'Almost exactly what I felt myself; only, only well, I don't think I'll say any more,' he ended lamely. - The Mirror of Galadriel

Now it's Merry deciding to keep his thoughts private, a parallel to Gandalf saying "'To the end of the journey - in the end."

5. Why would Merry not want to share openly after Sam did so?

When Celeborn gifts the company with elven boats, he says:

'There are some among you who can handle boats: Legolas, whose fold know the swift Forest River; and Boromir of Gondor; and Aragorn the traveler.'
'And one Hobbit!' cried Merry. 'Not all us look on boats as wild horses My people live by the banks of the Brandywine.'
'That is well,' said Celeborn. - Farewell to Lorien

6. Celeborn is polite, but perhaps not too impressed by Merry's claim to prowess. Is Merry hoping for a chance to be more pro-active again? Regardless, three boats are provided, captained by Legolas, Borormir, and Aragorn (not Merry).

When the company reaches Parth Galen, Frodo asks for some time alone. Boromir, lured by the Ring, sneaks off after Frodo. Aragorn, debating possible outcomes should the company separate, suggests:

'Boromir will return to his own city, where his father and his people need him; as with him the others should go, or at least Meriadoc and Peregrin, if Legolas is not willing to leave us.'
'That won't do at all!' cried Merry, 'We can't leave Frodo! Pippin and I always intended to go wherever he went, and we still do. But we did not realize what that would mean. It seemed different so far away, in the Shire or in Rivendell. It would be mad and cruel to let Frodo go to Mordor. Why can't we stop him?'
'We must stop him,' said Pippin. - The Breaking of the Fellowship

7. Notice that Aragorn says "Meriadoc and Peregrin" not "Merry and Pippin". Why formal names?

Elrond stated Frodo was on "the Quest of Mount Doom", so presumably Merry knew Frodo was going to head into Mordor eventually. Boromir tried to stop Frodo from taking the Ring into Mordor. And both Merry and Pippin want to stop Frodo as well. Sam is sure that Frodo will continue on into Mordor, and Aragorn agrees adding:

'I do not think it is our part to drive him one way or the other. Nor do I think that we should succeed, if we tried. There are other powers at work far stronger' - The Breaking of the Fellowship

8. So, if Borormir was acting under the malign influence of the Ring, were Merry and Pippin also feeling it's effects? Is their desire to "stop him" about friendship and love for Frodo, or is the Ring speaking through them? When Boromir reappears, and the company realizes Frodo is missing, Legolas, Gimli and the hobbits all run off to search in a panic. Are they all so senseless, or is the Ring at work?


Frodo and Sam take a boat across the river. Aragorn finds Boromir, dying after his battle with the Orcs, and learns that Merry and Pippin were taken captive.

Pippin regains consciousness in the Orc camp, and remembers:

Merry and he had drawn their swords, but the Orcs did not wish to fight, and had tried only to lay hold of them, even when Merry had cut off several of their arms and hands. Good old Merry! - The Uruk-Hai

He also thinks "What good have I been? Just a nuisance: a passenger, a piece of luggage. And now I have been stolen and am just a piece of luggage for the Orcs."
Keep this in mind, since I think Merry has similar thoughts in later chapters.

After Merry is awakened and salve slapped on his wound, and liquor forced down his throat, he comments:

'Hullo, Pippin! he said, 'So you've come on this little expedition, too? Where do we get bed and breakfast?' - The Uruk Hai

9. Does Merry seem to use a lot of exclamations?! Bless the old hobbit! And one Hobbit! We can't leave Frodo! Hullo, Pippin! Do the ! add to Merry's character?

Maybe it's due to cultural shifts over the (many) decades, but I'm noticing them a bit too often! The Hobbit, as children's literature, would use the exclamation point to remind readers to pay extra attention to dialog or events. But how do they work in LOTR?
Here's comments from a couple of authors about the exclamation point:

Terry Pratchett - Use exclamation marks sparingly! It's like wearing underpants on your head.
Elmore Leonard - Maximum 2-3 per 100,000 words.
Ray Bradbury - I mean, you don't just love people, you must LOVE them with exclamation points.
F. Scott Fitzgerald - Cut out all these exclamation points. An exclamation point is like laughing at your own joke.

Of course, hobbits do laugh at their own jokes!


10. Is his humor effective here? Where might Tolkien have experienced using humor in desperate circumstances? Call it gallows humor, or, if you prefer, self-enhancing humor.

Despite Merry's bravery with his sword, Pippin turns out to be the hero of this chapter. He manages to leave footprints, and an elven brooch as clues. He initiates the conversation with Grishnakh to try and engineer an escape during the attack by the Rohirrim. Merry tries to seal the deal:

'If we come to Isengard, it won't be the great Grishnakh that benefits: Saruman will take all that he can find. If you want anything for yourself, now's the time to do a deal.' - The Uruk Hai

It sort of works, as Grishnakh carries the hobbits further away from the Orc camp. Unfortunately, he does not plan to leave the hobbits alive. Fortunately, Grishnakh meets with one of the Rider's spears, and Merry and Pippin escape unnoticed. Pippin continues to be the hero of this escape, he's freed his hands, he has lembas bread hidden in his clothing, he uses Grishnakh's sword to cut their bonds.

After the escape, Merry says:

'Lembas does put heart in you! A more wholesome sort of feeling too, than the heat of the orc-draught. I wonder what it was made of. Better not to know, I expect. Let's get a drink of water to wash away the thought of it!' - The Uruk Hai

11. Do you like this as a set-up for what happens next when they drink from the stream within Fangorn?

Merry delivers a monologue:

'You seem to have been doing well, Master Took,' said Merry. 'You will get almost a chapter in old Bilbo's book, if ever I get a chance to report to him. Good work: especially guessing that hairy villain's little game, and playing up to him...I shall have to brush up my toes, if I am to get level with you. Indeed, Cousin Brandybuck is going in front now. This is where he comes in. I don't suppose you have much notion where we are; but I spent my time at Rivendell rather better. We are walking west along the Entwash. The butt-end of the Misty Mountains is in front, and Fangorn Forest.' - The Uruk Hai -

More hobbit self-enhancing chatter, during which Merry makes sure to recognize Pippin, and also makes a case for his taking over the leader role.

We have a new name for Merry (Cousin Brandybuck) and for Pippin (Master Took). Merry has several times talked about "my people" - at the edge of the Old Forest, approaching Bree, and to Celeborn.

12. Does 'Cousin Brandybuck' mean he's including Pippin in "my people"? And is 'Master Took' just chatter, or is Merry recognizing that Pippin has grown?

Merry's love of planning and learning is highlighted by his ability to place them on a mental map.

13. Based on recent events, does it seem Merry is at his best when he feels in control? He's a planner. When he's over his head perhaps he struggles? Pippin has shown he's creative in a pinch. But it was Merry who used his sword first.

 

[noWizardme]

Merry (and Pippin) are mentioned only intermittently in these sections of the book. I find it hard to tell whether I should read a lot into exactly who says or does what, or whether Tolkien is just prudently making sure everyone in the party is mentioned from time to time in case we forget they've come along.

I read Merry's tone as jocular. That's what I think all the exclamation marks are about! I think Tolkien was from a time and place when good humour - even if clearly a bit forced - was considered admirable. (Hence "A Scout smiles and whistles under all difficulties" Baden-Powell in 1911, or Kipling's poem "If--" )

And maybe there is something in it. Even situations where it is necesssary to be uncomfortable or tired for a while are better without peoeple moaning and complaining. But maybe only one-and-a-half cheers for that in a properly dangerous situation where we muct keep up each others' spirits, but where a leader can make lethal mistakes by not understanding the actual state the party has got into.

I remember being puzzled by why it was Merry who was "on the right track" about the doors of Moria. I had to go back and re-read. And in a 2015 discssion here I liked how squire put it:

‘What does it mean by “speak, friend, and enter”?’ asked Merry.

He doesn't ask what it says, he asks what it means. From his point of view, the inscription tells you to speak, but not what to speak. Gimli derails the question by taking the conventional interpretation that it is an invitation to speak a known password, and that gets Gandalf going on the same track as well.

Finally Gandalf realizes that Merry is right: the inscription is not self-explanatory. Why address the reader as "friend"? Why add that word?

Would Merry have solved the puzzle himself? Certainly not, he could only respond to Gandalf's erroneous translation of "Speak" for "Say". But as the folk-figure of the wise naif, Merry effectively corrects the wise but too-suspicious wizard.

(Later in that discussion - I say! back in the days when a Reading Room post could have over 100 replies! - we also noticed that writing the password on the door is maybe not as daft as Gandalf suggests: If you don't know the password already you have first to know how to reveal the inscription, and then you not only need to be able to read, but to read in Sindarin. It would be a bit like having your computer password on the notorious post-it under the keybpard, but the post-it has the password written in Cuneform.)

And Gosh - or as Merry might say, Hullo! - is it really eight years since I wrote this Moria Doors mathom? )


Odd maybe that the Fellowships mother-tongue Sindarin speaker Legolas doesn't say something a bout Gandalf's translation. But that would spoil an magnificently tense bit of the story.
And similarly, I agree - odd that it is not Merry or Pippin who notice that the wounded Frodo and Sam are struggling to keep up with Aragorn's forced pace as the party escapes from Moria. Given that the whole expedition is to get Frodo to Mordor, it's not clever letting him be the hindermost that the devil (in this case any pursuing orcs) might take. But I think this bit of the writing might be about Aragorn - setting up the strain for him of being forced suddenly to take command, and some cracks appearing among the Fellowship.

On that, I like this commentary, by "Never Felt Better":

Aragorn becomes straight minded and stubborn, his mind very firmly on the chase to the detriment of the company. Both Frodo and Sam could be seriously injured from their time in Moria, Sam’s cut being especially worrying. Aragorn is stepping up as the leader, but it is clear that he is a little flustered at this moment in time, missing very important things in his zeal to get clear of the mountains. It all works out, his skill in healing coming into play again, and the discovery of the mithril coat is a nice diversion, but it’s worrying: Aragorn is making mistakes and it won’t be the last time.

On Lothlorien, the new destination for the party, we learn little, which might rankle considering how it has suddenly come into view without much fanfare. It’s an elven kingdom, a mysterious place known far and wide as “perilous” for visitors. It’s more of that fear of outsiders stuff that was so evident in the Shire. Lorien is the country far away you know a bare smidgen about, and even that is distorted by time and lack of contact. But Aragorn remembers the place like it some kind of pleasant memory, so that’s enough to banish any fear the reader might be getting from the text.

Boromir is the obstacle again though, but he has some good reasons this time. He was the one dead set against Moria, and he was somewhat right. Now he’s being dragged into another place that he doesn’t like the sound of. Moreover, it does seem that, unlike Gandalf, Aragorn has made a kind of executive decision here, without consulting the wider group. [It might also be that Aragorn is remembering that it was Gandalf's plan to "go down the Silverlode into the secret woods" and a need to honour the Fallen Chief's plan is making him hasty - NoWiz.] Boromir’s whole attitude and character is summed up by his response to where else they could go: “A plain road, though it would led through a hedge of swords”. Boromir is a straightforward kind of guy, a leader of men who puts his faith in what he knows. He doesn’t like all of this mystery, the tramping through lost kingdoms. Boromir is beginning to tip further towards the dark place he’ll end up at the end of this specific book and the new leader of the group isn’t helping in some ways with his very testy response:

“‘But lore wanes in Gondor, Boromir, if in the city of those who once were wise they now speak evil of Lothlorien. Believe what you will, there is no other way for us – unless you would go back to Moria-gate, or scale the pathless mountains, or swim the Great River all alone.’

‘Then lead on!’ said Boromir. ‘But it is perilous.’

‘Perilous indeed,’ said Aragorn, ‘fair and perilous; but only evil need fear it, or those who bring some evil with them.”

It’s spreading too, the Fellowship being strained by the travel and the grief. As they cross the Nimrodel River, another opportunity for elvish myth and magic to be expanded in the form of a poem, Legolas is suddenly very mean-spirited to Pippin, telling him to “dig a hole in the ground” when the hobbit expresses reservations about sleeping in a tree. It’s really harsh and it’s only the start of a very arrogant attitude being expressed by the elf in this chapter. Perhaps Gandalf was the only thing holding the group together in a useful way. That sense of troubled minds and party members feeling hopeless continues throughout, giving “Lothlorien” an ambiance that at times approaches an unsettling place: Gimli’s utterance “Now long shall I journey ere I have joy again” is just one example.

That hopeless feeling might also be behind Merry's "I have never been out of my own land before. And if I had known what the world outside was like, I don't think I should have had the heart to leave it."

 

[oliphaunt]

Thanks for the research noW. Those past posts are perfect to re-read.

Of course the fall of Gandalf was a terrible blow to the company and drove Aragorn into a bit of a leadership crisis. Most obviously for Boromir, the Ring had a malign influence on his thoughts. We know that it was a terrible strain for Frodo. So, did the Ring also affect the others, perhaps in more subtle ways? Were they better once removed from the presence of the Ring?

Thanks for your comments about (!). Say 50 or 100 years ago, was there a different appetite for characters - in literature, or film, or day-to-day life - optimistic and even cheery in the face of adversity? Cue "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" from Life of Brian.

 

[noWizardme]

I think that if we see our heroes getting a little cranky in The Ring Goes South we are of course free to wonder whether the Ring is doing something (hold that thought!).

But, I think we also need to remember the natural strains they are under.
That's all set out in one of those compact passages Tolkien does so well:

“The first part of their journey was hard and dreary, and Frodo remembered little of it, save the wind. For many sunless days an icy blast came from the Mountains in the east, and no garment seemed able to keep out its searching fingers. Though the Company was well clad, they seldom felt warm, either moving or at rest. They slept uneasily during the middle of the day, in some hollow of the land, or hidden under the tangled thorn-bushes that grew in thickets in many places. In the late afternoon they were roused by the watch, and took their chief meal: cold and cheerless as a rule, for they could seldom risk the lighting of a fire. In the evening they went on again, always as nearly southward as they could find a way.

At first it seemed to the hobbits that although they walked and stumbled until they were weary, they were creeping forward like snails, and getting nowhere. Each day the land looked much the same as it had the day before. Yet steadily the mountains were drawing nearer. South of Rivendell they rose ever higher, and bent westwards; and about the feet of the main range there was tumbled an ever wider land of bleak hills, and deep valleys filled with turbulent waters. Paths were few and winding, and led them often only to the edge of some sheer fall, or down into treacherous swamps.

They had been a fortnight on the way when the weather changed....

The land and the weather will be milder now, but perhaps all the more dangerous.’ [said Gandalf]

‘Dangerous or not, a real sunrise is mighty welcome,’ said Frodo, throwing back his hood and letting the morning light fall on his face.'

So it has been grim - everyone constantly cold; daily hard physical labour and little sleep at odd times of day; the food unsatisfying even if it is not yet short rations; and a tortuous progress with frequent frustrating back-tracks (when the path "led them often only to the edge of some sheer fall, or down into treacherous swamps"). Add to that the constant worry of being spotted or tracked. Nor does the landscape offer much of interest to break the monotony or take your mind off the discomfort. Or to give much sense of getting anywhere.

I've never done anything so arduous, but even after just a day's hill walking in a cold wind I have come inside and realised how pleasant it is to not hear the constant noise of the wind, let alone feel its "searching fingers".

I feel sure this is the set up for Merry's joke about whether Strider is missing the East Wind.

The lovely bit where Frodo is glad of a sunrise makes me imagine that it has been constantly overcast too, which also makes people cranky.

Gandalf is certainly right that once they get to Hollin things will become all the more dangerous. I think that one of the strengths of the writing in this part of Book II is that the Fellowship keep worrying and discussing those dangers without ever being able to work things out. They just go round and round over who (if anyone) has silenced the birds and sent the crows and hawks. Or, who or what causes the freak weather on the Redhorn Gate. Or whether it is just weather and the birds 'nothing to do with us at all' (and the worries are just exhaustion and fraying nerves).


Worries (by the characters, by the reader) that the Ring is doing something are a condiment that can be sprinkled on that dish, or not.


Of course one the wolves attack the camp we do know that they've been found and the hunt is on.


Lastly, you mentioned Monty Python, Oliphaunt. I think that yes, they got a lot of comic material from sending up cliches of stiff-upper-lip manly British derring do. Their Ripping Yarns series, for example, I recall as being spoof versions of stories that just might have appeared 'straight' in adventure stories for boys from an earlier period.

 

[Ethel Duath]

Hopefully more later! (I've been living in a whirlwind, but I'm hoping it will calm down enough soon so I can post more.)


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'What is the matter, Strider?' Merry called up. 'What are you looking for? Do you miss the East Wind?' - The Ring Goes South
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1. Is Merry clever enough to question Gandalf but not bold enough to call out his lame answer? Is Merry observant enough to notice Aragorn is disturbed, but not aware enough to figure out why?

"We cannot look too far ahead," says Gandalf, following that statement. I think that explains why he was reluctant to fill-in the blanks, and why neither Merry nor anyone else challenged it. The very awkwardness of how he avoided giving any possible details, I think, would have impressed most of the listeners with the idea of how serious the situation is, if even Gandalf doesn't have the confidence to project into the future.

I think, however that Merry's "chaffing" (I think they call it) of Aragorn shows that he, and I think a lot of the others if not all have been overly soothed by the end of Gandalf's statement. I'm wondering if he was trying to avoid discouragement or despair by sort of negating the impression given by the first part of what he'd been saying to them: "There is a wholesome air about Hollin. Much evil must befall a country before it wholly forgets the Elves, if once they dwelt there."

But Aragorn, I think, wasn't really taking any of that to heart. Merry, however, didn't take Aragorn's mood very seriously, possibly giving more weight to Gandalf's apparent assessment.

2. Why does Gandalf say "of all people"? Does he think Merry is the least likely to solve the riddle? Are the "simple" thoughts of hobbits underestimated?

I always thought he was way too dismissive of poor Merry, but I think what was in Gandalf's mind was more along the line of who was more likely to have knowledge of ancient elves and their ways. Frodo and Bilbo might've been expected to have some idea, but the other three hobbits probably couldn't be expected to have enough relevant knowledge to be of help.

It is interesting though that Merry is the one to speak up, out of all of them.

 

[oliphaunt]

Aragorn, I think, wasn't really taking any of that to heart. Merry, however, didn't take Aragorn's mood very seriously, possibly giving more weight to Gandalf's apparent assessment.

Perhaps Merry, who has been learning about awareness from Aragorn, is trying to understand what has Aragorn concerned when Gandalf isn't. Of course, Aragorn turns out to be correct. This is the sort of skill Merry needs to learn - observing and acting - when you are in a situation that you couldn't plan for.

It is interesting though that Merry is the one to speak up, out of all of them.

Merry is smart, and probably more well-read than the average hobbit.

 

[oliphaunt]

It is interesting though that Merry is the one to speak up, out of all of them.

I've thought that, of all the hobbits, Merry is most like Tolkien. Here, he's a bit of a philologist. We've already heard his short lecture on the Old Forest and shall see if there are more to come. If interest holds out until Merry's life after the war, there are even more likenesses.

 

[Ethel Duath]

I hadn't thought of any of the hobbits being like Tolkien, but I can see your point.

 

[Ethel Duath]

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'I have often wondered what you and Bilbo were doing, so close in his little room,' said Merry. 'Bless the old hobbit! I love him more than ever. I hope we get a chance of telling him about it!' - Lothlorien
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Here's Merry's curiosity again. Apparently he was watching Frodo and Bilbo, but didn't manage to suss out what they were doing.

3. If Merry had known, would your have expected him to keep that information to himself? What does Merry's delight in Bilbo's gift say about his affection for Frodo?

Personally, I would have, but I'm not certain what Merry would have done in that situation. I do think he might have shared it with Sam or Aragorn, or possibly Gandalf, if he thought it would be of help to Frodo; but I'm sure he wouldn't have broadcasted far and wide and I wouldn't be surprised if he would actually have kept it to himself unless there was an extremely good reason in the moment not to.
I think Merry's delight in the Mithril coat shows both his sense of responsibility for Frodo, and the extent or rather the depth of his friendship, which really isn't spelled out the way it is with Sam; but this is an indication.


Finally, the remaining eight reach the safety of Lothlorien, the "secret woods" Gandalf mentioned. When the elf Haldir says he does not know where the havens of the High Elves lie beyond the land of the Halflings, Merry tells him:


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'You out at least to guess, since you have seen us,' said Merry. 'There are Elf-havens west of my land, the Shire, where Hobbits live.'
'Happy folk are Hobbits to dwell near the shores of the sea!' said Haldir...'Tell me of these havens as we walk.'
'I cannot,' said Merry, 'I have never seen them. I have never been out of my own land before. And if I had known what the world outside was like, I don't think I should have had the heart to leave it.' - Lothlorien
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4. Merry is far away from singing travelling songs in the cottage at Crickhollow! Does he mean it? Or is fear, sorrow and exhaustion speaking? Elrond made it clear that none of Frodo's companions were obligated to travel with him.


It's largely about Gandalf, I think. The grief for all of them was unimaginable, partly because the loss of Gandalf was unimaginable. To some extent, I wouldn't be surprised if all of them were feeling that way, even Aragorn. I don't think that Merry is changing his mind as to whether he would have gone with Frodo from Rivendell, which I think he would have anyway, even knowing everything that would happen to him and the others all the way through, but rather it was a wish that none of it had ever happened, or that he could have stayed blissfully unaware in the comfort of the Shire.


In addition, I do think that he's also expressing a profound disillusionment. He was probably expecting something similar to Bilbo's journey, only with more sinister enemies and more at stake. But I don't think he had any idea what "things were like out there," and rather than regretting joining the quest with Frodo from Rivendell, he was expressing that disillusionment with the world outside. I think his duty remain clear to him and he would have followed it.

The other thing I think about with this statement is how most of us will make extreme statements like that just to express our grief or despair, not because we really would have done anything differently. It's simply a very natural sort of that people say when feeling grieved or guilty or otherwise overwhelmed.
It's generally not the kind of thing we necessarily expect to be taken literally, although of course it can be meant that way if only in the moment.


After the wordless interrogation by Galadriel, Sam says:

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'She seemed to me looking inside me and asking me what I would do if she gave me the chance of flying back home to the Shire to a nice hole with - with a bit of garden of my own.'
'That's funny, said Merry. 'Almost exactly what I felt myself; only, only well, I don't think I'll say any more,' he ended lamely. - The Mirror of Galadriel
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Now it's Merry deciding to keep his thoughts private, a parallel to Gandalf saying "'To the end of the journey - in the end."

5. Why would Merry not want to share openly after Sam did so?

I think it was either something far more embarrassing than Sam's temptation, or his personality type didn't lend itself to revealing weakness. I'm not sure we know enough about Merry to be sure which it was, but I lean towards reasons of personality. I kinda would like to know what it was, though!

 

[Hamfast Gamgee]

Maybe Saruman. He was exerting a bit of a mental influence over matters so he could have created a bit of confusion and muddled thinking. Or possibly it was that vague fate thing which often appears in the tale. After all it was essential to the quest that the company where split. It wouldn't have done at all for all of them to go to Mordor. Far too big a group. In Merrys case was he actually fully aware that destroying the Ring was the main mission? Or if he was maybe in all the action he forgot. lI think that Merry was intelligent but up to a point. Maybe the compkete subtlties of Gandalf, Aragorn and Frodo where lost to him.

 

[CuriousG]

[size 2][/size]

[size 2]It is interesting though that Merry is the one to speak up, out of all of them. [/size]

Merry, "of all people": to my ear, this is the kind of teasing among friends that runs throughout LOTR, and Gandalf probably says it partly to tease the hobbits that they're "inferior," and partly to admit that one of the Wise should have figured it out before one of the, well, not-Wise.

Merry leading the way to solving the Hollin Gate's puzzle delivers a standout moment for his character, just as Pippin (who hasn't had a lot of page time since the journey to Crickhollow) gets more development, even if it's not quite as laudatory. I'm thinking of him dropping the stone into the well once they're inside, alerting the orcs (or whoever's making tapping noises) to their location.

There's also this contrast while they're trying to get inside:

‘What are you going to do then?’ asked Pippin, undaunted by the wizard’s bristling brows.
‘Knock on the doors with your head, Peregrin Took,’ said Gandalf. ‘But if that does not shatter them, and I am allowed a little peace from foolish questions, I will seek for the opening words.

Safe to conclude that Merry comes across as the wiser and more respected of the two, while Pippin is a loose cannon.

 

[CuriousG]

Just kidding!

'That's funny, said Merry. 'Almost exactly what I felt myself; only, only well, I don't think I'll say any more,' he ended lamely.

My take on this has always been that Tolkien started with the "simplest" person, Sam, and revealed his dirty secret temptation, and he was moving up the scale of sophistication, and the more sophisticated we got, the more complicated and damaging-in-revelation would their temptation be, so he's deliberately not telling us what Merry is concealing, wanting our gossipy hobbit minds to run wild with speculation.

It is a little hard to imagine, actually, since the hobbits are so virtuous, but to extrapolate from Sam's vision, I would guess Galadriel dangled all of the Shire before Merry's eyes, so he'd wind up as more than Master of Buckland when he came into his inheritance, and maybe she promised the Shire would add more colony lands too.

 

[Ethel Duath]

I hadn't really noticed that.
I do think that the "testings" by Galadriel were in keeping with the character, desires, and weaknesses of each Fellowship member, but only in regard to the quest. If Boromir's other most intense desire or temptation was for Ghirardelli chocolates, I doubt if she would have twanged that string in his psyche in these circumstances.

 

[sevilodorf]

Which comes true later because of the Ent Draught....

He and Pippin end up somewhere between 4' 5" and 5 feet. Taller than Bullroarer Took but shorter than Bergil son of Beregond. (Poor guy-- his friends teased him and called him Gerbil -- actually my brother did when he read the books)